General / Off-Topic Freedom Of Speech

[Avago Earo]

Political comments are discouraged on these forums (kind of makes the point, anyway), but that's understandable, when things get too heated (for a gaming forum).

If we can put our leanings aside; do you value debate, or prefer silencing those that you disagree with?

Is there a line, that you think should not be crossed? Is ignorance bliss?

Would you tell your children, or if you don't have kids; the next generation: Don't look down the rabbit hole?

Would you have told children that it's impossible to land on the moon?

Do you think your voice is being muffled?

 

[Arry]

I don't have kids, but I would say that to tell anyone, that things are impossible to achieve; would limit their ambitions and therefore would not be a good thing. Everyone has to understand their limits, but at the same time; they should strive to push beyond those limits.

Yes agreed: Our voices are being muffled, controlled and dictated to, by the extreme minorities.

 

[Stigbob]

I like debate and I'm not a big fan of censorship, without it some really objectionable things will be spouted however. But by giving edge cases a platform you can listen and know what they are up to whilst running the risk of it becoming mainstream. Driving it underground through censorship adds an attraction (for some) and you can't get a true picture of the way people see things. Both those approaches can backfire badly and have in recent years.

On balance I'd just go with freedom of speech.

Not necessarily a good idea for this forum though.

 

[Avago Earo]

Yes agreed: Our voices are being muffled, controlled and dictated to, by the extreme minorities.

And those extreme minorities surround us from both 'sides'.

 

[Avago Earo]

I like debate and I'm not a big fan of censorship, without it some really objectionable things will be spouted however. But by giving edge cases a platform you can listen and know what they are up to whilst running the risk of it becoming mainstream. Driving it underground through censorship adds an attraction (for some) and you can't get a true picture of the way people see things. Both those approaches can backfire badly and have in recent years.

On balance I'd just go with freedom of speech.

Not necessarily a good idea for this forum though.

I share your concerns (and agree about this may not be suitable for these forums -we'll have to see how that goes; emotions are running high atm) about opinions getting sent to dark corners by the Head Master, so to speak. Whatever direction an opinion takes, it can be banished and fester and become something altogether nasty; from whatever place.

I don't think this thread will last for long, for the reasons I think that you were hinting at. I hope that my OP makes it clear to avoid a political position, even though that might sound ironic; given the title.

Correct me, if I got you wrong.

I don't think that I'm particularly unique, when I get excited at the sight of spring flowers. I don't think that it's just me, that gets a thrill from kissing someone. I don't think that I'm the only one that gets a buzz out of playing loud guitar in a band. I think a lot of us are the same. But we have to guard our language; our expressions, for fear of others in the periphery with a dictionary of weaponised phrases that silence any dissidence. Point a finger and say 'Phobia'; that's the winning poker hand.

 

[metatheurgist]

I'd prefer to keep the extraneous noise off game forums. There's plenty of other places for people to bleat about their pet causes.

 

[Avago Earo]

I'd prefer to keep the extraneous noise off game forums. There's plenty of other places for people to bleat about their pet causes.

So you commented here. Wow!

 

[metatheurgist]

Of course! I'm not making extraneous noise.

 

[Morbad]

I'm firmly on the side of virtually unrestricted freedom of speech and expression, with the only line being drawn at revealing private, personal, information, or deliberately spreading untruths.

How objectionable I, or anyone else, finds something is irrelevant to whether it should be permittable in public discourse.

Same goes with freedoms in general. I could never advocate the legal prohibition of any action that does not, in and of itself, create a victim, even if such actions indirectly result in, or contribute to, undesirable consequences.

Our voices are being muffled, controlled and dictated to, by the extreme minorities.

I've always felt more constrained by the opinions and dictates of the majority, as the majority nearly always has more power.

I'd prefer to keep the extraneous noise off game forums. There's plenty of other places for people to bleat about their pet causes.

This forum isn't a public space. It's Frontier's private property and they can limit it's content as they see fit. To suggest otherwise would be to advocate an unreasonable limitation on Frontier's freedom.

That said, this discussion, so far, seems to be well within the rules for 'General Discussion'.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Would you have told children that it's impossible to land on the moon?

This is a stupid question, since it is indeed possible to land on the moon.

 

[SMcA]

Freedom of Speech. There is no such thing. It is just an idea and not a very good one at that.

 

[Zetta]

I'm all for freedom of speech but it does have its limits. Having the right to say things does not mean people should be allowed to incite hate towards other people/ethnicities/minorities etc. Your far-right crowd bangs their drums about free speech but as soon as somebody like Choudray stands up they want to shut him up and kick him out of the country, aka free speech for me but not free speech for you....

 

[metatheurgist]

This forum isn't a public space. It's Frontier's private property and they can limit it's content as they see fit. To suggest otherwise would be to advocate an unreasonable limitation on Frontier's freedom.

That said, this discussion, so far, seems to be well within the rules for 'General Discussion'.

That's not the extraneous noise I was referring to. I was talking about the stuff FD doesn't allow, you know the subject of this topic.

 

[Stigbob]

I'm all for freedom of speech but it does have its limits. Having the right to say things does not mean people should be allowed to incite hate towards other people/ethnicities/minorities etc. Your far-right crowd bangs their drums about free speech but as soon as somebody like Choudray stands up they want to shut him up and kick him out of the country, aka free speech for me but not free speech for you....

If you drive it underground does that actually reduce it or just make it harder to track, or even attract (some) people simply because its forbidden.

I've an issue with the current trend of presenting issues "fairly" in the news. Say you have something contentious and very one sided like climate change denial, you get two talking heads one for each side and an interviewer making sure they both get to say their piece. It artificially adds gravitas to the bonkers one by making it appear 50/50.

To present that issue fairy and accurately you'd need hundreds of scientists against one guy wearing a sponsored by BP t-shirt. And they all should have equal air time. The way its done now in the interests of not being complained about is skewing issues.

 

[Yaffle]

There is a confusion between the right to speak and the right to be heard. It's fine to shout over someone, the shouter merely has a louder freedom of speech.

It also does not extend to private boards or similar. For example, if a visitor came to your house and arranged your fridge magnets to say 'vote for [a party you hate]' it would be fine for you to remove it, and as it's your house remove them as well if you wish.

There is, of course, an XKCD for everything - https://xkcd.com/1357/

 

[Morbad]

you know the subject of this topic.

I'm considerably less sure of the subject of this topic now.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Freedom of expression and debate are indispensable. Insults are not tolerated.

 

[verminstar]

Its always been about control...if someone doesnt like what yer saying and they have the power to stop it being said, then they stop it being said. They would rather nothing was said if they disagree with any opinion that differs from their own...political correctness is just a convenient excuse cos ye cant argue with that...thread closed cos of the snowflake factor.

Like I said, its all about control and keeping differing points of view to a bare minimum because if those with the power have something to say, they say it and theres nothing anyone can do about it.

Its like religion of old where yer not even permitted to speak of the rules openly...even discussing it openly is now seen as a crime. Using a world view instead of an echo chamber on the internet, many would argue this is why the world became a whole lot less fun to be in. One could argue that political correctness has caused more problems than it allegedly corrects...certainly feels that way to me.

So do I feel Im being silenced? Absolutely yes...in the real world that is...here Im a model poster and whatever the mods political views are, I agree with them 100%...thats what they wanted all along yes?

 

[Sir.Tj]

Political and religious discussion was allowed on the forum from the start for a number of years.

Problem was in recent times some people didn't want to discuss just shout down anyone who might have an opposing opinion and throw their toys out of the pram on a regular basis if things were not going their way.

It was a big decision and a lot of internal debate was had on which way to go, the end result was to cease all discussion on the topics.

It's a shame but there it is and I'd say that is not going to change anytime soon.

 

[GonzTheMalificent]

"Freedom of Speech! That's Motherloving Bullstuff, you say the wrong thing, they lock your posterior up quick"

To paraphrase the merely mortal Ice-T.