Ship Builds & Load Outs Fit for getting into Combat?

[Gavin Burke]

Hey, I've done mainly exploring and trading so far in my 6 month long Elite career, with most of the combat rank (99% Novice so almost competent ) coming from Skimmers or by killing targets that police are already hitting

Could anyone suggest a decent build that an unskilled pilot could use?

I've got up to 10mil I'd be willing to spend, I did look at an A-rated Imperial Courier (not quite there with Empire rank yet) which had like 500-600MJ shields, 1 beam laser and 2 missile racks...??

Builds I generally build for PvE combat have lasers with MC or missiles, then the internal slots is generally one shield with the rest hull reinforcements so it's super tanky and I hunt at beacons or low sec sites, hence no need for a decent FSD (keeps cost low with a D rated) or any FSD interdictors etc., then my utility slots would be a point defense with the rest shield boosters

 

[goemon]

hey,

i think there are three good possibilities.

1. an eagle - if you don't mind to die often in the beginning. you can't tank in an eagle, and it isn't very fast - so you have to learn flying evasive and to think ahead. i personally learned combat in an eagle, and i learned good manners of it.

2. a viper mkIII - much more tanky, and faster. still not expensive at all.

3. a DBS. it is especially great if you want to learn fix weapons, because of its excellent hardpoint placement. tip: fit at least 1 small fixed beam laser, which will work as a laser pointer for your other weapons

courier is an amazing ship, too.

as for learning:

- start with normal NAV beacons, proceed to RES, HIGH RES, comp nav beacons, HAZ RES, HIGH CZ.

- find the power to fit a-class sensors, because that will allow you better situational awareness

- if you are as bad as i was in the beginning, fit 1 small beam laser TURRET - i had severe problems to know in which direction to turn my ships nose, and turrets allowed me to focus on flying the ship instead of aiming, while the beam laser gave me an idea in which direction i should be facing.

- constant pips management, throtte and usage of lateral thrusters

- generally speaking i would suggest using a laser/multi-cannon combo in the beginning - MCs are low skill weapons, which allow you sustained combat. missiles are great, but especially seekers won't teach you a lot. when you feel comfortable with lasers/MCs give all the other weapons a try - like frags (i fly a all-frag courier for exampel), cannons, railguns...

___

here an exampel build of a viper: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/vip...0300B4m5m50125.AwRhrSuo.Aw19kA==.&bn=Starters

 

[Gavin Burke]

Cheers for that, I currently have four ships I called my "combat", which is Eagle, Viper mk3, Viper mk4 and a DBS, maybe I should've posted my fits too see if any of them are "decent"?

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/eag...03B4272569.Iw1/EA==.EwBj5BGaJI==.&bn=My Eagle

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/viper/2p6t6F6l8dasdf227270p0p030529B42769.Iw1+kA==.IwBj4yyA?bn=V

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/vip...05462b29m5272725.Iw18UA==.IwBj4zKA.&bn=Tanked (not sure why I gone all thermal on this one!!)

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/dia...422929m3.Iw1/kA==.IwBj4yKA.&bn=Fighting Scout

 

[noldunar]

This would be my suggestion for a Viper III combat build for RES sites and Nav Beacons (not Conflict Zones):

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/vip...35325.Iw1sAxkA.MwBhCYy6ZI==.&bn=Viper lighter

It is lighter and faster than your build. Some points:

I replaced the beams with pulse lasers so you can fire lasers together with multi-cannons for a longer time (less distributor drain from the pulses) and don't have to split your DPS. I would wait until the target is at 1000 meters or less distance, keep it in the lower part of the cockpit (because of the hardpoints underneath the ship) and open up with all weapons.

The higher the class of the Hull Package or Module Package, the worse the weight to health ratio. Therefore I would stick to class 1 or 2 packs which offer the most hitpoints per tonne of weight. Use shield cell banks instead to keep your shields up instead of tanking with the hull. Have only one cell active and switch between them when one cell is empty (switch it off and the other one on). You can fire the cell at 50% shield strength and have a large enough safety margin and won't waste MJ of the cell by overcharging the shield.

If you keep your shields up you don't need point defence. Chaff instead to reduce incoming fire and the KWS to earn more money.

The Viper is a great ship.

 

[noldunar]

My Diamondback Scout suggestion:

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/dia.../kA==.MwBhCYy6bI==.&bn=Fighting Scout lighter

Lighter and faster but still durable.

Going all thermal an a ship with a 3A distributor is not a good idea, especially not with bursts and beams. Power hungry, you can't keep the damage up for long, especially not if you also need some pips in shields or engines.

 

[Ceekay]

I'd agree with other replies start with Eagles, Vipers and DBS they are different though with varying levels of speed, agility, firepower, defensive capability......etc, the iCourier is one I just ranked up enough to buy and it's a combination of most of the best parts of the already mentioned ships.

Here's some builds I been trialing, I'd initially intended using a 3A enhanced thruster but although it did add some additional speed over a G3 DDT modded 3A it lost some agility (optimal mass bites back I guess ) so I've gone with the G3 DDT modded 3A for both builds.

"Heavy" build

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/imp...5WBnYPjPLMIiAKT+M2ABAMpD6/wjAAAA&bn=Courier H

"Light" build

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/imp...///MImcEGBj+/2fAAgDlRinEKAAAAA==&bn=Courier L


In the end there's only 4 T between them and the L can fit a PA if required (assuming no low emissions mod to the powerplant), they're both great little fighters with well balanced abilities although for longer trips I'd usually fit additional tanks

 

[Gavin Burke]

This would be my suggestion for a Viper III combat build for RES sites and Nav Beacons (not Conflict Zones):

Looks like I'll give this one a shot nice shield boosting, I've never used SCB's before, do they just need mapping to a fire button, and I guess another firegroup too given I'd need SCB1, SCB2 and then MC/lasers mapped??

My Diamondback Scout suggestion:

I always wondered why a DBS would go over the Viper when they have the same hardpoints...

I'd agree with other replies start with Eagles, Vipers and DBS they are different though with varying levels of speed, agility, firepower, defensive capability......etc, the iCourier is one I just ranked up enough to buy and it's a combination of most of the best parts of the already mentioned ships.

I'm not yet at the iCourier rank and my combat builds very rarely have cargo and definitely never scoops (only use for exploring out the bubble), I fight within a system for a certain faction so only travel is between station and beacon/sites so don't really use FSD Interdictor either

 

[goemon]

I always wondered why a DBS would go over the Viper when they have the same hardpoints...

- hardpoint placement
- more utilities
- plenty of power
- more speed if fitted heavy (larger thrusters)
- better lateral thrusters and decelleration - better manouverability
- second best heatcapacity ingame, in case you like to run double railgun or double plasmas.

 

[Gavin Burke]

- hardpoint placement
- more utilities
- plenty of power
- more speed if fitted heavy (larger thrusters)
- better lateral thrusters and decelleration - better manouverability
- second best heatcapacity ingame, in case you like to run double railgun or double plasmas.

Oooh, I did have a fit from a ship with 3 medium hardpoints that was 1 beam and 2 railguns, 3 shots later I'm at 120% heat!!! So that's good to know, where (other than the forums) would it show me how good a ship is for heat capacity, ideal hardpoint placement etc.?

That's where I struggle to know if my fit is good or not because the only numbers I really understand is the main bar along the top of coriolis (speed, hull, shield, DPS, jump range etc.)....

 

[goemon]

Oooh, I did have a fit from a ship with 3 medium hardpoints that was 1 beam and 2 railguns, 3 shots later I'm at 120% heat!!! So that's good to know, where (other than the forums) would it show me how good a ship is for heat capacity, ideal hardpoint placement etc.?

That's where I struggle to know if my fit is good or not because the only numbers I really understand is the main bar along the top of coriolis (speed, hull, shield, DPS, jump range etc.)....

- as for heatcapacity: nowhere, beside the forums: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/286628-Research-Detailed-Heat-Mechanics

- as for hardpoint placement: deploy hardpoints, and use the debug cam to get an idea where they actually are ...

- as for detailed speeds and turntimes: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=182465

... but generally you'll get that impression fast when you actually fly a ship. any ship has an unique fly-model, and in most cases your first try will say: this sucks. but after 3 or 4 rounds in a RES, you'll have the idea what could work. then play around with weapons ...

everybody will find his own way to play along the strength of a ship: some use the courier as a shieldtank, other use its speed and manouverability for longer distance battles, and i use its mental decelleration/acceleration to get really close with my frags and move out of weapon range till they are reloaded... any of these strength are obvious when you fly the courier for an hour or two. that's not really about stats

 

[Ceekay]

- hardpoint placement
- more utilities
- plenty of power
- more speed if fitted heavy (larger thrusters)
- better lateral thrusters and decelleration - better manouverability
- second best heatcapacity ingame, in case you like to run double railgun or double plasmas.

I do agree with all the points you make but I've found the Viper has better survivability (may well be down to my piloting skills or lack of ) as it's smaller and I believe accelerates faster than the DBS

The builds are very similar apart from range and cost but speed, agility and DPS are pretty close

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/dia...91904040403B402242h.Iw1/kA==.Aw1/kA==.&bn=DBS

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/vip...9190303B40229242h.Iw19kA==.Aw19kA==.&bn=Viper

 

[Gavin Burke]

but generally you'll get that impression fast when you actually fly a ship.

Yup, I love the Eagles "spinny" ability, the DBS feels awful to try turn, so slow, carries on for too long after I've stopped telling it to turn etc.. whilst the Vipers (either mk) feels quite nicely in the middle, just ofc lacking the nippiness of the Eagle. I think when I went from Sidey to Cobra I felt the same DBS feeling, maybe I've just flown an Eagle into combat way way too much and espect all ships to be nimble :|

 

[goemon]

Yup, I love the Eagles "spinny" ability, the DBS feels awful to try turn, so slow, carries on for too long after I've stopped telling it to turn etc.. whilst the Vipers (either mk) feels quite nicely in the middle, just ofc lacking the nippiness of the Eagle. I think when I went from Sidey to Cobra I felt the same DBS feeling, maybe I've just flown an Eagle into combat way way too much and espect all ships to be nimble :|

yeah, eagle isn't to beat ... besides a lightweight courier maybe

 

[StiTch]

I do agree with all the points you make but I've found the Viper has better survivability (may well be down to my piloting skills or lack of ) as it's smaller and I believe accelerates faster than the DBS

The builds are very similar apart from range and cost but speed, agility and DPS are pretty close

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/dia...91904040403B402242h.Iw1/kA==.Aw1/kA==.&bn=DBS

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/vip...9190303B40229242h.Iw19kA==.Aw19kA==.&bn=Viper

DBS/Viper is pilot choice between speed and utility/durability. I personally prefer the DBS, but there's very little you can't gleam from their differences by looking at the ship stats. The only thing that paper stats won't reveal between the two is the amazing heat handling the DBS has.

However I will 100% put my vote into iCourier. IMO it's one of the most perfect ships for players looking to develop combat skill. It has a high speed even for a small ship, three C2 weapons are effective, it handles well without being too twitchy and most importantly boasts shields that most medium ships could be proud of.

It's like having that low-cost fragile Eagle that doesn't matter if it dies, only it's not fragile.

With PE thrusters you can start off with a fairly bulky build and as you get confident or just want to change things up, shed weight, enjoy the massive speed boost and use evasion tanking to help you survive.

 

[Gavin Burke]

besides a lightweight courier maybe

Something like this? https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/imp...6004027m3535325.Iw18UA==.IwBj4zKA.&bn=Shields

 

[StiTch]

Something like this? https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/imp...6004027m3535325.Iw18UA==.IwBj4zKA.&bn=Shields

All about PE thrusters.

Do you intend to do any engineering? Basic engineering can provide a massive benefit if you know what to go for.

 

[Gavin Burke]

All about PE thrusters.

Do you intend to do any engineering? Basic engineering can provide a massive benefit if you know what to go for.

What are PE thrusters, those Peformance Enhanced ones that cost 1000% more for 10% more speed??

I have a few engineers unlocked and a full 1000 of decent materials so yes, engineering is an option (i.e. my engineered exploration Hauler: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/hau...bwMjAIgaT+/2fACwDno9+wUgAAAA==&bn=Exploration)

 

[StiTch]

What are PE thrusters, those Peformance Enhanced ones that cost 1000% more for 10% more speed??

Though I am master of sarcastic commentary and Overlord of Passive Aggression myself, you might want to check statements like that against someone offering help.

PE thrusters cost ten times more yes, but where did you get 10% increase from? My only thoughts is that you tried it on a build like the one you just put forward, which has all the mass management of a sumo wrestler.

My iCourier boosts around 700 m/s and can manage faster. If that appears 10% faster than the build you just suggested...well, I suggest you go back and study maths again.

For a newer player, that should retain some level of bulk, I might recommend something akin to the following:
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/imp....H4sIAAAAAAAAA2MS/cLIwCBi8R8EGOAAABuZ7cQXAAAA

I can give a more detailed breakdown if needs be, but with half intelligent mass management you can easily have a durable yet zippy ship. I have never seen anyone dare to approach a post-2.1 iCourier with HRPs, but look at this - with no mass reducing mods, 480 m/s boost speed with just a G1 clean drives enhancement and a hair's width under 700 hull hp. The mass-free "heavy" duty armour mod will improve this further, as would more efficient HRP setups.

And this is about as slow as it gets. With better mods, and with the confidence to start taking them HRPs out, the 600 to 700 m/s boost speed range is easily achieved despite the durability. That's over 150% the speed of a non PE iCourier.

 

[Gavin Burke]

PE thrusters cost ten times more yes, but where did you get 10% increase from? My only thoughts is that you tried it on a build like the one you just put forward, which has all the mass management of a sumo wrestler.

Yep 10% more on one of those Viper/DBS builds, maybe one of mine, hence I though the gains were minimal, though 5mil for class 3 thrusters seems alarmingly high given all the builds so far have been cheaper than 5mil in the entriely.

Does that massive boost in speed also do the same for turning speeds?

- - - Updated - - -

I have never seen anyone dare to approach a post-2.1 iCourier with HRPs

Apologies again for any saracastic-sounding comments but what are HRP's?

I do of course appreciate all the help as the most combat I can get about with at the moment is following the police in Nav Beacons and helping finish off ships to get bounties....

 

[StiTch]

Does that massive boost in speed also do the same for turning speeds?

They're a step up in cost but you can still expect a smaller ship with them to have a reasonable rebuy. Don't forget to buy as much as humanly possible from LYR space.

The boost does also pertain to turning speeds but it isn't directly proportional. To be honest I am kinda glad - if the pitching increased as much as the speed does, you'd probably find the ship too twitchy to aim comfortably for fixed weapons. Alongside FA Off, a competent pilot can move an iCourier very effectively indeed both in speed and in manoeuvres.

PE thrusters are much faster but much more mass sensitive - see the lower optimal mass. This means that mass you add slows it down faster. A heavy build will gain very little over using normal thrusters. Luckily the iCourier is naturally very light, so you have an immediate advantage/reprieve in outfitting it.

This is why I put a 2A shield on the proposed build. The iCourier handles its own mass so well that the 3A shield gives it almost nothing extra, but the extra 2.5T will typically kill over 10 m/s speed.

Apologies again for any saracastic-sounding comments but what are HRP's?

No sarcasm here, the 10% comment just came across as crude....my bad, the wonders of internet comms Hull reinforcement packages. You were using them before

On smaller ships, stick to low-class HRPs if possible. They double in mass per class increase but get less than double health per class increase. The hp to mass ratio is much better on the lowest class of HRP available.