Force feedback

[Kyennamo]

Hi all.

About to embark on an adventure in PC gaming.

Ordering a pc, hmd, hotas and a chair all to start all over again on the pc side of ED.

Thanks to some suggestions i believe i am going to choose a saitek x52 pro and an maxnomic dominator. I sat in the dominator for the rift demo and it felt amazing on my back. I have multiple herniated discs so chair comfort is a huge part of this equasion

My problem is, neither of these choices offers me force feedback. As a console gamer i cant stress enough how feeling my engines rumble and guns fire make me happy.

So.....does anyone have any suggestions for a comparable hotas or chair? Possibly a 3rd party add on or something? Anything?

I have seen some tutorials on how to rig this up in some form or another with devices but i would much prefer something with native feedback support.

Suggestions appreciated

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

You won't find a HOTAS.

Force Feedback sticks were patented by some company back in the early 2000's who went out of business but refuse to let go of the patent. No other company can make force feedback sticks as a result.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=buttkicker

That's about as good as it gets for the chair. I wouldn't buy anything that's an all-in-one package and expect to keep my back straight. You're better off buying a good computer chair and strapping that on.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

You might want to look into one of these:

http://korfx.com/products

The Kor-fx haptic feedback vest.

You can get:

Logitech Flight System G940 Force Feedback Joystick

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Flight-System-Feedback-Joystick/dp/B002G1YPP2

Though these are not new.

There is also:

Though I'm not sure where to get these.

Patents only last 20 years, provided the maintenance fees are paid. If they're not...

 

[fruitbat]

Best force feedback stick ever made was the msffb2. A lot of the people I flight sim with use them, myself included, and most have trawled through ebay snapping them up as a spare when they appear, as again did I. I know someone that has 4 in a wardrobe. I use mine in conjunction with an x52 and saitek pedals.

Doesn't matter for this game with regards to feedback, as there are no effects, but I have tried pretty much every stick that is available, and you would have to prise my msffb2 away from me out of my cold dead hands.

With respect to the lawsuit, both sides ended up suing each other, multiple times, but ffb tech isn't off the table, the g940 is the latest effort, just a few years back.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Doesn't matter for this game with regards to feedback, as there are no effects, but I have tried pretty much every stick that is available, and you would have to prise my msffb2 away from me out of my cold dead hands.

This. Even if you found one you'd be wasting your money, because game devs don't put the code in for them anymore. They're so rare and no longer in production that it isn't a highly sought feature, so no one bothers.

 

[fruitbat]

This. Even if you found one you'd be wasting your money, because game devs don't put the code in for them anymore. They're so rare and no longer in production that it isn't a highly sought feature, so no one bothers.

Not exactly, as when a game doesn't have effects you still have the stick tension through the motors, which I find to be the smoothest and most precise motion on the many sticks I have tried, hence why I like them so much.

However you are quite correct about modern games not coding ffb most of the time, due to the limited ffb sticks available.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Not exactly, as when a game doesn't have effects you still have the stick tension through the motors, which I find to be the smoothest and most precise motion on the many sticks I have tried, hence why I like them so much.

However you are quite correct about modern games not coding ffb most of the time, due to the limited ffb sticks available.

Tried a warthog with the grease replaced?

Because if it's still better, I think I might go on the hunt....

 

[DNA-Decay]

I haven't seen Frontier acknowledge this - but Elite Dangerous is a driver of hardware purchases.
Seen so many threads start with "I'm about to drop as much discretionary spending as I possibly can on this game"

And I count myself among this.

Responding to your question:
Butt kicker or kor fx will give you solid engine rumble sensation.
For joysticks - I gotta say if you've got some money to spend - get a Warthog.

no force feedback.
But. Oh My Goodness. I've not heard anyone regret that purchase.

 

[fruitbat]

@windscreen smudge,

Thats one of the few that I haven't personally tried (a few minutes as duxford flying legends doesn't count enough) I do know people that I have flown with in combat sims for years whose opinion I trust, and they prefer the msffb2. One proviso though, most combat flight sims do have feedback effects

I only know one person that I've flown with who didn't like the stick.

 

[Riverside]

You won't find a HOTAS.

Force Feedback sticks were patented by some company back in the early 2000's who went out of business but refuse to let go of the patent. No other company can make force feedback sticks as a result.

Interesting, I owned several FF joysticks (preferred Logitech Wingman Force myself) in the '90's, switched over to FF wheels & all this Immersion Corp stuff completely passed me by. Just done a bit of googling to fill in some blanks.

I'm a big fan of FF on a steering wheel but never felt much benefit from FF sticks for the price difference, and certainly never missed it in a space sim.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

I haven't seen Frontier acknowledge this - but Elite Dangerous is a driver of hardware purchases.

They've had a long-running relationship with Saitek. That's why the HOTAS in the game looks like the X52.

It's such a shame they chose to get involved with the worst peripheral manufacturer possible.

 

[fruitbat]

They've had a long-running relationship with Saitek. That's why the HOTAS in the game looks like the X52.

It's such a shame they chose to get involved with the worst peripheral manufacturer possible.

There's a few candidates worse than Saitek imo, but there build quality definitely isn't great at all. I have a msffb2 that is 14 years old and is perfect, I have a x52 where I have never used the stick for anything other than a button bay (bought it for the throttle) which is around 4 years old I guess, and has buttons that have failed/sends erratic responses.

Ch sticks are also very popular In the flight sim community for precision, but obviously no force feedback.

 

[=71st=RuSh]

I have the same of the pic, the G940, great joystick, the FFB is terrific in DCS world. The only problem was the mess the designers did with the throttle and a short cable conecting to the integrate circuit, most people had to repair the problem themselves

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

@windscreen smudge,

Thats one of the few that I haven't personally tried (a few minutes as duxford flying legends doesn't count enough) I do know people that I have flown with in combat sims for years whose opinion I trust, and they prefer the msffb2. One proviso though, most combat flight sims do have feedback effects

I only know one person that I've flown with who didn't like the stick.

Going to have to take a rain-check then.

Once you replace the cheap grease in the Warthog so that you no longer have any stiction it's all dreamy. The springs have just the right amount of tension for the weight of the solid metal casting to make articulation very satisfying and perfectly smooth.

I wasn't even planning to replace the grease in my Warthog but it got so sticky that one of the O-rings got dragged out of position.

Nothing like a good lube job to set things straight.

 

[Kyennamo]

It would seem i am SoL with a native solution.

So begins the enginuity.

So.....does the rumble function of an xb1 controller work with ED on PC?

If so, can you use a hotas AND an xb1 controller at the same time?

My idea is to use the hotas as my controller and cannibilize the xb1 controler and use it to relay the signal to an amp that will power the same type of transducers used in the Buttkicker.

The idea here is to get TRUE feedback and not just feedback based on low audio frequency

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

It would seem i am SoL with a native solution.

So begins the enginuity.

So.....does the rumble function of an xb1 controller work with ED on PC?

If so, can you use a hotas AND an xb1 controller at the same time?

My idea is to use the hotas as my controller and cannibilize the xb1 controler and use it to relay the signal to an amp that will power the same type of transducers used in the Buttkicker.

The idea here is to get TRUE feedback and not just feedback based on low audio frequency

.....

You realize that low audio frequency can shake you hard enough to loosen your bowels, right?.....

 

[AtrociKitty]

So.....does anyone have any suggestions for a comparable hotas or chair? Possibly a 3rd party add on or something? Anything?

I have an Earthquake Shell Shoxx tactile transducer, which I highly recommend. It's similar to the already mentioned Buttkicker, but the included amp has a good bit more power (320W). I use it with a cockpit setup, and find it does a good job providing feedback even with all that extra mass over a normal chair. I have it mounted near where the stick mounts, so I feel the bigger sounds through the controls as well. The only drawback is probably the discovery scanner, which can shake things a bit too much. Also, make sure you isolate your setup well (I have a treadmill mat on top of the carpet to help with this). Isolation is needed to avoid shaking other things in the room, and definitely needed if you live with other people.

You may also want to check out this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/321500-Is-a-Buttkicker-worth-it-for-Elite-Dangerous

EDIT:

The idea here is to get TRUE feedback and not just feedback based on low audio frequency

What feedback are you looking for exactly, if not audio? A rumble function is not at all the same as a tactile transducer. The transducer will let you "feel" the sound; it does more than shake things.

 

[Kingston@#]

So.....does the rumble function of an xb1 controller work with ED on PC?

If so, can you use a hotas AND an xb1 controller at the same time?

rumble function on my 360 controller does not rumble... no settings for it in ED controls..

will let you know if the both work together will try it out tomoz for you thats if result is still needed!

 

[Kyennamo]

I don't necessarily want to feel the sound. I want to feel actions in game.

As an xbox gamer, i have gotten used to some pretty intricate vibration functions in some games and i love it. Using a transducer with the audio would definitely be cool....and likely have more powerful vibrations.....and it may be my only choice.....but i seriously doubt it is as on point and intricate as the vibration function of the xb1 controller

I realize the transducer is different than a rumble motor. But i watched a guy on youtube wire a ps controller to a motor on his chair to add vibration function that is correct and in sync with the vibrations the controler produced. I was considering trying to find a way to translate THAT signal to multiple transducers. Unfortunately i havent thought of a way to get that signal to an amp so i can run the transducers

So does ED even support controller vibration function on PC? And if it does, would it still support the vibration function if the controller AND a hotas were being used

 

[AtrociKitty]

A proper transducer is significantly more "on point and intricate" in comparison to a vibrating motor. And sound and actions are one and the same. For example, a transducer can allow you to feel opening and closing your cargo hatch using the sound the hatch makes. It's actually wired into the normal speaker channel, rather than the sub like you might expect.