Friendly fire thread

Resolve friendly fire? Yay or Nay?

  • Yay

    Votes: 115 45.8%

  • Nay

    Votes: 101 40.2%

  • Eh?

    Votes: 35 13.9%
  • Total voters
    251

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
Yaffle
All

It seems to be quite a bone of contention that friendly fire can cause the destruction of the person who accidentally shot another on their side.

The issue is that when threads on this topic appear the two entrenched sides soon descend to name calling, sniping and generally anti-social behaviour.

Here's a new idea. If you want to discuss friendly fire, do so in here. Starting a new thread on it will just be merged (if practical) or closed (if not).

Any sniping, baiting, accusatory remarks will be infracted - no warnings.

Any pointless meme pictures or dead horse references will be infracted - no warnings.

Now, feel free to discuss the topic but please leave discussing each other out of it. If you think a post is trolling or otherwise disrespectful, DO NOT reply to it. Report it and either move to another thread, or if you can reply to any part addressing the topic.

Thank you, and enjoy the debate.

A suggestion from within the thread:

Lestat said:
Hay Yaffle Maybe you should post on the main topic. Ways some players avoid hitting other ships.

Few things that come to mind.
Radar.
Sound
Disabling calling for help and such.
Click to expand...
 
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Yabba Addict

Yabba Addict
(copy pasted from one of my other posts, not gonna type out yet another one for this)
The only bounties I've incurred for ages is preemptive firing on criminals before scanning them. It's all in the scanner. If you switch it over to linear and have it set 2 notches above minimum sensor strength it becomes alot easier to read exactly who is where. The main inner circle is about 1 km so it becomes a doddle avoiding friendly fire. I've setup my x52 so that as soon as I enter combat mode my sensors readjust automatically.
Don't you dare make this game any easier than you already have!
 
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Whiterose

Whiterose
I occasionally hit someone dim enough to fly through my fire zone. Its only 100 credits fine, and i get a lot more from the bounty so I just treat it as one of those things, its not something worth throwing the toys out of your cot about. Crap happens in real life, you just grin and bear it.
 

snotface

snotface
it is a shame that people cannot agree over "friendly fire"

I have suffered from both being hit by friendly fire and hitting npc's with friendly fire. It is a hazard of the job when killing pirates.

you have a choice when to fire your weapons, and when to stop firing them. If you get a wanted(bounty) go to a platform station and get it removed. Do Not go to a normal station as they may kill you.

At stations you leave at your own risk.. Just like any game you must be prepared to be attacked at any point during the GAME.

Pointless flaming and trolling gets people nowhere.

Remember this is JUST A GAME!!!
 

Schlack

S
Getting a bounty for ff is one of the few opportunities currently in the game for emergent gameplay. While its unforgiving nature can be a pain in the backside it does place clear choices in the hands of the player, and lead to (often harsh) consequences as a result of player agency.

Do i stick around and finish this annaconda? Is there an outpost where I can dock, do i try the station? Not enough fuel to make another system - head for fuel scooping and potential interdiction. What about my hold full of stolen gear? Sod it, should I just go rogue altogether?

Heading off to a station to clear your bounty is seen as an annoyance, but it is a result of a particular player choice. As is losing everything because of sticking around or choosing to go to a station in a high sec area.
 
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Ben Ryder

Ben Ryder
Excellent Job Yaffle!

My thoughts on friendly fire.

1) The players are not the police.
2) The police have jurisdiction, right of way and the law on their side.
3) The players are opportunistic bounty hunters, vigilantes and civilians / non-law enforcement military.
4) When the police are in a fight the players must give way.
5) If you shoot a police officer by accident or not, it makes sense for them to shoot back and put an all points bulletin on your head. A WANTED status not an ASBO.
6) Saying sorry is not enough. Shoot an armed police officer in a fight with a felon and I doubt they will give you a ticket to pay off.
7) STOP firing if you think you might hit an officer of the Law. They do not know who's side you are on, shooting them gives them a clue.
8) It is unrealistic to think that shooting a police officer should be a minor offence. You dont get many thing more serious in the eyes of the Law.
9) Hold your fire and fly / shoot smart.
10) Would every body please stop getting shot as a result of their actions (you pull the trigger so don't blame someone for getting shot by your bullets etc). :eek:

Have fun and if you are not very good, then take it easy and practice :D
 
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Siklid

S
A simple friendly shot should just be a warning (a fine), not a direct bounty. Of course if you keep friendly shooting a same target, then a bounty.
Just my opinion.
 

Bigcheese

B
The way AI currently handles a stray shot it at odds with the current design of the game.

Combat is very close quarters and things like turrets will shot at anything. In most games it's not that big of a deal because the AI can recognize it was an accident by warning you.

The AI ships also have no awareness in terms of flying directly into friendly fire, which makes the issue even more prevalent.

A simple warning is a standard convention in these types of games and is even more needed in Elite due to the combat setup and how AI ships fly.
 

cptzipzap

C
1 * 10^-999999999999 damage is not the same as 1 * 10^999999999999



there should be a distinction relative to weapon used and ship hit!




when I have an atomic weapon i should be more careful. when i accidentially hit a paper ship with a gun aswell.

when i hit a castle with my toy gun I shouldnt be WANTED for that.



unbenanntz9us6.jpg
 
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Bigcheese

B
Yabba Addict said:
Most of the player base has little to no awareness of other ships aswell, judging by all these threads. Maybe they made the AI too realistic :p
Click to expand...

The number of threads exist because the AI really is quite bad in terms of flying in front of you. Far worse than players, in my opinion. You couldn't do a better job of getting in the way if you tried.

It is not accurate to place the blame entirely on players in regards to this issue. Gotta remember turrets as well, we can't even use them currently. They are too much of a liability unless you constantly micromanage the functions menu. Although this could be remedied by giving us more control over how and when turrets fire.

To me, the question is should a single stray shot lead to a death warrant. I think the answer is no.
 
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Dixie

D
Hey,

Personally speaking, I'm not seeing a problem. Because of the cargo hold bug ive been doing nothing but bounty hunting at nav beacons for the past four days. I claimed 275 bounties so far, and only once did I accidentally hit an authority vessel. I immediately went to an outpost, paid off my bounty and that was that.

I dont find it hard to hold my fire, or fire in short bursts, when I know authority vessels are also engaging my target.

That I dont see a problem doesnt mean there isnt one though. Just my 2 credits...

Cheers,
 

anikaiful

anikaiful
Just tune the AI to be a bit more situationally aware, but otherwise I see everything in respect to friendly fire be as it should. Without bounty ...it'd just make people pay no attention whatsoever in combat for what they shoot and when and why.

Best fix is just to learn trigger discipline - and a 100-400 bounty is so very easy to get rid of that it might as well be counted as negilible.
 
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Bigcheese

B
anikaiful said:
Just tune the AI to be a bit more situationally aware, but otherwise I see everything in respect to friendly fire be as it should. Without bounty ...it'd just make people pay no attention whatsoever in combat for what they shoot and when and why.

Best fix is just to learn trigger discipline - and a 100-400 bounty is so very easy to get rid of that it might as well be counted as negilible.
Click to expand...

It doesn't to be "instant death warrant" or "no consequences". Trigger discipline also does not acknowledge the problem. Accidents can and will happen, especially in crowded fights and nearly guaranteed if you use turrets.

I'd recommend a simple warning. A standard convention in the genre. Yes, we can continue to work around things like this, but is the game better as a result? I don't think so, really breaks immersion when the AI swoops through a laser beam and they all turn on you. Makes them look silly. It's also easy to get away, this isn't a difficulty issue.
 

Mixxi Pal

Mixxi Pal
Ben Ryder said:
Excellent Job Yaffle!

My thoughts on friendly fire.

1) The players are not the police.
2) The police have jurisdiction, right of way and the law on their side.
3) The players are opportunistic bounty hunters, vigilantes and civilians / non-law enforcement military.
4) When the police are in a fight the players must give way.
5) If you shoot a police officer by accident or not, it makes sense for them to shoot back and put an all points bulletin on your head. A WANTED status not an ASBO.
6) Saying sorry is not enough. Shoot an armed police officer in a fight with a felon and I doubt they will give you a ticket to pay off.
7) STOP firing if you think you might hit an officer of the Law. They do not know who's side you are on, shooting them gives them a clue.
8) It is unrealistic to think that shooting a police officer should be a minor offence. You dont get many thing more serious in the eyes of the Law.
9) Hold your fire and fly / shoot smart.
10) Would every body please stop getting shot as a result of their actions (you pull the trigger so don't blame someone for getting shot by your bullets etc). :eek:

Have fun and if you are not very good, then take it easy and practice :D
Click to expand...

That is absolutely ludicrous. Think about it? I start going for a wanted ship - I am clean and as I said on the previous thread: It's VERY reasonable to assume I am a bounty hunter which is a perfectly legitimate profession (they can scan me perhaps and see I have over 1 million collected in bounties) in the universe we've been put in. You're talking about the "police" like it's 2015. This galaxy is very different is it not? If you have "report crimes" turned on then the security ships swarm in - often sticking their heads in your laser/gun fire as you're trying to finish a target.

As I said to the other fella... in your view these security ships which have apparently come to your aid... now decide you're actually far more worthy of death than the bloody criminal they've been watching you kill after you've gently brushed their shields after THEY fly in front of you? It's mental.
 

Bigcheese

B
It is kind of crazy when you are more worried about friendly AI than hostile AI. I agree they currently react in a manner which makes very little sense.
 
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