First time I'm really angry about this game...

The ingame description says that the Viper is a ship which was clearly designed for combat and they say it is very good at it. Now, why can everybody (not NPC) who flys a Cobra (which is supposed to be a multi purpose ship) outfight me with no problems... I mean it has almost the same turn abilities as the viper, it is faster, it has more armor and it has better weapon hardpoints. So what is the point of buying a ship which was clearly designed for combat when a freakin cargo-fighter mix up can beat it easily???... god damn I'm angry:mad:
 
Not really no... I was just pointing out that the viper as a combat ship is less combat ship than a multipurpose ship...
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
I don't think a standard Cobra is faster than a standard Viper, prepared to be corrected on that one. The chances are that the people you have come across have upgraded their core system so that they have more power, better thrusters and better recharge/power distribution. They do have more armour as standard as they are more of a multi-purpose ship as you say, but they couldn't match the firepower of an equally kitted out Viper I doubt. Also the weapons on a Viper are positioned closer together and so they track better if you use gimballed weapons.

I understand your frustration, but I'm not too sure how well placed it is against the Viper itself... Could just be me though ;)
 
maybe they have armor upgrades and better weapon mods?? also when turning in a dog fight throttling down quickens your turn radius. I am always throttling up and down in dog fights.
 

Harbinger

Volunteer Moderator
Can't say I've used a Viper since I tested it in Beta 1 (it was a bit too fast for my liking back then). Are you sure it's not just a loadout limitation in the current implementation? The default loadouts of vessels is generally pretty poor and when you get upgraded thrusters, power distributors and a sufficient power plant to handle these upgrades the ship performance improves greatly in combat.
 
I prefer the Cobra for combat because the higher tiered guns are clustered on the nose rather then the wings like in the Viper's case and it can take more hits. Gimbals help you there with the Viper the rest is being able to outfly the guy in the crosshairs. Also don't forget the Viper is a much lighter ship than the Cobra so the survivability isn't as good meaning you gotta always be on the move.
 
The ingame description says that the Viper is a ship which was clearly designed for combat and they say it is very good at it. Now, why can everybody (not NPC) who flys a Cobra (which is supposed to be a multi purpose ship) outfight me with no problems... I mean it has almost the same turn abilities as the viper, it is faster, it has more armor and it has better weapon hardpoints. So what is the point of buying a ship which was clearly designed for combat when a freakin cargo-fighter mix up can beat it easily???... god damn I'm angry:mad:

In Beta 2.0x I specced up a Viper and it was awesome, this time around I have a Cobra and though I have specced it up, it is nowhere near as manoueverable as the old viper was, I could turn so sharp it told me I was exceeding the structural capacity and the screen started to go red as in a "red out" Can't do that in my Cobra (yet)

Maybe they have dumbed it down in Beta 3.0x for some reason
 
I've always thought the viper was a tougher ship than the cobra. When it comes to NPCs flying them, I'll take on an NPC in a cobra more than I'd take on one in a viper.
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Player controlled ones are a different matter. It really is all about skill and who's the best pilot when matched against one another. And that's what makes the game good :)
 
Well dont get me wrong, I know how to turn tighter or generally how to fight in this game... also I have some good performance upgrades on my ship (except thrusters, couldnt find them anywhere).
I have also a pretty good combat flight sim career (IL 2 sturmovik etc.) so basically I should know how to dogfight (hope this doesnt sound narcissistic)
 
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The stock Viper in my opinion is not great. But modded up with gear? With the right pilot the thing can be an animal. I prefer a kitted out Eagle. And don't knock the Cobra man, it is a good ship. It's armour is thicker, better shielding, can mount weapons with a larger kick and can out run a Viper. It's a combat ship with the added benefit of an actual cargo hold you can trade with. I kitted my Cobra out strictly for combat after finishing trading with it. I am content now until the 22nd release of Gamma.

Plus are you using just a keyboard and mouse? As you will be suprised the performance gain from using a controller in combat situations. A keyboard for me was too clunky during combat so I set my xbox one controller up to the pc, made combat alot easier.
 
Discounting the more than likely possibility of going up against a ship with better equipment, you're running into the individual strengths of a ship.

A Viper has higher straight-line speed than a Cobra (all other things being equal, i.e. A-level thrusters), but a slower turning radius at a given speed. It does therefore require different tactics, commonly referred to as "zoom and boom". This means using your high speed to open up the distance to a point where you can turn around to face him while he's still chasing you, passing at high speed and inflicting what damage you can, etc. Repeat until BOOM. It will help to fit weapons on your Viper that work best at longer ranges, and for you to practice using them that way. If you prefer up-close turn-fighting, I'd recommend flying an Eagle or Cobra. FWIW a well-piloted Eagle may look flimsy but can be a force to be reckoned with.

The same way you shouldn't get in a turning fight with a Zero if you're flying a Corsair, play to the strengths of your craft, and the weaknesses of his. The reasons for these tactics are different from an atmospheric aircraft battle, but they are still valid in 3D space combat.

EDIT: The zoom and boom tactic should be used because as a faster ship you have a constant "energy advantage" over your opponent in the Cobra. This is the common terminology that will point you to these tactics in most flight-combat instructional guides. Energy advantage in atmospheric flight is gained with altitude over your opponent, along with aircraft performance. Removing the gravity and lift mechanics in space actually simplifies the rules and should help making tactical styles easier to choose in the heat of battle.
 
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Some points: stock viper vs. sup'd up cobra, average pilot vs. deadly NPC (i.e. uses flight assist off to turn much harder, boosts away when shields are down turns and fights when shields are up etc)...this would make life difficult. Ships can be merely looked at now as different shells, with different: hard points, container slots, tonnage and cockpit layouts.
 

Lestat

Banned
Well I going to have to agree with the other people. Upgrades note you did point out you had basic Thrusters. Now other people pointed out Armour and weapon load out. Which can also factor into this. Plus the skill of the other Pilot.
 
In Beta 3.05 the Viper and the Cobra have the same exact abilities per mounting weapons. The Viper is much faster but the Cobra is larger thus it will take more hits to take out the shields and hull. The Viper is a hit-and-run with less hull and shields. You cannot afford too many hits. It's speed is your advantage. It is all about your piloting skills and how to use them effectively. An expert with a Viper could easily take out every Cobra and even larger ships. An expert with a Cobra could take out any ship. It is not what you fly but how well you fly it.
 
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Dude, if the Viper had the jump range of the cobra, it would be my target ship! Viper is simply awesome, i havent lost a single fight in it and im crap at shoting...
 
I've used both ships (fully upgraded) pretty extensively and have a fair amount of PvP experience.

In my opinion, the Viper is the marginally better fighter. However, it's also less forgiving than the Cobra, and less intuitive for novice players to fight in. If you simply try to out pitch your opponent and don't have a very firm grasp of thruster use, you will die.

The Viper is much faster but the Cobra is larger thus it will take more hits to take out the shields and hull. The Viper is a hit-and-run with less hull and shields.

Cobra is actually faster over any but the shortest distances.

Viper and Cobra have almost the same hull strength.

Dude, if the Viper had the jump range of the cobra, it would be my target ship! Viper is simply awesome, i havent lost a single fight in it and im crap at shoting...

I don't find 14.7 Ly to be too prohibitive.
 
Cobra is superior in all aspects from basic equipment to highly upgraded.
Viper got severely nerfed and the zoom and boom concept is no longer a valid tactic. Turning performance is poor and even upgraded it's nothing to get excited about.
Compared to the performance the Viper has traditionally had in previous versions of Elite and ED the current setup really needs another look at.
 
The same way you shouldn't get in a turning fight with a Zero if you're flying a Corsair, play to the strengths of your craft, and the weaknesses of his. The reasons for these tactics are different from an atmospheric aircraft battle, but they are still valid in 3D space combat.

EDIT: The zoom and boom tactic should be used because as a faster ship you have a constant "energy advantage" over your opponent in the Cobra. This is the common terminology that will point you to these tactics in most flight-combat instructional guides. Energy advantage in atmospheric flight is gained with altitude over your opponent, along with aircraft performance. Removing the gravity and lift mechanics in space actually simplifies the rules and should help making tactical styles easier to choose in the heat of battle.

In connection with which, here is one of the best flight-combat guides around for 3D gaming:
In Pursuit - A Pilot's Guide to Online Air Combat
 
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