Friendly Fire? Die Respected Ally!!!

[shadragon]

Was at a NAV Beacon in a system that was allied to me. All of the security ships were green and I had engaged just under a dozen pirate vessels successfully for some decent bounties.

Went after a Wanted Python being nailed by three security ships. I began stripping off his shields while doing a KWS. An authority vessel Viper flew between me and the target getting clipped by one of my beams. No harm done to him, his shields didn't even flicker. However, every security ship turned red, they forgot about the Python (with 87,000 bounty) and went after me with a vengeance. I got a 400 Cr fine and WANTED status for eight minutes. Barely got out of there and had to jump to a nearby system to wait for the reset.

After 8 min had passed, I flew back to the original NAV point and finished my pirate killing mission. When done, I paid off the fine and collected the bounties at a local outpost after being greeted with "Welcome Respected Ally."

This seems a bit overkill to me. The 400 Cr fine I can't disagree with, but immediate wanted status for grazing a friend in battle is hardly common sense.

I'd propose that if you hit a friend, you get the 400 Cr fine and a five minute timer begins. If you hit another friend in that time it goes to 800 Cr fine and a ten minute timer starts. Hit a friend again, you get a 5,000 fine AND wanted status with one hour cool down.

Three strikes policy seems fairer to me and gives you the option to retreat to avoid further issues.

 

[Scudmungus]

Was at a NAV Beacon in a..

Same tin happen to mi.

Mi be tradin wid two stations - dey luv mi! But den...

''400 CR!?! KABLAM! DIE DIE DIE!"

Ok ok mi ded!

*return back to Station*

"WELCOME BACK RESPECTED ALLY!"

-.o I got noting to seh to yuh...

 

[CMDR i Tetsuo]

I was fighting in a resistance pocket last night when my target ducked a cannon shot which proceeded to hit a friendly ship that had just risen behind him, the friendly took a hit from a large weapon straight to the face and I got a comm message which basically said "hey watch out, I'm friendly!" but no-one turned on me. You must have just tipped over the trigger point between "no worries" and "frak you!"

 

[M00ka]

I am beginning to wonder about the so called Security Forces. Are the modelled after the Keystone Cops, or some redneck police force? Like the OP, I have seen all the available security chasing after some poor Commander with a 200 C bounty, blatantly ignoring higher ranked and higher valued Wanted targets that are actively attacking a clean ship. What, do they only take offense if one of them thinks they have been shot at? Are they that precious?

 

[Whiterose]

Was at a NAV Beacon in a system that was allied to me. All of the security ships were green and I had engaged just under a dozen pirate vessels successfully for some decent bounties.

Went after a Wanted Python being nailed by three security ships. I began stripping off his shields while doing a KWS. An authority vessel Viper flew between me and the target getting clipped by one of my beams. No harm done to him, his shields didn't even flicker. However, every security ship turned red, they forgot about the Python (with 87,000 bounty) and went after me with a vengeance. I got a 400 Cr fine and WANTED status for eight minutes. Barely got out of there and had to jump to a nearby system to wait for the reset.

After 8 min had passed, I flew back to the original NAV point and finished my pirate killing mission. When done, I paid off the fine and collected the bounties at a local outpost after being greeted with "Welcome Respected Ally."

This seems a bit overkill to me. The 400 Cr fine I can't disagree with, but immediate wanted status for grazing a friend in battle is hardly common sense.

I'd propose that if you hit a friend, you get the 400 Cr fine and a five minute timer begins. If you hit another friend in that time it goes to 800 Cr fine and a ten minute timer starts. Hit a friend again, you get a 5,000 fine AND wanted status with one hour cool down.

Three strikes policy seems fairer to me and gives you the option to retreat to avoid further issues.

This has happened to me many times, I tend to fire from distance which leads to these issues. I have no problem with fines, but when the agent of Satan who is being attacked suddenly becomes an Angel and everyone turns on me for scratching their paint that is what I think is wrong.

 

[Draxxen]

I'd say the Wanted status should only occur after you actually kill an ally. Police should leave me alone until they actually - beyond any doubt - know I intentionally am going for their behinds.
Anything up to that should be increasing fines.

 

[Sgt.Barnes]

This was supposed to be fixed in 1.3 so you had a little grace as too how many times you hit them by accident. I have hit them recently and not had that effect but I believe its cumulative so it should only trigger if you hit them multiple times. I have no idea though what the trigger level is though.

 

[Karakhian]

Was at a NAV Beacon in a system that was allied to me. All of the security ships were green and I had engaged just under a dozen pirate vessels successfully for some decent bounties.

Went after a Wanted Python being nailed by three security ships. I began stripping off his shields while doing a KWS. An authority vessel Viper flew between me and the target getting clipped by one of my beams. No harm done to him, his shields didn't even flicker. However, every security ship turned red, they forgot about the Python (with 87,000 bounty) and went after me with a vengeance. I got a 400 Cr fine and WANTED status for eight minutes. Barely got out of there and had to jump to a nearby system to wait for the reset.

After 8 min had passed, I flew back to the original NAV point and finished my pirate killing mission. When done, I paid off the fine and collected the bounties at a local outpost after being greeted with "Welcome Respected Ally."

This seems a bit overkill to me. The 400 Cr fine I can't disagree with, but immediate wanted status for grazing a friend in battle is hardly common sense.

I'd propose that if you hit a friend, you get the 400 Cr fine and a five minute timer begins. If you hit another friend in that time it goes to 800 Cr fine and a ten minute timer starts. Hit a friend again, you get a 5,000 fine AND wanted status with one hour cool down.

Three strikes policy seems fairer to me and gives you the option to retreat to avoid further issues.

Welllll, see the thing is, sure - you're a respected pilot, a pillar of the community in this jurisdiction (though god knows what depravity you get up to elsewhere). You've done some work for these people, and they like you. They consider you a buddy.

But does that mean that if you commit assault and murder, they won't apply the criminal penalty to you? A lot of people bring up being 'Allied' to a faction as making it non-sensical that they'd ever shoot at you. That sounds completely ridiculous to me. It's the faction you're allied to. Not every individual cop or authority pilot they employ - who probably consider you some up-jumped freelance despicable bounty hunter who is constantly getting in their way.

Just in case you don't know - there already is a certain level of friendly fire that is allowed before they consider it an assault. You have to not have the person you hit targeted (if they're targeted, they do not consider it accidental that you shot them), and a certain level of shield damage will be blown off as a mistake. They've already shifted the ground some to allow for accidental fire.

Look, try and look at it this way. You just rushed into the middle of a gun-battle between police and criminals. You started opening fire. You actually hit one of the police. Try to imagine what that would be like in real life. "Sorry I winged you when I rushed in trying to do your own job for you officer but surely I ought to get three strikes? I swear it was an accident".

Surely, it's your job to be really really careful, exercise fire discipline and watch your scope for nearby contacts? At the very least, you can see why they're liable to be unforgiving in the heat of the moment for what you did? You only need to leave for a short time and it becomes a fine. You actually shot a cop by accident when you just decided to jump into a gunfight unasked... which is an actual criminal offence, and it's really not for them to try to decide whether it was accidental or not. They'll just open up on you, and I can't see that that's unfair. They've done it to me often enough, and every single time, it was my fault. They had me bang to rights. Try to look at it from the cop's point of view.

And as for the faction - they'll still consider you an ally when you get back to the station. You just screwed up one time. Pay your fine, get on with it. They won't hate you for it, they're just enforcing the law.

I'm not getting at you - it's just there are some who already think the cops are pretty forgiving about 'friendly' fire. So there's that point of view to consider too.

 

[Ben Ryder]

Was at a NAV Beacon in a system that was allied to me. All of the security ships were green and I had engaged just under a dozen pirate vessels successfully for some decent bounties.

Went after a Wanted Python being nailed by three security ships. I began stripping off his shields while doing a KWS. An authority vessel Viper flew between me and the target getting clipped by one of my beams. No harm done to him, his shields didn't even flicker. However, every security ship turned red, they forgot about the Python (with 87,000 bounty) and went after me with a vengeance. I got a 400 Cr fine and WANTED status for eight minutes. Barely got out of there and had to jump to a nearby system to wait for the reset.

After 8 min had passed, I flew back to the original NAV point and finished my pirate killing mission. When done, I paid off the fine and collected the bounties at a local outpost after being greeted with "Welcome Respected Ally."

This seems a bit overkill to me. The 400 Cr fine I can't disagree with, but immediate wanted status for grazing a friend in battle is hardly common sense.

I'd propose that if you hit a friend, you get the 400 Cr fine and a five minute timer begins. If you hit another friend in that time it goes to 800 Cr fine and a ten minute timer starts. Hit a friend again, you get a 5,000 fine AND wanted status with one hour cool down.

Three strikes policy seems fairer to me and gives you the option to retreat to avoid further issues.

I think I saw a Dev post in the last few days saying this was fixed or in progress to be fixed soon...

 

[Karakhian]

I am beginning to wonder about the so called Security Forces. Are the modelled after the Keystone Cops, or some redneck police force? Like the OP, I have seen all the available security chasing after some poor Commander with a 200 C bounty, blatantly ignoring higher ranked and higher valued Wanted targets that are actively attacking a clean ship. What, do they only take offense if one of them thinks they have been shot at? Are they that precious?

I have always, from the very first game, considered the police in Elite's universe to be basically incompetent, corrupt, complacent and trigger-happy <censored>. I love that. The Elite universe is nasty. The authorities do not care about you. They'll happily blow up your ship for loitering. It's always been sold as a nasty dystopia.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

--- Deleted ---

 

[Karakhian]

I'd say the Wanted status should only occur after you actually kill an ally. Police should leave me alone until they actually - beyond any doubt - know I intentionally am going for their behinds.
Anything up to that should be increasing fines.

Are you sure? Have you thought this through?

"Look, we've had some complaints here at the precinct. So listen up, guys. From now on, if you get shot at, you mustn't assume they're out to get you. It could have been an accident. And then, if they keep shooting at you, well, it could still be accidental. What you guys have to do is wait till one of you is killed. Once one of you actually dies, well, maybe then you can defend yourselves. Any questions?"

Why is the onus on them to assume you had no malicious intent when you shot them?

- - - Updated - - -

I just think especially some bigger weapons (i.e. Multiple Class2 Lasers or a single Class 3 Weapon) currently can still easily trigger the Crime.

Had the same happen to me, not often, but two or three times some Eagle Police NPC managed to Afterburn from close range right through Beam Lasers - despite instantly releasing Trigger, still managed to get fined w/ Security reaction.
At another time, Class 3 Beams managed to miss a locked target @750m range somewhat.... and apparently hit a random NPC 2km behind it - same result.

No Wanted Status was incurred by the accidents - but still, I had to leave in a hurry.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is basically it. Especially true with something like a large Beam... it does so much shield damage that just running it for a split-second over a ship is enough to trigger the crime.

 

[shadragon]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is basically it. Especially true with something like a large Beam... it does so much shield damage that just running it for a split-second over a ship is enough to trigger the crime.

The beam in question was a 1E.

I don't think waiting until killing a security vessel would work. Some hull damage certainly, but a glancing hit to otherwise 100% shields? I'm fine with being fined for errant fire, its the instant 8 minute death sentence that concerns me.

I think I saw a Dev post in the last few days saying this was fixed or in progress to be fixed soon...

Cool. Look forward to that.

 

[Sendraks]

I would now like to see the line "Die! Respected Ally" added into the possible communications options for allied forces when you accidentally fire on them/they stupidly fly into your line of fire.

I'd also like to see "Sorry! Respected Ally" when you accidentally fly into their line of fire.

These changes would amuse me.

 

[Paladin220]

I think they do it to each other, too. A couple days ago BH'ing at a RES, all sorts of security forces around and we are killing off the pirates like normal. After I take down a pirate vessel, I see laser fire between a couple ships and I think "on to the next one". I scan both ships, and they are both security force ships fighting each other! Off to the side I see another couple fighting each other. I certainly wasn't going to choose sides at this point figuring if I shot either one they would all turn on me. I just left and went over to another RES where things were back to normal.