Newcomer / Intro Flight Assist off!

Xanderous

Xanderous
So Ive been playin ED for about a month and scouring the web for tutorials and all information relatd to it. There seems to be a general consensus when dogfighting that one should use Flight assist off Now I play with a stick and for the life of me I cannot figure out why. I have a lgitech with throttle and yaw built in so, i feel its very easy to keep a target in front of me. I can rise/fall, yaw, roll, pitch, and forward/backward all HOTAS. My throttle midpoint is zero so, to keep a target in front all I do is modulate my throttle between positive and negative and it always works.

Now, I have a kitted out Viper and decided to play with flight assist outside of a station for about 30 mins. I feel that FA off IS how a spacecraft would probably behave in real life. It was fun to rotate and match the rotation of the station without input, and to try and rotate on multiple axis' at the same time, but other than that novelty, I dont see how it would help in dogfighting. Yes, I give an input, then I have to take it away. Not to mention that i have to HOLD Z therefore taking away my ability to slew left and right or modulate throttle. What key feature am I missing? That makes this more beneficial than normal mode?
 

Trashberg

Trashberg
The FA-Off improves maneuverability, which can be crucial in a dogfight. I haven't got the hang of it really yet, but if you master FA-Off combined with thrusters and boosts, you have an advantage over vessels fighting with FA-On.

Try it yourself, time a full 360 pitch with both modes (in variuos speed settings) and you should notice a difference in favour for FA-Off. The trick, I think, is to work more with your throttle. Don´t set a fixed speed, that just makes your engines fire until you reach top speed in the direction you're facing. Instead, get some momentum and then set throttle to zero, then work with thrusters, boost, pitch/roll and small adjustments with throttle to change direction.

Check out Isinona on Youtube, that's some seriously skilled FA-Off flying.

Edit: Oh, and there's an option in the settings to set FA-off to be a "toggle" rather than a "hold key".
 
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CMDR Memphis

C
So is the point of FA to use it mostly when turning, and then turning FA on again?
E.g. I boost, want to turn, so I turn FA off, turn to where I want to head, and turn it back on?
I have to admit, I have yet to do the same thing. But it has occasionally bothered me to have a hard time getting on someone's tail again, so maybe that is why.
 

Kalius

K
CMDR Memphis said:
So is the point of FA to use it mostly when turning, and then turning FA on again?
E.g. I boost, want to turn, so I turn FA off, turn to where I want to head, and turn it back on?
I have to admit, I have yet to do the same thing. But it has occasionally bothered me to have a hard time getting on someone's tail again, so maybe that is why.
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I'm very new to the game but this is how I use it in my Viper:

I have a HOTAS with my FA set to a button on my throttle control near boost and engine kill (seemed a logical place to put it). I use it set to toggle in very short bursts to turn quickly. It also lets you use fancy BSG type maneuvers such as blasting full throttle, hitting FA off and killing engine, then you can fire in any direction you like, while still going full speed in one set direction; the possibilities of this are endless. However, some pilots may fly complete FA off while dogfighting... I can't see myself doing this any time soon. Use this for specific maneuvers then toggle it back on is my advice.

Edit: Can I also add, when you want to rotate ass-to-nose, use your vertical thrusters too; it speeds up your turn rate massively. You may also want to kill your forward thrusters for a few seconds too, just until you're passed the halfway point in the turn. As I say though, I'm inexperienced; if anyone wants to correct me please do!
 
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NeilF

NeilF
CMDR Memphis said:
So is the point of FA to use it mostly when turning, and then turning FA on again?
E.g. I boost, want to turn, so I turn FA off, turn to where I want to head, and turn it back on?
I have to admit, I have yet to do the same thing. But it has occasionally bothered me to have a hard time getting on someone's tail again, so maybe that is why.
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IMHO it's a shame so much "assist" is turned off when you disable flight assist. Prior to the flight model changes we now have, in FA off you'd still have some stability help. I'm not suggesting we go back to that degree, but some I feel would help more players utilise what is clearly a more interesting facet of combat.

So again, it would be nice to re-introduce a bit more stability control back into FA mode IMHO.
 

Blaubart

B
I think it's partly also an immersion question. Do you like the challange? then FA off is clearly something for you. I have it on toggle so i can switch as i like. (and save my ass when i can't evade the collision with an asteroid or something on my own) in dogfights, it's allows you to do unforseen maneuvers witch can be helping against other players... otoh they see your thrusters so it's not THAT unforseeable. There is a guy making very good tutorials on the topic which i'd like to recommend. He also responds to questions in case you have some: https://www.youtube.com/user/CrisesMidlife
 
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Distance

Distance
NeilF said:
Some of these guys are amazing!!!!

For the rest of us (mortals), a return to a touch of stabilty control being returned to FA off, would be a great improvement IMHO.
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That's the trick though, for instant stability flick back to ON for a few seconds :)
 

NeilF

NeilF
Distance said:
That's the trick though, for instant stability flick back to ON for a few seconds :)
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Don't quite see that working. ie: If you want to do the classic drift strafe which was so fun back in Alpha/Beta, it's far far harder now as you lose basically all stabillity control in FAoff mode. If they re-introduced a bit back in again, it would of course make it a little easier (for more regular players) to perform some more useful manouvres in FAoff, such as drift strafing. At the moment (IMHO) it's too difficult due to keeping your ship on-target/correctly orientated in FAoff.
 
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Distance

Distance
NeilF said:
Don't quite see that working. ie: If you want to do the classic drift strafe which was so fun back in Alpha/Beta, it's far far harder now as you lose basically all stabillity control in FAoff mode. If they re-introduced a bit back in again, it would of course make it a little easier (for more regular players) to perform some more useful manouvres in FAoff, such as drift strafing. At the moment (IMHO) it's too difficult due to keeping your ship on-target/correctly orientated in FAoff.
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Not the answer you're looking for but : Get better :)

Right now we have the best of both worlds. I personally see no advantage for flying FAoff all the time except for the fun some people derive from it.
 

NeilF

NeilF
Distance said:
Not the answer you're looking for but : Get better :)

Right now we have the best of both worlds. I personally see no advantage for flying FAoff all the time except for the fun some people derive from it.
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Maybe so :)

But I recall back in Alpha/Beta myself (& many others) using FAoff more, and it making combat more diverse and interesting. As such I see no reason why re-introducing (to some degree) the mechanics that supported it wouldn't benefit the game. ie: Some small amount of stability control (back) in FAoff.
 
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Distance

Distance
NeilF said:
Maybe so :)

But I recall back in Alpha/Beta myself (& many others) using FAoff more, and it making combat more diverse and interesting. As such I see no reason why re-introducing (to some degree) the mechanics that supported it wouldn't benefit the game. ie: Some small amount of stability control (back) in FAoff.
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Well in beta we had less bleed off but that meant you could boost, turn off thrusters and remain at the top speed.

They're not going to change the flight model any more. I'm sure you remember the big poll and discussion on faoff.
 

NeilF

NeilF
Distance said:
Well in beta we had less bleed off but that meant you could boost, turn off thrusters and remain at the top speed.
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I'm not refering to that. I believe, back in those glory days :))), there was also a modicum of stability control enabled while in FAoff mode to help you keep orientated (easier). Not 100% sure, but I'm sure there was some? Would be nice for someone more knowledgable to confirm or not!

I think an element of that should be re-introduced again.

Distance said:
They're not going to change the flight model any more. I'm sure you remember the big poll and discussion on faoff.
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Yes, and I remember it resulting in the compromise step back from the extreme (knee-jerk?) flight mechanics change, back towards the Alpha/Beta model.

Re-introducing a small amount of stability control into FAoff would be a further baby step further in that direction for the better IMHO.
 
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NeilF

NeilF
Distance said:
From my memory of playing I find faoff easier now than it was in beta due to the bleed off changes . . .
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But bleed-off is simply the velocity slow down to bring it into speed alignment with FAon?

I recall with FAoff, when you pitched, yawed and rolled, it use to aid you with some stability help to dampen/control it a bit for you? ie: So you could keep aligned with a target easier with FAoff? I'm sure I'm not imagining that!?
 

the100thmonkey

the100thmonkey
NeilF said:
But bleed-off is simply the velocity slow down to bring it into speed alignment with FAon?

I recall with FAoff, when you pitched, yawed and rolled, it use to aid you with some stability help to dampen/control it a bit for you? ie: So you could keep aligned with a target easier with FAoff? I'm sure I'm not imagining that!?
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I never played in the betas of the game, so I can't comment on whether or not you're imagining it, but this feature would make FA-off combat much easier.

BTW, your Toyah avatar looks like Brian Eno circa 1974.
 

NeilF

NeilF
the100thmonkey said:
I never played in the betas of the game, so I can't comment on whether or not you're imagining it, but this feature would make FA-off combat much easier.
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The idea would not be to made FAoff combat alot easier... hence the suggestion of only (re-)introducing a bit of stability control to make it a bit easier :)

the100thmonkey said:
BTW, your Toyah avatar looks like Brian Eno circa 1974.
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Ummmm...

http://pastdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/eno-resize.jpg
eno-resize.jpg
*SMACK!* :)
 
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NeilF

NeilF
Distance said:
The people who currently fly fa off don't actually want it to be easier . . .
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That's fair enough... But possibly not the best approach to let the vaste minority control what's best for the vaste majority? :)

Undoubtably the current FAoff is an amazing skill to master. But as it stands I'd suggest for the vaste majority of players it's too steep a skill to master, especially for what benefits it offers. A small stability boost on it (less than it was back in the glory days) I suggest would take the rough edges off it a little, such that it would still be a skill to master, but one that is more accessible to a larger number of players.
 
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