fix unequality after destruction

[simonlange]

After destruction of the ship. bounties ON ME and CHARGES against me still exist. Okay so far so good.
But if THAT - then i DO EXPECT that my verified bounties i did earn so far are paid too! its just unfair that i have to pay any charges against me after desctruction while e.g. 1.2million credits are gone. the bounties we do collect are IN THE SYSTEM, they are NOT written on "paper" which goes down with the ship. so i do expect that the same system which does remember charges against me does remember bounties i did earn too.

so fix this asap. fmpov this is a bug because no logical person could had wanted this unequality in the game.

Simon

 

[graham.reeds]

There has to be consequences. If you are taking a beating, run.

 

[Flimley]

I agree. It's not like the space cash is teleported inside your ship.

 

[Blackfoxx]

Seems fair to me that if you are not alive to collect on the bounties you were carrying markers for then they should be nulled out. Its what makes us take that extra care while out there farming for bounties. We get a fine? we pay it off asap.. if we run with the fine on our head then we accept this risk and carry on.. but we know we have bounty kills at stake that we haven't took back yet.

With the system of being able to get a fresh ship with the modules in it from insurance, there has to be a mechanism to increase the risk.

Explorers have this problem too, they can be out there for days/weeks at a time exploring and if they get killed before registering their discoveries, they lose all the data, and they have far more time sunk into their activity so stand to lose much much more. They do however know the risk, and they often fly with no guns, and with low-weight ship internals for extra jump range.

 

[FrankusSupremus]

I don't actually think that is fair, to be honest. It's not like cargo, that obviously is destroyed when your ship is destroyed. Exploration data could be explained away as being scanned by the ship's computer, so it can be "expected" to lose it if the ship is destroyed. But Bounties are won by the pilot, not the ship, and the pilot lives, isn't that the idea? If your ship gets destroyed somehow, you lose all the bounties you hadn't collected yet, but you DO for some reason need to pay to reload your multi-cannons. :S The insurance pays for a half loaded gun?

 

[Blackfoxx]

and by your own argument for explorers.. your bounties get recorded by your ships computer so it can be "expected" to lose the record of said bounties if the ship is destroyed. Having things this way made me fly more cautiously and monitor my damage more because i knew what i stood to lose if i pushed things too far. I think there has been a few too many easy-mode changes this last week or two, so i would prefer the risk that is in now to stay. just sayin.

 

[FrankusSupremus]

That's not the argument I'm making. A computer, a black box, whatever device it is, would be required to scan and store exploration data. Thus if that device is lost, the data would be lost. Bounties on the other hand are basically legal documents or awards. The computer doesn't cash them in, they aren't awarded to the computer. I don't consider it a matter of difficulty, more a matter of logic within the gameworld. Like I said, you already pay for your ship and all the components if you die, and you also have to re-pay to reload your gun. I can see why they make you lose bounties when your ship is destroyed (So that like you say, you should be cautious to a degree when constantly engaging in combat and it should have consequences if you do) but I just find it a tad odd that it happens.

 

[Gold Member]

That's not the argument I'm making. A computer, a black box, whatever device it is, would be required to scan and store exploration data. Thus if that device is lost, the data would be lost. Bounties on the other hand are basically legal documents or awards. The computer doesn't cash them in, they aren't awarded to the computer. I don't consider it a matter of difficulty, more a matter of logic within the gameworld. Like I said, you already pay for your ship and all the components if you die, and you also have to re-pay to reload your gun. I can see why they make you lose bounties when your ship is destroyed (So that like you say, you should be cautious to a degree when constantly engaging in combat and it should have consequences if you do) but I just find it a tad odd that it happens.

I think a simple change as you requested would lead to unintended consequences in player behaviour. I think you make a valid point, especially about the one way nature of it - if you die keep the bounties and charges but lose any credits you are owed for other bounties.

That tells me a lot about your play style. If you could keep the bounties that were owed to you after you died, I could see groups of griefers in wings purposefully using a sidewinder as a suicide ship. I'm sure there are other creative uses for a play style that includes thinking that dying has no consequences because you can always pick up another sidewinder...

If the game were also changed so that if you had enough credits to buy the last loadout or already owned any other ship, anywhere, then you weren't given the option of getting a free starting ship. I think more changes would be needed but that is a good place to start.

For now, dying does have consequences and that is a good thing.

 

[simonlange]

well nobody DIES. its just the DESTRUCTION of the ship. learn the difference.
second: its simple - no bounties after destruction or all of them. but only those n my head but not those i did collect? thats unequal treatment and should be fixed asap.
third: the stupid argument that with equality masses of ppl would buy a sidewinder... that nonsense. they wouldnt barely get any bounty with a sidewinder in an amount that would pay out such a "tactic".
forth: the bounties you do get r NOT stored in the ship. they are stored on the network. they are verfied kills/destructions and due the character of "verification" it is not ONLY local stored. thats why its logical that after destruction the living pilot may still get a reasonable amount of his collected bounties. Or to take an existing example: NOONE would question chris kyle's 160 verified kills in the field just because hes dead. Well, thats reality and in this game - sorry - at least i expect the same logic and fgs we do not even talk about "dying" we talk about "living" pilots.

Simon

 

[FrankusSupremus]

I think a simple change as you requested would lead to unintended consequences in player behaviour. I think you make a valid point, especially about the one way nature of it - if you die keep the bounties and charges but lose any credits you are owed for other bounties.

That tells me a lot about your play style. If you could keep the bounties that were owed to you after you died, I could see groups of griefers in wings purposefully using a sidewinder as a suicide ship. I'm sure there are other creative uses for a play style that includes thinking that dying has no consequences because you can always pick up another sidewinder...

If the game were also changed so that if you had enough credits to buy the last loadout or already owned any other ship, anywhere, then you weren't given the option of getting a free starting ship. I think more changes would be needed but that is a good place to start.

For now, dying does have consequences and that is a good thing.

I see that you edited the part where you called me a griefer. I have ZERO idea why you felt that was necessary or why you think you know anything about my "playstyle". I'm only pointing out that losing bounties when your ship is destroyed makes no sense in-game, particularly when you have to re-buy the ship with a half loaded gun.

 

[graham.reeds]

well nobody DIES. its just the DESTRUCTION of the ship. learn the difference.
second: its simple - no bounties after destruction or all of them. but only those n my head but not those i did collect? thats unequal treatment and should be fixed asap.
third: the stupid argument that with equality masses of ppl would buy a sidewinder... that nonsense. they wouldnt barely get any bounty with a sidewinder in an amount that would pay out such a "tactic".
forth: the bounties you do get r NOT stored in the ship. they are stored on the network. they are verfied kills/destructions and due the character of "verification" it is not ONLY local stored. thats why its logical that after destruction the living pilot may still get a reasonable amount of his collected bounties. Or to take an existing example: NOONE would question chris kyle's 160 verified kills in the field just because hes dead. Well, thats reality and in this game - sorry - at least i expect the same logic and fgs we do not even talk about "dying" we talk about "living" pilots.

Simon

Its a game mechanic. Deal with it. Don't fly with millions in unclaimed bounty and don't duel to your death.

 

[Argyris]

The way I see it the bounties you claim for destroying a pirate ARE NOT submitted to some kind of omnipresent "network" (Galnet?) because if they were there'd be no reason why you should have to dock at a station to cash them in and you could just receive insta payment instead. For all we know they are reserved / noted down in your ships computer using some sophisticated certification and encryption algorithm to prevent tampering with the system. In the case of a ships destruction that data is all gone.

Provided the above attempt of an explanation is applicable I honestly don't know how to explain the fact that the bounties which have been issued on you can remain persistent after your death because that information would also have to be stored locally in a similar way. The only way it could be different would be if someone learned about your bounty by scanning you and relaying that information to Galnet upon the next dock at a station when it would become a permanent record. If it were like that all you had to do to prevent your bounty becoming common knowledge would be to immediately kill all witnesses to your crime before they can dock anywhere.

 

[simonlange]

Its a game mechanic. Deal with it. Don't fly with millions in unclaimed bounty and don't duel to your death.

the cause of desctruction (NOT DEATH! learn the difference) is not the topic here. its the unequality of treatment AFTER destruction. so i see you got no argument why there should be an unequality of treatment. great.

 

[simonlange]

The way I see it the bounties you claim for destroying a pirate ARE NOT submitted to some kind of omnipresent "network" (Galnet?) because if they were there'd be no reason why you should have to dock at a station to cash them in and you could just receive insta payment instead. For all we know they are reserved / noted down in your ships computer using some sophisticated certification and encryption algorithm to prevent tampering with the system. In the case of a ships destruction that data is all gone.

well if that would be true then explain why i cannot receive payment for bounties i did (alone) but it happened that im wanted becuase some flew by intention into my firing line. so? your logic would mean that i still get the money because the destroyed ship WAS wanted and i did destroy it and since i made it back to the next station i should get money for it.
oh wait, no becuase the netword DID record it as it does record it when the bounty as valid.

makes no sense at all. confirmed bounties are confirmed bounties and they should be payed - even after destruction. if not then they should not dare to try to get bounties on my head too.

If it were like that all you had to do to prevent your bounty becoming common knowledge would be to immediately kill all witnesses to your crime before they can dock anywhere.

wont work. in one mission i had to kill the feds of a independent system. i "killed" all of them. no witnesses. but guess. there was a plain 60kCR bounty on my head.

 

[graham.reeds]

the cause of desctruction (NOT DEATH! learn the difference) is not the topic here. its the unequality of treatment AFTER destruction. so i see you got no argument why there should be an unequality of treatment. great.

'A dual to the death' was a common occurrence back in the middle ages when a noble man felt slighted. I used the term 'Dual to your death' as a play on words.

Still doesn't change the fact that a) you chose to fly with 1.2m in unclaimed bounties and b) you got beaten by someone better than you.

If you had chosen to cash in your bounties we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Argyris]

well if that would be true then explain why i cannot receive payment for bounties i did (alone) but it happened that im wanted becuase some flew by intention into my firing line. so? your logic would mean that i still get the money because the destroyed ship WAS wanted and i did destroy it and since i made it back to the next station i should get money for it.

There is another discussion about the whole bounty and fines issue going on where I made a suggestion how the system could perhaps be fixed: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=126891&p=1991610&viewfull=1#post1991610

wont work. in one mission i had to kill the feds of a independent system. i "killed" all of them. no witnesses. but guess. there was a plain 60kCR bounty on my head.

I know it wont work but I think it should because I agree with you that there are quite a lot of inconsistencies in the current system.

It's also conceivable though that it's your own ship computer uploading the information about your own crimes when you dock at a station. (I actually doubt it's that well thought out)

 

[Robert Maynard]

so fix this asap. fmpov this is a bug because no logical person could had wanted this unequality in the game.

To change the game so that bounty vouchers survive ship destruction would create rather than remove an inequality. At present all roles are treated equally, i.e. traders / pirates / miners / bounty hunters / explorers lose their cargo / booty / refined commodities / bounty vouchers / exploration data when they lose their ship.

 

[Rosenkranz]

I've heard it said that death settles all debts. If getting killed wipes all unclaimed bounties you've rightfully earned, then it should also clear all bounties against you. I mean, obviously someone cleaned your clock. That should count for something.

 

[staysa01]

I've heard it said that death settles all debts. If getting killed wipes all unclaimed bounties you've rightfully earned, then it should also clear all bounties against you. I mean, obviously someone cleaned your clock. That should count for something.

I'd rather see bounty vouchers survive death but have increased cost for death. It would increase the viability of long trips. The current way of bounty hunting is pretty stifling.

 

[kneecaps]

The system works, it doesn't have to make sense, it's the game. If you get to keep your 10 million bounty by making a suicide run then it's not really such an achievement. The challenge is getting in and getting out alive. Dying shouldn't be part of the plan.

Makes sense that you should keep your wanted status too...again if dying is an option to clear your record of horrendous crimes, you'll just just killed rather than pay the fines....