Fireworks and Lights Editor

[Tandurin]

I absolutely love the show controller parts of Planet Coaster and also RCT3 in the past.

It's something alongside coaster design that I can sink a lot of time into but I've honestly haven't bothered with fireworks displays in PC because I find it to be very limiting in what is available to us. And some fireworks don't really look realistic either.
Back in the RCT3 days we had the particle editor with which we could create our own fireworks based on a particle emission engine in the game, and it was brilliant. It allowed users to create their own fireworks and set which parts of the firework should be recolorable. (Often the glows of the original emitter particle)

On top of that we now also had the spotlights introduced into the game but the beams coming from them are incredibly thick in beam width and not very subtle making them kind of unusable for more delicate lighting effects for shows. And also there's no possibility to fade lights in (I understand this might introduce some serious recoding of the triggering codes to enable this). But these two points combined make a lot of things very limiting in Planet Coaster when compared to RCT3.

Now there's been some amazing showcases of Showcontroller shows in the community, and I can't fathom the hassle they have gone through to get any kind of decent results with the toolkit that's available to us at this point in time. Especially when years ago we managed to create shows that we're much more intricate than what we can do now.

For an example of what the RCT3 custom lights and fireworks editors allowed us to create have a look at this:

[video=youtube;hH4tZTREWeE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH4tZTREWeE[/video]

Both games have been developed by Frontier, so I really hope that we can get something similar or comparable to what we had in RCT3 in PC.

 

[Rocket_Man_Jeff]

I agree. As someone who shoots pyro in real life (including displays choreographed to music) I'd like to see this reworked as well. While RCT3 wasn't perfect compared to the tools pros have available, I thought it was a great mix of features for what the game was meant to offer. The sequencer aside, the launch of the shells isn't accurate, both in terms of animation and timing. I don't mean this as a criticism as I'm thrilled with the level of effort being put into the game. I only volunteer the information because I think with a few minor adjustments this feature could really become something great.

 

[Mangmod]

I miss the MixMaster system as well, I remember having a lot of fun making firework shows with RCT3. System in PC is fine, but a bit tedious to set up when there are many pyro and you would like a "timeline" system, with audio waveform for sync..
I think the old system was not used because of trademark issues (MixMaster had a "tm" if I remember correctly).

 

[Tandurin]

I miss the MixMaster system as well, I remember having a lot of fun making firework shows with RCT3. System in PC is fine, but a bit tedious to set up when there are many pyro and you would like a "timeline" system, with audio waveform for sync..
I think the old system was not used because of trademark issues (MixMaster had a "tm" if I remember correctly).

I'm not talking about the mixmaster system to be honest.
While it's kind of a nuissance to not have a visible timeline editor it's easily circumventible by categorizing your Show Controllers, and chaining them within each sub-group of effects.

I'm talking about the actual editor that would let you make and design your own lighting and particle effects. Like in the picture below.

 

[HeatherG]

I'm not talking about the mixmaster system to be honest.
While it's kind of a nuissance to not have a visible timeline editor it's easily circumventible by categorizing your Show Controllers, and chaining them within each sub-group of effects.

I'm talking about the actual editor that would let you make and design your own lighting and particle effects. Like in the picture below.
View attachment 3159

I really miss using that. It was perfect. So easy to get music to time with the firework show and also get fireworks lined up with each other. or if you just want to end some fireworks at the same time we could do that. I'm getting nostalgic!

 

[Baalduru]

I gave up on fireworks in Planet Coaster. I still use RCT3 for fireworks. I’m mainly interested in creating effects and not the shows.

I have FWSim and it is really easy to use. But it is lacking when it comes to the effect editor, and there are no plans to improve it. I tried sending suggestions for improvement, and was asked if I would be willing to help. I’m guessing he doesn’t have the time, to really do what he wants. That’s a shame because it really has potential.
After using FWSim to recreate real fireworks, including cakes, slices, sweeps and tubes, it is painfully slow going back to RCT3. It is a lot easier to think in terms of fireworks instead of particle systems.

I would like to see a proper fireworks simulator. Something with the versatility of the AFE but the easy workflow of FWSim. I even installed and played around with Unity, but it needs scripting in order to be useful, and I don’t know how to code.

Generally, I think Planet Coaster takes everything good from RCT and improves on it. I was hoping that would be true for the fireworks. It would be neat to have a standalone editor at some point.

 

[Rocket_Man_Jeff]

I really miss using that. It was perfect. So easy to get music to time with the firework show and also get fireworks lined up with each other. or if you just want to end some fireworks at the same time we could do that. I'm getting nostalgic!

I agree! Scripting an actual firework display in real life is tedious and time consuming. RCT3 found the right balance between ease of use yet still enough flexibility to be creative. Making MixMaster shows was fun - not work. I'd really like to see that functionality brought back. Along those lines, I'd also like to see more realism in the ground portion of the scenery pieces. Aside from the shell launchings not being terribly accurate, the physical racks and mortars aren't an accurate representation of what's used in real life. I know this is just a game, but given that so many other items in Planet Coaster are modeled with nut-and-bolt accuracy, I'd think the developers would do the same here too.

For those who have never seen inside an "average" professional fireworks display:

[video=youtube;wYH9kBuUmzg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYH9kBuUmzg[/video]

Watch on Youtube for proper 360 degree viewing.

 

[DisneylandFreak]

We need this timeline so baaad[haha][haha][haha].
I've been working on a 20 minute fireworkshow since the release of the game and without this timeline or the ability to group select and change properties of entire groups it's just horrible[sour]

 

[Baalduru]

While RCT3 wasn't perfect compared to the tools pros have available, I thought it was a great mix of features for what the game was meant to offer.

To be fair, the pro tools are not meant to simulate fireworks. Correct me if I’m wrong, but they are meant to build and export shows to firing systems. The way the firework looks is not that important. At least that is what I understand from communicating with the developer of FWSim. FWSim have no plans to improve the effect editor, because it’s not a priority for the professionals.

And to be fair to Frontier, the AFE in RCT3 was never meant to be part of the game, but something they gave us access to. But it took on a life of its own, like many other parts of the game. Making new effects and shows became a game within the game. People are still doing it to this day.

Some people recreate real world parks, rides and scenery. I like to recreate real world fireworks. While the AFE in RCT3 allows for a lot of versatility it is not user friendly. I could really use a copy/paste ability in the AFE and being able to reuse effects.

With the way they have approached the design part of PC, they seem to acknowledge that a lot of people don’t “play” the game, as much as they just build things. In my opinion they have found a really good blend of versatility and ease of use. I was hoping for the same when it came to fireworks. But I can understand if it is not first on the list. It would be nice to know that it is on their radar.

P.S. That is a really interesting video.

 

[Rocket_Man_Jeff]

To be fair, the pro tools are not meant to simulate fireworks. Correct me if I’m wrong, but they are meant to build and export shows to firing systems. The way the firework looks is not that important..

It varies by product - some are more involved than others. You're right though in that purpose of most pyrotechnics software products is to script a display. Some are able to be fired straight from a computer interface while others download the script to field modules. Many of them do have a visualizer to help get an idea of what things will look like, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a high-resolution model. The visualizers are more intended to help the designer gauge pacing, product variety, and that the script is firing the desired cues at the right times from the right positions. The latter is most helpful on complex displays being fired from multiple positions or where prefire times are involved for timecode/soundtrack synchronization. It's quite easy to accidentally misassign a cue! What you actually see on the visualizer screen varies by the quality of the shell models, but the end result is never intended to be a true simulation - only a tool to help the designer test the display or for marketing to give clients an idea of what things might look like in their display venue.

It sounds like you're more wanting access to model the shells to a much higher degree of accuracy than what's currently included (or to just make your own effects), while I and a few others just want a timeline editor that's easier to use than the current method for making a show. Both would be great additions to the game, and I'd think they wouldn't be terribly difficult to add.

Thanks! I'm glad you like the video. While it's not a complex display by any means I feel it's a good representation of what the average themepark or fairgrounds would include as part of nighttime entertainment. Obviously parks like Disney go way beyond this, but the nuts and bolts are still similar similar enough for a reasonable approximation. It also shows what the ground hardware looks like during use, just in case any developers are following along!

 

[Baalduru]

It sounds like you're more wanting access to model the shells to a much higher degree of accuracy than what's currently included (or to just make your own effects), while I and a few others just want a timeline editor that's easier to use than the current method for making a show. Both would be great additions to the game, and I'd think they wouldn't be terribly difficult to add.

You are right. I would like access to model the shells like we have with the AFE in RCT3. I got a little impatient with how slow it is to work with the AFE, so I switched to FWSim. It has a game version that is cheap. It is fun enough to use but it is more limited then the AFE. I would recommend it for anyone who likes the show building. It’s a lot easier and faster than the MixMaster.

I don’t spend a lot of time making the shows. I’m more interested in the effects. You can already share prebuilt shows; I would like to see the same for effects. I like to make them; maybe someone else can use them.

I don’t know how difficult it would be to implement. It seems like it should be easier than any other features in PC. It just requires a limited access to the particle system. That is how the AFE works. I guess I just assume they would be clever about it. I think they have been about all the other features. I have many ideas on how I think it should work, but I really don’t think they need any “help”.

You may be able to answer a question. FWSim has an online effect library. I made about 200 effects from an American wholesaler called Spirit of ’76. Are firework effects copyrighted? I thought about adding them to the database, but I don’t want to step on anyone’s toes.

I find the video interesting because it gets close to the launch. I use a lot of video, recreating effects but none are this close. I can see what the actual launch looks like.

 

[Rocket_Man_Jeff]

You may be able to answer a question. FWSim has an online effect library. I made about 200 effects from an American wholesaler called Spirit of ’76. Are firework effects copyrighted? I thought about adding them to the database, but I don’t want to step on anyone’s toes.

Good question, and a lot of it depends. The website you're referring to seems to sell mostly consumer-grade fireworks which are usually accompanied by nice box art and catchy names. While the true effect won't be copyrighted, the name on the box such as "One Bad Piggy" might be. In the world of professional items, the name of the product is almost always a description of what it'll be. For instance, you might find a shell labeled 8" Gold Kamuro or 6" Variegated Chrysanthemum, or a cake labeled 100s Blue Crossette with Red Tail. Any of those are industry-standard terminology and should be fine to use. You could maybe run into trouble citing a specific shell from a specific manufacturer such as naming something LITTLE BIG SHOTS 5" Ultra Salute (similar to how Planet Coaster won't actually name a ride B&M Hypercoaster despite the fact we all know what it is), but otherwise I don't see a problem so long as you keep with generic terminology. In the case of the products that have a real name, I'd just rename it to what it actually is. In the case of One Bad Piggy, something like 30s R/G Fan Chrysanthemum to Strobe w/ Mine would probably work. I'm not really an authority on the naming of fireworks - only shooting them - but hope this helps and glad to give you a useful video to reference!

 

[Baalduru]

While the true effect won't be copyrighted, the name on the box such as "One Bad Piggy" might be. In the world of professional items, the name of the product is almost always a description of what it'll be.

I better not then. I not only use the names but the product ID, since it makes it easier to find things. I always wondered how people get away with using copyrighted music in the shows they upload to YouTube, both real and simulated.

I prefer the more consumer oriented products. When I occasionally do make a show set to music, it adds a challenge to only use pre-made products. And everybody else seems to make the shells as big as possible so I thought I’d go in the opposite direction. I don’t think I have anything bigger than 3-inch shells.