For good PvE combat in Elite... don't spec for combat

[CMDR Corlas]

I think we can all agree that the AI in Elite is... not always the brightest.

It's also pretty easy to metagame yourself to not only obscene amounts of credits, but even things like always starting your fights with would-be pirates from an advantageous position, always being the first to open fire, always having the better ship, the better weapons, the better shields... all on top of the AI issue.

This all works out to PvE combat that's has all the elements of awesome - great graphics, spaceships, parasite fighters, lasers, multicannons, railguns, etc - but gets dull and repetitive pretty quick, with rarely a real risk. What's a PvE-combat-loving CMDR to do? It's actually easy:

Don't spec for combat.

Make yourself a mining ship. A trader. A scavenger. Anything but a combat ship. Make it so that it can get in and out of a scrape, but don't spec it to be combat focused. Make sure you can respectably do your job, and then do it: Mining, trading, scavenging, smuggling... but also get into trouble.

Are you in a mining ship? Pop into a RES and start actually mining, up close in the center. If you're in a high-enough level one, don't worry. Fights will find you. And they'll be a lot more fun than if you popped into the same RES in a combat ship with an empty hold.

Are you in a trade ship? Actually drop in to that Weapons Fire signal source that popped up - with your full load of cargo. Hope you picked up a point defense or two to protect your hold from hatchbreakers.

The flexibility of this game makes it really easy to min-max yourself into an invincible PvE juggernaut, but being invincible is also desperately boring. And credits-per-hour is an utterly foolish metric by which to judge our gameplay.

Spend some utility slots on the point defense and scanners that, were it all real, a CMDR in your position would actually want. Have a big cargo hold, and use it. Load up on the non min-max extras that give you a flexible and well-rounded ship. Lose some hardpoints to mining gear. Fly a T6, 7, or 8. Get a Keelback or a Hauler. Pretend like you're actually struggling to make it, as it should be if the game's credit economy wasn't broken as hell.

That's how to get good PvE combat in Elite.

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

What's a PvE-combat-loving CMDR to do?

Anti-Xeno combat.
Regular PvE combat gets boring in 5 minutes.

Glory to mankind!

 

[Speedcuffs]

RP it. I have Dropship set up for damaged megaship rescues, also carries AX multi-cannon. I don't always win, but it's enjoyable.

 

[Danieros]

High end PvE is AX combat.

 

[Old Duck]

That's how to get good PvE combat in Elite.

My most enjoyable PvE combat comes from two ships, both combat-spec but neither meta - one is my Eagle, and the other is my stealth Cobra. These are absolute delights to fly, the combat feels "real" (not this stupid shield-tanking jousting that the game devolves into with upper-tier ships), and the experience in VR is sublime.

Meanwhile my Mamba sits parked in a hangar and I sold my Corvette long ago.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

AX combat has no real motivation to me. I'm just supposed to shoot Thargoids because they're aliens, basically. As long as AX needs to be specifically sought out, it's boring to me.

I liked the incursions into the bubble. They were still entirely optional, but felt a bit better at least.

And for me, it's still not as fun. "High end" PvE is a boring and overly gameified idea, imo.

Set peice battles will always be more dull than things just unfolding around you.

 

[Borko]

What duck said. Downsize. I turfed the corvette because too easy, now the chieftain’s getting there. Vulture time soon, methinks.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

If I get into AX combat, it's gonna be in a cargo ship, rescue ship, or explorer that's also kitted to defend against 'goids. Loading multiple MRP's and HRP's into every open slot will never be interesting to me.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

What duck said. Downsize. I turfed the corvette because too easy, now the chieftain’s getting there. Vulture time soon, methinks.

I was killing pirates in between missions in my Hauler last night, and it was lovely.

 

[Old Duck]

"High end" PvE is a boring and overly gameified idea, imo.

My problem with high end PvE (with regular NPCs) is that it is so terribly predictable. All the NPCs fly the exact same way, like extremely so, in that they often tend to position themselves in the same quadrant of my screen every time, they all do the same exact shield cell bank + chaff defense, they fly the same patterns and perform the same flips - it's like they all trained to play the same role in a Kung Fu movie or something.

Whereas lower-ranking NPCs feel a little more unpredictable - will they fight, run, get flustered, make mistakes? Lower NPCs feel like the programmer focused on making the pilots human (including human emotions, response times, failings, etc), whereas the higher-level NPCs feel like robots or drones.

ps - flying a stealth ship tends to "break" the default robotic AI of upper-tier NPCs, providing more organic and natural combat.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

AX combat has no real motivation to me. I'm just supposed to shoot Thargoids because they're aliens, basically. As long as AX needs to be specifically sought out, it's boring to me.

I liked the incursions into the bubble. They were still entirely optional, but felt a bit better at least.

And for me, it's still not as fun. "High end" PvE is a boring and overly gameified idea, imo.

Set peice battles will always be more dull than things just unfolding around you.

Same here, I’d like to see Human NPC combat with similar difficulty to thargoid combat, or pvp.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

My problem with high end PvE (with regular NPCs) is that it is so terribly predictable. All the NPCs fly the exact same way, like extremely so, in that they often tend to position themselves in the same quadrant of my screen every time, they all do the same exact shield cell bank + chaff defense, they fly the same patterns and perform the same flips - it's like they all trained to play the same role in a Kung Fu movie or something.

Whereas lower-ranking NPCs feel a little more unpredictable - will they fight, run, get flustered, make mistakes? Lower NPCs feel like the programmer focused on making the pilots human (including human emotions, response times, failings, etc), whereas the higher-level NPCs feel like robots or drones.

ps - flying a stealth ship tends to "break" the default robotic AI of upper-tier NPCs, providing more organic and natural combat.

You're totally right about lower-ranked being more interesting fights. I really miss the old beta Engineers AI where the ships tried to run away. That was awesome.

Stealth vs high-end sounds fun. I'll have to try it out sometime. In something not combat-specced.

 

[Riverside]

A few weeks ago I picked up a delivery mission, just one of several missions I had on the go. But a base scan too many made me hostile with the faction owning the station I needed to deliver to.

I found a system that faction controlled with a haz RES, and dropped in in my hauling Python, with no chaff, no point defence, and a hold full of mission specific cargo.

I had to get a couple of kills to get enough bounties to get me out of hostile, without being scanned, without taking too much incoming fire in a ship designed only to survive long enough to escape, then sell those bounties at an Interstellar Factor & finally complete my 'simple' delivery mission

Most fun I'd had in ages

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Same here, I’d like to see Human NPC combat with similar difficulty to thargoid combat, or pvp.

Try speccing out a mining ship and mining in the danger zone of a High or Haz RES.

 

[here_it_comes]

Small ships are where the fun is at. My most enjoyable combat ships are my shieldless DBS with twin Cyto/SRB PAs and my 750m/s Courier. Both are fully engineered for combat and still must be flown with care to avoid death due to their low durability.

Medium ships like Chieftain are ok, but nowhere near as fun. Corvette may as well be renamed Ambien as far as I'm concerned.

Piloting a sluggish slow ship is not what I do combat for.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

A few weeks ago I picked up a delivery mission, just one of several missions I had on the go. But a base scan too many made me hostile with the faction owning the station I needed to deliver to.

I found a system that faction controlled with a haz RES, and dropped in in my hauling Python, with no chaff, no point defence, and a hold full of mission specific cargo.

I had to get a couple of kills to get enough bounties to get me out of hostile, without being scanned, without taking too much incoming fire in a ship designed only to survive long enough to escape, then sell those bounties at an Interstellar Factor & finally complete my 'simple' delivery mission

Most fun I'd had in ages

That's the kinda gameplay I love. Too much metagaming as people playing "smart" and safe, and it just makes for dull gameplay, imo.

 

[Dragsham]

My rails fdl solo in high combat zones. Now thats a fight...which l regularily do as l no longer need mats or credits.
So now ive built a rails cobra lll and will attempt the same.... gulp! Its those spec ops! Swarmed and you better be pips in shileds n boost like billy o.
So yes agree with Op make it harder for yourself. Seat of pants stuff!!

 

[CMDR Corlas]

My Corvette is more fun when I spec it wrong. I keep some nice big fixed multis in the C4 slots, but I put mining lasers in the C2's and the C3 has a turreted healbeam.

 

[Morbad]

Self-handicapping hard enough can introduce a challenge to almost any scenario, but it's not something that should be required, and the extent to which it is required against any non-optional NPC encounter (the kinds you'd come across while not going out of one's way for a fight) is extreme to a completely immersion defying extent.

Yes, I can just fly a complete lemon of a ship (far more castrated than just focusing on a non-combat role), but I could also let my dog use my rudder pedals, or take my glasses off and try to squint through severe myopia, or drink myself into stupor before I play...to similar effect. It's one of those suggestions that isn't incorrect, but also isn't particularly useful, IMO.

Playing it smart and safe shouldn't be discouraged, it should be mandatory past a certain point.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Glory to mankind!

All hail our insectoid overlords!