First Discovery Tags

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
Yesterday we had that tag issue and it seems a lot of people were puzzled why these silly tags were so important to some people. Well, since I am some people, I decided to have a go at explaining why I do feel these are important.

First off, gather around the campfire and let Uncle Ziggy tell you a story when he was just a disco horn fumbling whippersnapper. After I went to the Backyard Nebulae, the Pleiades and the other lot, I decided to bridge the valley of the shadow of death towards Lagoon. I had just arrived there when CMDR Brennan posted a thread how he just sold 4000 systems for quite a bit of credits. He talked about how he was sorry he didn't records the systems. And urged me after I been to Lagoon, to go to Trifid and Omega, because he had enjoyed that trek.

The very next day, I am hopping and scooping and scanning along, and sure enough I stumble upon "First Discovered by CMDR Brennan". I post the system in the thread and it made his day. Afterwards I encountered a couple of other systems with his tag on it, and it always put a smile on my face.

Then of course there is the system right next to the Bubble Nebula, which was first discovered by CMDR Bubble. Which I got a kick out.

Then last week a certain Grumpy Badger commed me: "Who is this CMDR Insane feller having his tags all plastered on the system I was about to scan?"

These are for me enriching experiences in the game. Which add a character to yet another system to scan.

Then there are the personal reasons. Which are 50% roleplaying, and 50% egostroking, of which 50% is also roleplaying.

We're explorers who discover stuff. Edmund Hillary's tag is on Mount Everest for instance. Now out discoveries are of a much more humble nature and 99.999% of them will never be noticed by anyone else. Which doesn't matter. It's a discovery by an explorer and should be noted as such. However humble it may be.

But, there's this 0.001% who knows all about them, and that's me. I feel the systems which I scanned are special to me, since I was there first. I want to have my name graffitified all over them to acknowledge this.

Then there's the gameplay element. Why feel the need to paint all squares in a game a certain colour? Because that's the aim of the game. Why feel the need to paint all objects in a system with a certain tag, because that's the aim of my game. When I explore, I scan every object in a system, or I scan none. These are my personal rules. I don't give a hoot about Neutrons and Black Holes or that the system I just scanned with all kinds of pretty Jovians pays diddly-squat. I painted those planets red. I completed that system. I am a happy camper, record the system if it was really pretty and move on to the next.

We all make these gamey/roleplaying rules I believe, otherwise exploring does indeed become what they're percieved as by non-explorers. Hop in, get just close enough to valuable objects to scan them. Wait. Move to next object, wait, etc. For months these have been my rules, and removing my tags would mean that the evidence I have (for personal use) for completing sections of the game according to my rules are taken from me. My highscores are wiped. My magic sword of kick ass which I got for completing the quest has been taken from me.

You get the picture :)
 
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dannywhac

dannywhac
Agree, but on past experience (like last night), the threads gonna turn into a 'we do/don't need FD tags response and here's my reason why'. Might not though, but I've got my spangly pessimist hat on.
 

Katejina

Katejina
I really doubt it's intentional as some think it is. It would be just as easy to keep the "First Discovered by Commander" tag and then add a separate tag for "First Studied by" as well as a system-wide list of visitors. Until that list starts being thousands of name long, there should not really be much strain on the servers.

Exploration is partially pointless without those tags. Sure, systems are still nice to explore regardless and I would still do it without the first explored by tags, but proof that you were there is nice.
 

Bladesteel

B
Katejina said:
I really doubt it's intentional as some think it is. It would be just as easy to keep the "First Discovered by Commander" tag and then add a separate tag for "First Studied by" as well as a system-wide list of visitors. Until that list starts being thousands of name long, there should not really be much strain on the servers.

Exploration is partially pointless without those tags. Sure, systems are still nice to explore regardless and I would still do it without the first explored by tags, but proof that you were there is nice.
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The system already knows every system a player has ever visited, and everything he/she has scanned. (Otherwise no way to correctly update numbers on statistics and know what to show as scanned in system map)

But, showing a full list of visitors wouldn't work well. Imagine how long that list would be for the starter systems, I'm guessing it would be enough to be a really bad idda on slow or metered connections.
What I would like to see is a list of systems I have visited, and option to highlight or exclude them on galaxy map. The client could maintain that list locally and would only need to fetch from server after reinstall (or logging in from another client)
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
dannywhac said:
Agree, but on past experience (like last night), the threads gonna turn into a 'we do/don't need FD tags response and here's my reason why'. Might not though, but I've got my spangly pessimist hat on.
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I'm fine with that. Nothing wrong with opposing ideas, as long as there's understanding for the reasoning behind them. I made this thread to create that understanding in those opposed to First Discovery Tags. Doesn't mean they have to agree with me. :)
 

dannywhac

dannywhac
Ziggy Stardust said:
I'm fine with that. Nothing wrong with opposing ideas, as long as there's understanding for the reasoning behind them. I made this thread to create that understanding in those opposed to First Discovery Tags. Doesn't mean they have to agree with me. :)
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Completely agree - wasn't trying to be a poo-poo :) Well, maybe 0.1% of me was, as it's been a loooong day of watching a machine dig trenches with nothing in 'em.
 

deathmagnet

deathmagnet
I hate exploring, but i did it anyways, just for the permanent mark aspect. Are there people actually requesting tags to be removed? I think that would be silly. I was happy to hear when they added that feature.


Edit: it's actually what made me go out....reluctantly...lol
 
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Himilco

Himilco
I go exploring because I can. To see things that interest me. To avoid The Bubble. To make a few credits when I'm not trading. We all have our reasons for going.

I'm in the minority, I guess as I'd do those things with or without "discovered by" tags. *shrug*

This game is large enough to suit everyone's tastes and goals. I think it's why I'm so utterly fascinated with it.
 

b0rg9

b0rg9
I try to temper my feelings regarding the FDT's by saying, "Eh, no biggie". But if I'm intellectually honest with myself they are sort of a big deal.

When I was young and (more) stupid, we'd go spelunking in the wild caves of southern Indiana. We'd get the maps from the university geology library and other sources and explore miles of already "tagged" cave system. Once in a blue moon though we'd find a passage that wasn't on the map. Those were always cool.

Don't know where I was going with that, except maybe finding that untagged place, especially along otherwise traveled and mapped ways, is that same cool feeling.
 

chesdj

C
Just my tuppennce worth:

I've been out there, scrawled my 'Tag' on some systems nothing special, to be honest, some of them are like the rougher cul-de-sacs on a sink estate. :)

But if someone take the times to wander out there and actually 'discover' the planet etc. For them to have that feeling that you've recorded your name somewhere in the game for evermore is quite important, be in a ELW or just an iceball in the end of no where...

Surely that's what exploring is all about? That little @Ches@ 'tag' is worth much, much more than any Credit bonus to me.
 

Oopsie Daisy

O
So.... ego. That's basically what you are all saying. I get that. And of course I feel the same way too.

But now let's think about the game and not just ourselves. Since I already went over it in another thread, I'll just quote myself.

HairballHacker said:
... I think the whole "first discovered by" thing is detrimental to the game. I think FD could use this opportunity to remove it from the game altogether.
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HairballHacker said:
It also doesn't make sense in the context of turning in data. One has to imagine that the factions don't share data at all. But what happens if you and I both "discover" the same system and turn in our data to the same faction? Why do we both get paid? And if I turn my data in to a different faction? Then what does the "first discovered by" even mean? For it to have meaning then different factions must be sharing data.

Not to mention it is a disincentive to new and future explorers.

It basically rewards people who had the opportunity to play this game earlier than others. So backers. I've already written about that special snowflake mentality in another thread so will restrain myself now.

Get rid of it I say. FD, now is your chance.
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HairballHacker said:
I am not saying that FD should not keep a record of who visited what and when. They probably should and it should be available for players to read (i.e., the "history books"). I'm just saying the tags (seen via the system scan) should go. If the game devs want to encourage the sense of immersion and sense of discovery that exploration has to offer, then they should be removed because it's discouraging to new people, or so I imagine, to start exploring only to quickly learn that your visiting of a system is nothing new (and given the number of reps I have received for my comments on this topic, others seem to agree). Yes, there are 400 billion systems blah blah blah. But it is those relatively few systems a few hundred LYs around Known Space that actually matter as they are the systems that new players will be exploring first and the "400 billion systems" argument applies much less to them and only becomes more relevant the farther out you go. And the problem only gets worse with time. Just because something is currently in-game does not mean it has to stay in-game.
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Flame away.
 
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Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
HairballHacker said:
So.... ego. That's basically what you are all saying.
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Hmmm ...

of course in order to create understanding one should actually read what someone has to say. If all you got from the OP is: ego, then you certainly misunderstood me.

Maybe you need it to be ego in order to make your quotes look relevant?

edit: By the way, since you value reps it seems, you should read the OP more carefully :)
 
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Oopsie Daisy

O
Ziggy Stardust said:
Hmmm ...

of course in order to create understanding one should actually read what someone has to say. If all you got from the OP is: ego, then you certainly misunderstood me.

Maybe you need it to be ego in order to make your quotes look relevant?
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Not just the OP, but others. It's what "all" refers to. It doesn't take a genius to read between the lines.
 
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