General / Off-Topic Formula 1 - 2017 Season

[Matt168]

Max Verstappen is the Achilles heal to both of them. Both have damaged their cars trying to beat him into the 1st corner in resent races.

Fair play to the Golden boy, a 4th championship well deserved. He just needs to understand that 50% of his honours should also go to the car he has been driving.

While I think both Vettel and Hamilton are aware of the potential of Verstappen, Hamilton did at least have the capacity to let Max go by unchallenged in Malaysia in those early laps. The only damage on Hamilton's car in recent races came courtesy of Mr Vettel declining to avoid an accident after he'd already wrecked his front wing. As far as I can think, the only damage inflicted on Lewis' car during races all season has come after being hit by Vettel.

Verstappen is a long way from being complete, but could take Vettel's spot as youngest ever F1 champion if Red Bull deliver. I suspect if it happens he will make hard work of it, like most first titles. While he is still a bit wild at times, I can't think of any drivers that have actually lost their speed after taming the inevitable flaws from their early F1 careers as people like to suggest every time a top notch new driver starts to make a name for themselves. I still wish they had kept his abbreviated name as VES on the time screens though.

 

[duckofdeath]

While I think both Vettel and Hamilton are aware of the potential of Verstappen, Hamilton did at least have the capacity to let Max go by unchallenged in Malaysia in those early laps. The only damage on Hamilton's car in recent races came courtesy of Mr Vettel declining to avoid an accident after he'd already wrecked his front wing. As far as I can think, the only damage inflicted on Lewis' car during races all season has come after being hit by Vettel.

Verstappen is a long way from being complete, but could take Vettel's spot as youngest ever F1 champion if Red Bull deliver. I suspect if it happens he will make hard work of it, like most first titles. While he is still a bit wild at times, I can't think of any drivers that have actually lost their speed after taming the inevitable flaws from their early F1 careers as people like to suggest every time a top notch new driver starts to make a name for themselves. I still wish they had kept his abbreviated name as VES on the time screens though.

There was physical contact between Hamilton and Alonso in Mexico. He really isn't unique at avoiding it. He's just been a bit luckier with the end-result this season compared to last season.

 

[hairychris]

Verstappen is a long way from being complete, but could take Vettel's spot as youngest ever F1 champion if Red Bull deliver. I suspect if it happens he will make hard work of it, like most first titles. While he is still a bit wild at times, I can't think of any drivers that have actually lost their speed after taming the inevitable flaws from their early F1 careers as people like to suggest every time a top notch new driver starts to make a name for themselves. I still wish they had kept his abbreviated name as VES on the time screens though.

Even if they are a little slower they more than make up for it by finishing more consistently in the points!

 

[Stealthie]

Hamilton had a lot of over-the-limit battering ram moments, back and forth with Rosberg over the years. A driver on that level will do anything to win, or they wouldn't be there. Schumi, Senna, Prost, Alonso... They've all played the same billion dollar bumper car race at some point in their career to win a world championship.

I recall listening to Senna talking about overtaking years ago.
He was talking about how once you capitulate to another driver then you've lost the "mental battle" and that driver will always have that advantage over you.
Thing is, I'm not entirely sure I believe that.
I mean, just because, say, you let another driver pass because you're trying to save fuel, it doesn't mean you're going to do the same thing every time in future.

Even so, I suspect that's part of what's going on in Verstappen's head.
He's not fighting for the championship this year so it doesn't really matter if he ends up 1st, 2nd, 3rd or parked-up with broken suspension.
What will matter to Verstappen is that he won't want to give Vettel or Hamilton the idea that he's a nice, polite, courteous, driver who'll meekly give way to the "big boys".
He wants to put it in both Vettel and Hamilton's heads that they're always going to have to fight to get past him and that's probably more important than podium positions right now.
And good luck to him for that.

I guess the real litmus test will be when the shoe is on the other foot and he IS in with a shot of a title.
Will he then be smart enough to realise it's better to accept 18 points rather than ending up with a DNF as a result of trying to hold onto a win?

 

[Arry]

I recall listening to Senna talking about overtaking years ago.
He was talking about how once you capitulate to another driver then you've lost the "mental battle" and that driver will always have that advantage over you.
Thing is, I'm not entirely sure I believe that.
I mean, just because, say, you let another driver pass because you're trying to save fuel, it doesn't mean you're going to do the same thing every time in future.

Even so, I suspect that's part of what's going on in Verstappen's head.
He's not fighting for the championship this year so it doesn't really matter if he ends up 1st, 2nd, 3rd or parked-up with broken suspension.
What will matter to Verstappen is that he won't want to give Vettel or Hamilton the idea that he's a nice, polite, courteous, driver who'll meekly give way to the "big boys".
He wants to put it in both Vettel and Hamilton's heads that they're always going to have to fight to get past him and that's probably more important than podium positions right now.
And good luck to him for that.

I guess the real litmus test will be when the shoe is on the other foot and he IS in with a shot of a title.
Will he then be smart enough to realise it's better to accept 18 points rather than ending up with a DNF as a result of trying to hold onto a win?

I don't know if you know this: Both Verstappen's parents were racers and so have taught him a lot and in his early days, they would discuss the easy passing points on the up and coming track. Then they would not give him any credit for him overtaking at the said easy passing places and they would encourage him to find ways to overtake on other less obvious places. Which has given him the reputation for being very unpredictable, among his fellow racers.

 

[Matt168]

I don't know if you know this: Both Verstappen's parents were racers and so have taught him a lot and in his early days, they would discuss the easy passing points on the up and coming track. Then they would not give him any credit for him overtaking at the said easy passing places and they would encourage him to find ways to overtake on other less obvious places. Which has given him the reputation for being very unpredictable, among his fellow racers.

Verstappen's reputation for being unpredictable isn't about how he passes but how he defends. Surprising a driver by passing where they didn't think it was possible might hurt their pride, but surprising a driver by moving across in a braking zone is dangerous. He hasn't been criticised much this year, so he's either growing up or has spent too much time with a broken down car to have got in to much trouble.

 

[Patrick_68000]

A great guy this Hamilton

 

[Arry]

Verstappen's reputation for being unpredictable isn't about how he passes but how he defends. Surprising a driver by passing where they didn't think it was possible might hurt their pride, but surprising a driver by moving across in a braking zone is dangerous. He hasn't been criticised much this year, so he's either growing up or has spent too much time with a broken down car to have got in to much trouble.

He did that a few times and then they changed the rules; so I guess that is racing. When the crash happens as a result, said rule changes and drivers going too far; the question will then be. Did anyone get hurt? Weaving in a 200 mile an hour braking zone, is not the best way to avoid danger; but the critics are saying that F1 is becoming to sanitised. Massive run off areas, for example. The last race was at a more realistic track, you didn't see any trying to take advantage of the track limits there. But then, there is grass just over a meter from the track.

 

[duckofdeath]

He did that a few times and then they changed the rules; so I guess that is racing. When the crash happens as a result, said rule changes and drivers going too far; the question will then be. Did anyone get hurt? Weaving in a 200 mile an hour braking zone, is not the best way to avoid danger; but the critics are saying that F1 is becoming to sanitised. Massive run off areas, for example. The last race was at a more realistic track, you didn't see any trying to take advantage of the track limits there. But then, there is grass just over a meter from the track.

We've only had one F1 driver killed in the last 20 years. Let's keep those numbers at that level, shall we?
They are working on fixes to the abuse of the extended tracks with ramps, sausage kerbs and astroturf. Though, I could agree that this would mean they could also re-introduce some of the gravel traps. One reason for them being removed was that they were damaging the expensive cars. I think they have been looking into putting strips of gravel back in, but, I think the design might be problematic. It could lead to a disaster if the far side of a narrow trap catches a sliding car. So, the least bad options at the moment is astroturf and sausage kerbs.

 

[Manticore]

We've only had one F1 driver killed in the last 20 years. Let's keep those numbers at that level, shall we?

Yeah; RIP Jules Bianchi-Japanese Grand Prix 2015

I remember the blackest weekend in F1 before that: San Marino Grand Prix 1994

Roland Ratzenberger killed during qualifying and then the great Ayrton Senna on May 1 race-day.

I was watching that broadcast when Senna's car left the track. When the wreckage finally came to rest in the centre of the track halfway down the next straight I had a really bad feeling about it given Senna's head movement in the cockpit. That race weekend was totally tragic.

This documentary is a very good history of how abjectly dangerous the sport used to be.

Grand Prix - The Killer Years

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x14el38

Motorsport-the only sport that I really follow; so dangerous.

 

[Arry]

Yeah; RIP Jules Bianchi-Japanese Grand Prix 2015

I remember the blackest weekend in F1 before that: San Marino Grand Prix 1994

Roland Ratzenberger killed during qualifying and then the great Ayrton Senna on May 1 race-day.

I was watching that broadcast when Senna's car left the track. When the wreckage finally came to rest in the centre of the track halfway down the next straight I had a really bad feeling about it given Senna's head movement in the cockpit. That race weekend was totally tragic.

This documentary is a very good history of how abjectly dangerous the sport used to be.

Grand Prix - The Killer Years

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x14el38

Motorsport-the only sport that I really follow; so dangerous.

A well thought out and out together documentary and there are a few in the same vain. I watched one the other night, for about the third time and it starts with Brundel's big crash at Melbourne and saw that happen live, I thought he was gone; but he went on to get into the spare car.

The main issue with grass and gravel, in the car can dig-in and then flip or roll. That is where things get silly, but in my opinion the cars should be built for that and the destruction of the car, is the risk the driver takes, for pushing the limit. I am not saying the driver should be hurt, but there has to be a cost for failure, or errors in judgement. With most tracks, it adds if the driver is unlucky, a couple of seconds to their time; Brazil is different, as a few have said. A couple of years ago, it was the last corner, where drivers were losing it, this year it was somewhere else and made an idiot of the latest world champion. Man cannot plan for every eventuality, Senna for example, Sid Watkins said he did not have a mark on him. Just a suspension arm hit his helmet and centimetre difference and the guy would have walked away. It IS a dangerous sport and millions have been spent to make it safer, that needed to be spent. The technology filters down to the road user and everybody wins.

 

[Manticore]

Ultimately I would hope that no-one is hurt but, as you say, it's a dangerous sport.

Melbourne Grand Prix some years back; the Alonso crash when a loose tyre, wheel and suspension assembly killed a marshal. Yes it is a dangerous sport.