Engineers Focused weapon modifications

[Bio-Flame]

Hello CMDRs!

I've got a question about the focused weapon modifications from the engineers.

I've read somewhere that the focused mod also increases the projectile speed for projectile weapons (Pulse lasers, Burst lasers, Cannons, P.A., etc..).
Is that true?


I cannot confirm it anywhere. If it's true, does anyone know what the speed increase is? I mean, is it a flat increase on the speed, or is it a %?



Thank you for the help,


Bio-Flame

 

[Dommarraa]

Lasers are not projectile weapons so cannot improve projectile speed, and I cant see any Focused upgrades for most of projectile weapons (Cannon Frag or MC).

 

[Edelgard von Rhein]

I think you are referring to the Long Range mod. I'm not sure where to find the velocities of rounds from different sizes of cannon to check, though. I think there was some tweaking of the base speeds during 2.1, possibly also for PAs, to make them faster but I'm not sure if it was tweaked further during the 2.2 beta. Try making a low grade mod and checking the velocity in outfitting, if you have materials to spare.

 

[Frenotx]

Anything that increases max range (Focused and long range) increases the projectile velocity of projectile weapons (cannons, MCs, PAs, etc.). For lasers, their max range is simply extended, and their damage falloff curve is adjusted to match.

 

[Bio-Flame]

@Frenotx: So, for something like a P.A., a focused mod would actually increase the projectile velocity, thus making it easier to land hits, yeah?

Is it a flat increase or is it % based?

 

[Frenotx]

@Frenotx: So, for something like a P.A., a focused mod would actually increase the projectile velocity, thus making it easier to land hits, yeah?

Is it a flat increase or is it % based?

Yes. It's percent based. At G5, you can up to double the projectile speed, leaving it close to MC speed. Unfortunately, the low DPS and DPE of plasma makes it still not a terribly wonderful weapon.

 

[Bio-Flame]

Thank you for your answer.


I am starting to realize that although in paper/theory the P.A. is interesting, in practice it is really underperforming to say the least.
Anyway, I am playing an iCourier (for fun) and it only has 3 hardpoints, which would mean either 2 lasers + 1 M.C. or 1 laser + 2 M.C.


My idea for using the P.A. is two-fold:

1- It allows me to use 1 laser + 1 M.C. and the PA itself is useful against shields and also against hulls.

2- It forces me to fly better, to increase my aiming and piloting skills.


Thus, I thought that using the Focused mod on the PA would it easier to hit with and thus increase the actual DPS.
But if what you're saying is true....then there's no escape that there are only two weapons on PvE - pulse lasers and M.C.

That's kinda..depressing.

 

[Frenotx]

Thank you for your answer.


I am starting to realize that although in paper/theory the P.A. is interesting, in practice it is really underperforming to say the least.
Anyway, I am playing an iCourier (for fun) and it only has 3 hardpoints, which would mean either 2 lasers + 1 M.C. or 1 laser + 2 M.C.


My idea for using the P.A. is two-fold:

1- It allows me to use 1 laser + 1 M.C. and the PA itself is useful against shields and also against hulls.

2- It forces me to fly better, to increase my aiming and piloting skills.


Thus, I thought that using the Focused mod on the PA would it easier to hit with and thus increase the actual DPS.
But if what you're saying is true....then there's no escape that there are only two weapons on PvE - pulse lasers and M.C.

That's kinda..depressing.

Frontier has a long way to go on balance, especially with weapons.

 

[Bio-Flame]

Short, and to the point.

So, I would take it that thinking about focused mods for Cannons (so that they would miss less) and stuff like that is also pointless, yes?

 

[Serpentis Ictis]

I think ypu are focusing on stats too much, the best weapons are ones that work for you and that you enjoy using.

There is no need to use beams according to stats, but i do, as i like them. I also enjoy using rails, missiles, torpedoes and multicannons.

Play the game how you want, in PvE at least.

 

[Derath]

Short, and to the point.

So, I would take it that thinking about focused mods for Cannons (so that they would miss less) and stuff like that is also pointless, yes?

If you enjoy using them, they have a point however if your interested in min-maxing the problem is very simple

Long range has an opportunity cost by occupying the mod slot on your weapon, it makes it hit more consistently but it generally doesn't do anything else beneficial. The issue becomes that a LR cannon never competes with an overcharged MC because they are balanced around very similar dps in the first place.

Plasma has a similar problem, just doesn't do the damage to make it realistic to use a long range variant.

For lasers focused is considerably better however as it improves the damage profile of the weapon.

 

[Bio-Flame]

First of all, thanks to everyone that has been replying. Sometines this game is a bit...toxic during in the open play server but it's nice to know there's nice people that can reply to noobish questions.

So, I do play whatever I want to play, I sometimes min-max, sometimes I don't.
In this case, I clearly know I am not, or I wouldn't be using an iCourier with a P.A.


Still, it was good to confirm that mods that increase weapon's range also increase the projectile's speed as well as the damage profile.


I've just got my hands on 9 military supercapacitors and just upgraded a Class 3 PA and a Class 2 PA with focused mod.
Damn, the projectile speed increase is very noticeable.

My "actual" DPS has increased considerably since it's a lot easier to hit with them now, or shall I say, the hit-ratio is a lot more consistant even at longer ranges.


I am now going to upgrade some Class 3 gimbaled pulse lasers and see how it goes.


Question: how about beam lasers (fixed or gimballed) with focused mod? I usually avoid beams due to the extremely high energy draw but it might be fun firing lasers from 5-6k range
Anyone ever tried it before?

 

[NecasekO]

Question: how about beam lasers (fixed or gimballed) with focused mod? I usually avoid beams due to the extremely high energy draw but it might be fun firing lasers from 5-6k range
Anyone ever tried it before?

Unfortunately beam lasers can't use any mods that alter rate of fire, they are limited to short range, long range, lightweight and sturdy. All of them have little benefits and significant drawbacks IMO. I'd say only the lightweight may make sense on large weapons since it can reduce their weight from 8 tons to around 1 ton.

 

[fus roh potato]

Anyone know the velocity difference of a long/focused cannon compared to an overcharged multi-cannon?

I run 5 fixed multicannons on my gunship but I'm getting tired of the large multi because it takes forever to spool up and stay up, rendering it largely useless against anything smaller than a Conda. I need responsiveness for fixed guns and was thinking maybe I should replace it with a large cannon or medium multi, but the proj speeds would have to be the same.

 

[Non Grata]

8 tons to around 1 ton.

75% reduction AFAIK.

 

[Derath]

Anyone know the velocity difference of a long/focused cannon compared to an overcharged multi-cannon?

I run 5 fixed multicannons on my gunship but I'm getting tired of the large multi because it takes forever to spool up and stay up, rendering it largely useless against anything smaller than a Conda. I need responsiveness for fixed guns and was thinking maybe I should replace it with a large cannon or medium multi, but the proj speeds would have to be the same.

I think the base of multi-cannons is 1600, cannons used to be around ~ 500 however they changed them several times since i was comfortable with that number and couldn't really confirm if that was still the case. I'll just say that i'd be very surprised if you could get to multi-cannon speed with a cannon, maybe with a top rolled range 5.

 

[domaq]

G3 fixed cannon is 850m/s now I think. You can see their speeds in the details panel before you buy them. The smaller cannons have a higher speed than the larger ones and fixed are faster than gimbaled. I believe you can get upwards of 1200-1300 m/s with the Longrange mod.
.
Re: PA's. I'm going to try focused v/s rapid fire on an Advanced PA and see if the DPE/shot speed is worthwhile as the cannons were still depressingly bad.

 

[Bio-Flame]

As for Focused PAs: I've been having a blast with them. I have a focused class 2 PA on an iCourier and a Class 3 PA on a Python.

I can hit targets a lot easier now, with a lot less misses. Even against smaller, faster targets it is rather easy to hit them.
It might not be THE optimal weapon to use, but it is now very useful.
And fun.

 

[Truesilver]

Both the Focused and the Long Range mod increase projectile velocity in direct proportion to range, whilst (as Frenotx says) applying the same damage fall-off curve across the new range (e.g. making a fixed focused pulse laser quite tasty at 2 km).

Therefore, as both Focused and Long Range, at g5, offer a range increase of up to 100%, they also offer doubling of projectile velocity.

It's therefore entirely possible to make plasma accelerators and cannons with projectile velocities higher than the (unmodded) multi-cannon velocity of 1,600 mps.

Conversely, it's entirely possible to make multis that are almost hitscan. In Beta 2.2 I was playing around with Enforcer Cannons with projectile velocity of c 3,600 mps (yes, you read that right).

The two problems with the above are that:

(1) Focused is a good mod but plasma is a bad weapon;

(2) Long Range is not a good mod (due to downsides) and multis and cannons only get access to long range, not focused. You will give up one heck of a lot compared to Overcharged or Rapid Fire.

Due to item (2) above, in Beta I suggested that all Long Range mods should be removed and replaced with Focused. This garnered apparently universal player support but it came to nothing, sadly.

 

[Bio-Flame]

@Truesilver: yes, I read your post on the beta forums and that post was the first one where I read that focused mod also increases projectile speed.

As for focused and PA, yes, I would agree that PA is a bad (but fun!) weapon, but its downsides are very much improved with the focused mod, most especially the increased projectile speed, because the range increase is not really relevant to that weapon.
It is still lagging behind other weapons, for me due to the low projectile speed (offset by the focused mod), highcapacitor draw, high EPS, low DPE, low "real" DPS in live combat.

But it *is* fun to play with,imo.


Question for Truesilver: for an iCourier and a Python, what would be the DPS difference between T5 overcharged, Focused or Rapid Fire pulse lasers?