Fixing a ship close to death, the Movie Myth - suggestion to make it real?

This is the hallmark moment of most action hero movies where they are pushed beyond breaking and they are about to loose, and they have that look in their eyes of "not today".

But this is especially a hallmark of space-ship and robot movies, almost the "quintessential" experience,
where the metal can take more of a visceral deformation than their biological counterparts -> physical explosions, laser slicing, metal shearing/wrenching/twisting.

From Red-Dwarf, Robocop, Das-boot, Battlestar, Short-Circuit2, Terminator, heck even the wing-commander movie.
Torn chasis's, holed-hulls, leaking hydrolics, surviving on back-up batteries, and crew members struggling to breath on air that can't be recycled.
lead to the best come-back-revenge stories of all, as somehow power is re-routed and leaks patched, and they come back to take on the big bad, and accomplish all they couldn't do in a fully functioning version.

As exciting as this story arc is, it's a myth in the gaming world.

Very rarely in a game (privateer/elite/Iwar), does our ships get to to the point where we can "barely" function.
If you get beaten to that position, it's because you've already lost 97% of the battle, usually to an overwhelming force (or you weren't paying attention ;))

Where in movies/TV the ship powers down, and Captian-Kirk/Picard will have to use guile and a trick by hailing their aggressors as a distraction as scotty/data pull a rabbit out of their hats.

By this point we are litter-ally at the mercy of our assailants mercy, we've technically lost, and all that's left is to die - one trigger click away, and no one in the real world (of a game) would hold back.
Barely anyone (except maybe Isonona and the Captains of World War 2) are that insanely chivalrous.

We barely have time to "calmly" shut down and repower up modules,
let alone go outside and patch up the ship.

Typing out a "wait, I recant my previous message of bravado, I shall of course give you my cargo.....please ignore that surge in my frame-shift drive that your scanners just detected" isn't on the list of things to do.

The list is short, "die" and you don't even usually have time to realise it's happening.


Does anyone have any suggestions to somehow, get this "in-game" and make it authentic, not forced.


The only thing I can think of is an unplaned, emergency jump -> unless your jump-drive is offline.
as you hull hits a certain level, your ship automatically powers off weapons, and spools up the jump-drive.
And it may not even have a destination, just the nearest gravity well or to the furthest one, or even dumping you between systems, where you shall be deposited with the offline FSD engine, a hangover and a repair bill that makes you want to self destruct.

Now as cosy as this sounds, all I can think about are
  • exploits
  • breaking canon
  • game balanse


IF the ship is capable of doing this, why don't we emergency jump (Double J tap) all the time? Where's the "cons".

Also you could be on the path of destroying a ship yourself only to see it jump away willy-nilly.
or you're about to land the killer shot, and they land a blow that takes yourship beyond the threshold and boom you're whisked away.

Will our ships just power down at hull-zero and not explode. forcing us to repel borders or activate self-destruct???
 
Ive had some moments where this could hqve happened had i had repair kit on board.

Shot to poop and spinning in space the enemy chased me but couldn't hit me, my engines were out n i had to self destruct. So it is possible. Would have been cool to hqve a mini game where i could use a hydro spanner to fix the drive n jump out :)
 
FD have plans to give you at least some of this, where you can cannibalize other parts of your ship to restore minimal function to something vital, and we already have, as Dominico mentioned, the AFM module that can repair ships systems.

I'm pretty sure, reading between the lines of some of the things Sandro has said on here, that they too want the kind of "feel" to a scenario that you describe. So long as they do it right, I'm prepared to wit for it :)
 

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The game mechanic is not there and I cannot see how it can be.

It worked in digital integrations Tornado. My god, the hours I spent nursing a Tornado on 1 engine with flap damage, dead gear and failing nav kit. Bleeding fuel. Trying to stay under the radar.

Some of my personal epic game play moments to this day.

Just can't see it for ED.
Shame.
 
The game mechanic is not there and I cannot see how it can be.

It worked in digital integrations Tornado. My god, the hours I spent nursing a Tornado on 1 engine with flap damage, dead gear and failing nav kit. Bleeding fuel. Trying to stay under the radar.

Some of my personal epic game play moments to this day.

Just can't see it for ED.
Shame.

The devs already stated that they will include more in-depth system failures and things like fuel leaks. The closest thing we have at the moment is thruster's and FSD dropping off line temporarily when damaged. The FSD is the worse, trying to get home 1000LY+ with a faulty FSD is not fun.
 
I think implementing an electrical bus system that maybe plays into the heat mechanic would add an interesting aspect to failures. So instead of a just losing a bus maybe let damage raise the heat level that module puts out. You could swap modules around to different buses on the priorities page. So a damaged bus A can't run engines and lasers so you have to shut down some systems on bus B and swap the lasers to B after A was damaged. Etc would need a lot of balance and testing to be done right though.
 
The game mechanic is not there and I cannot see how it can be.

It worked in digital integrations Tornado. My god, the hours I spent nursing a Tornado on 1 engine with flap damage, dead gear and failing nav kit. Bleeding fuel. Trying to stay under the radar.

Some of my personal epic game play moments to this day.

Just can't see it for ED.
Shame.

Yeah I kinda agree, one bullet takes out a fuel line whether it is 1% damaged or 100% it isn't going to work anymore. If you lose 70% electrical power it doesn't mean that everything is working but it's close to failure, it means you only have 30% power to work with. There are also no redundancies with limited backups so there are no choices to make. And if any of these were implemented the fight would be over very quickly after the shields pop because whoever gets those first couple of hits is gonna start crippling the other and any advantage they had will quickly be stripped as they lose power or systems or runaway heat generation kicks in.
 
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Although the Automatic Field Maintenance Unit can now repair Sensors (mandatory for getting docking clearance) and Thrusters (that used to be different as well)...

It's still far from "Automatic".
I would like to see that Device kick into action indeed automatically when a System fails (0%) that it can repair.
Thus - giving your Ship a brief period of a complete System Failure, but regains some minimal emergency functionality within 10-15sec of the Repair kit kicking into action (without having to manually fiddle with the Modules Screen and doing it yourself - after all you'll likely got other stuff to do at that moment).

You don't want that, seriously. You have limited resources in the AFM and having it kick on to repair a damaged system that you can get to a station without, use up its resources and then later be left with insufficient supplies to repair your thrusters or sensors would monumentally suck.
 
I have been wanting more of this type of thing to be introduced.

What we would need for it is options when in cockpit to modify/repair ship or systems. That might be in the form of a module or backup systems you can install, but could also come down to your pilot skills/experience in some way. There could be things you simply cannot repair, but might be able to circumvent functionality to allow you to get home to a station for repairs. I also like the idea of more Han Solo type custom mods for their ships, where you can improve or change how your ship works.

I would also like to see a new category of slots introduced for modifications and enhancements to your computer systems. These maybe along the lines of an R2D2 type AI unit to help maintain and balance your ship (automating some things even), it might recalibrate your specs in a certain way or add new functionality (new program downloads) or even download mini-games for those on a long exploration run. :) Programs could be upgraded to higher levels, traded or sold and something that requires a lot of travel around to find the best programs to install into your ship. It might even allow for more extreme things like modding an external bay to use an internal component or simply change the UI HUD colours (rather than doing it manually via the ini files). Could really be used to make your ship unique and in terms of the OP post add a lot of options to utilise when the hits the fan.
 
The AFM uses a lot of juice too.
Not something most ships will be able to have switched on all the time unless set up for trading.
I imagine trying to use one in combat would be extremely difficult!

I'm hoping by the time we are walking around our ships that some sort of manual bodging and fixing is implemented. Again it's not the sort of thing that I'd imagine is very easy to pull off in combat :p
 
The game mechanic is not there and I cannot see how it can be.

It worked in digital integrations Tornado. My god, the hours I spent nursing a Tornado on 1 engine with flap damage, dead gear and failing nav kit. Bleeding fuel. Trying to stay under the radar.

Some of my personal epic game play moments to this day.

Just can't see it for ED.
Shame.

Oh happy days those of D.I.'s Tornado! You must be an original Elite player?

As for our 33rd century ED. If your ship gets damage light years out from a station. It seems logical that we would don our Remlocks and get outside to fix the ship! I know I am already wearing 90% of the space suit. ( nicely drawn btw)

So here's another "feature" that could be added? I am determined, one day, I will get to actually see my ship from the outside. That is excluding an out of the body experience after being sliced and diced by a Thargoid!
 
I really loved one time when i was bounty hunting NPCs and an anaconda without shields was almost dead but not as dead as i thought ... managed to escape with 2% hull and no life support and I had fuel for one jump. 7 Minutes. So I go to the next system only to forget that it was one that was 1000ls from the jump point.
The seconds were counting down and as I pressed on, to reach the station, I realised that I was going too fast. My windows were broken too and couldn't see the AR data on my window , in a complete panic I managed to do a quick loop and drop supercruise near the station, I had a bit more than a minute left.
In a moment of despair I see that the station in question is a Coriolis that faces on the other side - red lights everywhere . I boost as much as I can, scratching the surface of the station as it rotates then a 180o turn and finally see the letterbox but my oxygen is going red - I know if I boost with my cobra I die so I just decide to pass the letterbox with full throttle. I am sure that I don't have the time to land properly but I still don't give up, I am ready for a crash landing with 90% chance to explode as I touch the dock

I press forward to pass the letterbox as I come diagonally approximately 30o misaligned in both axis ... bouncing mildly at the bottom first and then as I try to rotate and align the ship I bounce a bit harder at the side and top, I am waiting to loose control and see the explosion of death...but the hull took the crash. Oxygen is red but can't read the number in that speed ... last ten seconds.

I still spin a bit while trying to read the numbers, busy station, just to realise, for the first time, that inside the dock there is atmosphere! The counter stops.
In a moment of excitement and inaction because I was waiting to die, I lost at least one precious second just to realise that i was going with 300m/sec? to hit the back wall ... reverse thrusters - landing gear - parachutes - managed to stop just a few meters before the wall, I stopped there for a moment and landed in the slowest and safest manner.
So for those 'mature' players who played beck in the day 'Elite' that is as far as excitement can go without some heart condition start kicking in : )
I never attacked an Anaconda after that, let's call it a phobia : ) That was Das Boot for me ...
 
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I think it could be done the same way as the assassin's creed game with pirates in it. If you want to pirate a ship you have to disable it and reel it in, either with a magnetic grappler, tractor beam, cargo hatch docking collar, whatever, just so that you can't kill them if you expect to get anything. No more of this shoot the cargo hatch or limpet launching malarkey, that just encourages whacking the pinata to beat out as much as you can before it breaks. You should have to disable the ship, latch on to it and force the hatch to deliver its goods, then make your escape before the victim gets their thrusters online. Eventually this can open the path towards boarding hostile ships when we get walkabout mode, so I see it as an essential link on the chain if they want this kind of action.
 
I'd fully agree concerning unessential Subsystems - but kicking in i.e. for 0% Sensors or especially on 0% Thrusters (which would be dead for that time anyway) IMHO would be very helpful.
Thrusters would be something I'd need working anyway.

Right. Maybe it's just me but if there's resources to prioritize I want to be able to set those priorities. If the unit is going to kick in automatically I want to be able to configure its priorities very precisely - telling it which systems to auto-repair, in what order, how much of its resources to devote to the a particular subsystem, max % to repair to before stopping to conserve resources etc. Otherwise I'd prefer to control it manually.
 
It would be nice if ED could do a quick beta to test the concept:

When your hull hits zero - Your ship just turns off and not explode.

giving pirate a chance to fly and target your cargo hold without problem, and extract your cargo.

With no way to "escape" nore do you "die"
you are forced to scuttle your ship if you wish to deny them,
or attempt to repair it by canabolising modules as mentioned before
or let a field repair unit do the job, and let you limp back to a station for repairs (and a huge bill).
 
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By this point we are litter-ally at the mercy of our assailants mercy, we've technically lost, and all that's left is to die
...
Does anyone have any suggestions to somehow, get this "in-game" and make it authentic/QUOTE]
You are aware that the movies you cite are supposed to depict the 0.01% occurences? And that in all the other 99.99% that's exactly what happens - they die? So yeah: Elite has it 'authentic' already.

Not saying that ship repair wouldn't be nice (especially hull repair for the explorers). But if you are too far into a battle without realising you should have pulled out then you should die without any last second chances. Otherwise: how will you learn?
 
You can acheive it to a degree with damage that accumulates over time. Fuel leaks, hydraulic leaks, electrical failure that eventually starts a fire. The combat is over, but you still have problems that are going to get worse. The first world war flight sim Rise Of Flight has a brilliant damage model. You might have defeated your foe and thought you got away with it, then a few minutes later notice your fuel is dropping, or you may have come away with a wobbly bit of wing that's fine until you pull out of a shallow dive or pick up more speed and a bit more falls off.
 
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