Am I the only one who finds it very difficult (not hard) and stupid to dogfight other small ships in RES without Vulture? It hardly feels like a fight at all when I find myself constantly boosting away then turning 180 degrees and going back to shoot (I think it's called jousting). Either that or I have to backpedal which I find funny seeing NPCs do their normal scripted maneuvers but failing to get behind me. Fyi this happens no matter how many pips you have in engines, A or E ranked. Flight assist off often times makes you throttle in the negative due to how it works. Also, apparently NPCs can boost at their own defined amount. I can imagine actual pvp being just as boring.
Fighting without Vulture
- Thread starter Ichijo
- Start date
So are you saying people should minimise Vulture use, as it leads to skill decay?
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I think the skill curve on the vulture is quite different from most other ships. It becomes almost vertical at the very end where it takes extra-ordinary skill to eek out the full advantage of vulture, almost like a step function, where the trough of the step is still very capable.
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It is not necessary to back-pedal in other ships, it is often better to turn pure backpedalling into a combination of sideways strafing and backpedalling relative to your target and continuously adjust your direction. Pure backpedalling will leave you easily open to attack, unless you have a very tanky ship, it is not really a good idea.
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Jousting is better then backpedalling, but your load-out needs to reflect this. In a vulture you can easily keep any ship in your sights and the weapons that provide the highest sustained dps are best, i.e. 2 pulses. When jousting, you will have smaller windows of time where your target will be in your sights, so you will need higher power draw, burst weapons.
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I think the skill curve on the vulture is quite different from most other ships. It becomes almost vertical at the very end where it takes extra-ordinary skill to eek out the full advantage of vulture, almost like a step function, where the trough of the step is still very capable.
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It is not necessary to back-pedal in other ships, it is often better to turn pure backpedalling into a combination of sideways strafing and backpedalling relative to your target and continuously adjust your direction. Pure backpedalling will leave you easily open to attack, unless you have a very tanky ship, it is not really a good idea.
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Jousting is better then backpedalling, but your load-out needs to reflect this. In a vulture you can easily keep any ship in your sights and the weapons that provide the highest sustained dps are best, i.e. 2 pulses. When jousting, you will have smaller windows of time where your target will be in your sights, so you will need higher power draw, burst weapons.
Never had that issue, not even in the Federal Dumpship. If you can anticipate where the opponent is heading towards, you can get them in front of your guns.
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The federal dropship is actually one of the better ships for achieving this, you can drift circles around most ships.
I have never looked back to a vulture after upgrading to a python to be honest. Who cares if it has more agility, I can fire 3 pulses for more time than what a vulture can fire 2 and I also get diminished damage from smaller ship, thus that random eagle firing at me isn't that much of a deal when it comes to my shields and I want to focus on something bigger.
It seems a little weird, but the dumpship's slow speed actually helps in a close knife fight. The blue zone speed is only 65m/s, so it's like a turret in space. It's really hard for other ships to stay close to you and outside your fire arc unless they slow waaay down too.
Wait a minute, so the smaller weapon size damage penalty also apply to shields? That is just does not make sense
we seriously need a major weapon damage system remodelling here, that kind of system is way off from a space sim
Speaking of the federal dropship, have you noticed the small hardpoint bay doors on the nose?
I am using a Fer-De-Lance with experience in all ships pre 1.3 except Clipper and Dropship. As it is right now, unless you are in an Anaconda with a million turrets, a Python with 3 kick ass hardpoints, any sort of backpedaling will bring you the kill faster than jousting (which is so dumb) or any other way you have to kill. On a Vulture where the acceleration is so good coupled with a fantastic turn rate, the troubles I have with other ships are nonexistent. This is my gripe with the game. I have no problem with the lack of yaw movement despite being in a vacuum with near zero gravity but the combat aspect of Elite Dangerous is so unlike dogfighting (unless you are in a Vulture, one of the most agile and boring ships available ).
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I anticipate the Cobra flying above me and getting to my back. My options are:
1. Pitch upwards for 10 hours until it is within my sights, you can see your wake make a full circle like a rollercoaster
2. Boost away and turn back to shoot at which point you are at least 1000 meters, bad for shooting, most likely have to repeat over and over again until you win
3. Backpedal while pitching towards a direction, shoot and watch amusingly while the NPC is trying to get behind you
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Back-pedalling in a Python against a vulture that knows what he is doing will likely see you lose. A vulture can continuously boost turn twards your yaw axis with FA off, and it will keep you rolling and pitching trying to track the vulture. If you only have backward thrust direction while doing this, you are stuffed. You need to determine the plane the vulture is performing this move so you can put distance between yourself and the vultures arc or secant before it gets there so the vulture cannot put you on your yaw axis, or get behind you. This means using lateral thrust.
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No I have never noticed these before, good find.
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I'm talking strictly about PvE, against NPC. I am well aware that against a CMDR you must not do any sort of backpedal.
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Ah ok, I always assume people are referring to PvP unless they say otherwise. My fault in this case.
Wait a minute, so the smaller weapon size damage penalty also apply to shields? That is just does not make sense
No it doesn't. Only on hull.
I was killed by the station simply for loitering past 10 minutes back a month ago in a type 9. FD could have at least space towed me outside and given me a fine but they said you we don't care how much effort you've put in the game. I sold my stripped Python and made it to an FDL. I would be in a decked out Anaconda by now if not by horrible game design.
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I feel the reverse blue zone needs to be removed. Turning is half small thrusters and half vectoring of the main drives, hence why you turn best at half throttle. When reversing the main drives are off and all the small thrusters are busy accelerating you backwards. It doesn't make sense you can turn well going backwards and it kills the dogfighting feel of the game, that's for sure.
You lost 2 ships due to stupidity, nothing else. Stop blaming others for your mistakes. If you trip over your open shoelaces and hurt your head on the asphalt you can't blame the city for making roads so hard.
Actually only your reverse thrusters move you backwards. All the other thrusters still are free for maneuvering. But I agree still, it's kind of weird.
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Keep the weight down on the ship, run the best thrusters you can. Get use to using FAOFF to turn sharply. It will let you keep your sights on the enemy longer and allow you to turn inside their radius. It comes down to throttle manipulation and timing to fly effectively. It is possible though.