Frontier Elite 2 as Elite Dangerous, It could have worked...

[Kingtutuk]

I have been playing ED for almost a year now and think it is an excellent game graphically but with a lot of limitations. I think Frontier had the base game for ED already with Frontier Elite 2, which i also still play, all they had to do was bring it up to date. I would like to know if they considered this option, and if so, why it was rejected, I hope it was not because of a possible lack of revenue. FE 2 had the "multicrew" passengers and planetary landings, granted it was limited, but look at them now with Horizons, put that in an updated FE 2 as ED, that would have been well worth a console game price tag and "multicrew" a "future update". That could have worked well in FE 2 as ED, the possibilities would have been almost endless.
I am sure with the amount of backers they had, FE 2 would have made an excellent ED and they could still have had their seasons of updates.

I would also like to add, as has been posted in many threads, that Frontier developments should be more focused on fixing the base game everyone plays rather than focusing on fixing their latest season updates.

Thanks in advance for reading.

I hope Frontier Devs read this and the other threads from disillusioned and disappointed Commanders.

 

[F4ANTOM]

Didn't David Braben have to 'buy out' the other partner in the Elite way back to get this project started? If so, maybe they couldn't just port FE 2 to avoid paying the other guy royalties?

 

[Kingtutuk]

I think it would have been worth in the long run.

 

[ZeeWolf]

Would you want all of the compromises from a 20 year old game in an updated version?

The asteroid mining was non existent, combat was fairly boring, exploring was pointless and did nothing, no multi-player of any kind.

You'd also have to have the basic ship models and lack of cockpits and interiors. It's unlikely that Frontier would have been able to churn out that many high fidelity replacements which is why ED still has less ships. Half the ships in FE2 are completely pointless.

There is a reasonable fan made version called Pioneer. Personally there are still a few mechanics from the previous games that I'd like to see return and they most probably will (passengers are certainly coming and we'll have multi-player multi-crew during season 2) but I don't think a remake would have been the way to go. People had been waiting for a true sequel.

 

[Lianachan]

Would you want all of the compromises from a 20 year old game in an updated version?

The asteroid mining was non existent, combat was fairly boring, exploring was pointless and did nothing, no multi-player of any kind.

You'd also have to have the basic ship models and lack of cockpits and interiors. It's unlikely that Frontier would have been able to churn out that many high fidelity replacements which is why ED still has less ships. Half the ships in FE2 are completely pointless.

There is a reasonable fan made version called Pioneer. Personally there are still a few mechanics from the previous games that I'd like to see return and they most probably will (passengers are certainly coming and we'll have multi-player multi-crew during season 2) but I don't think a remake would have been the way to go. People had been waiting for a true sequel.

I think the OP is suggesting that the gameplay of FE2 would have been a good foundation upon which to build ED, not that ED should have been FE2 with modern graphics.

 

[ZeeWolf]

I think the OP is suggesting that FE2 the gameplay of FE2 would have been a good foundation upon which to build ED, not that ED should have been FE2 with modern graphics.

Isn't that what we have? The main difference being the flight model which IMHO is more accessible.

What is it specifically from FE2 that ED isn't built on? We're missing atmospheric landings, crew, passengers and mining machines but most of those have already been confirmed. You couldn't take the mission system from FE2 and put it straight into a multi-player game because it relied somewhat on stardreamer. I know missions felt better in FE2 but I can appreciate that they are attempting to improve them with recent additions such as timed missions being directly ripped from FE2 and FFE.

I think if they'd made a single player remake of FE2 it would have been a little known indie title that probably would have slipped into obscurity. ED is the most successful game in the series and has now outsold all of the other games.

One thing I do miss from previous Elite games is having multiple commander slots. I think its somewhat telling that there aren't so many younger people interested in ED and perhaps that's because the family computer isn't allowing them to play on Dad's account.

 

[Kingtutuk]

I think the OP is suggesting that the gameplay of FE2 would have been a good foundation upon which to build ED, not that ED should have been FE2 with modern graphics.

Thanks for your reply but I was thinking a bit of both.

 

[almostpilot]

I hope Frontier Devs read this and the other threads from disillusioned and disappointed Commanders.

Read I believe they read. But they just do what they think we want and not really what we want.

 

[louks]

I totally know and appreciate where you're coming from, as I adore Frontier: Elite 2 (FE2), and is the primary reason I am here. These have been discussed before, but I'll try to quickly summarize what I know.

There are two major obstacles in preventing this game from being able to start at the "FE2" level. The first one is the online multiplayer component. In Frontier, there was a single game engine that handled planets, space, stations, combat, and "high speed transit". It's important to remember that in FE2, there was no Frame Shift Drive - we moved at "regular" speeds, but the illusion of time was altered to get us from A to B in less Player time. With online play, that can't happen, as time has to be the same for everyone...it could no longer take a week to travel the max distance of your drive, and hours or days to get from one end of a system to another, even apparently. Our clocks would get all out of sync. Sychronized clocks also lead to "speed limits" when it comes to combat and such - if we were all moving extremely fast in combat, being able to hit someone would be effectively impossible, as each time step on the server would cover too much ground to resolve whether your laser shot was in the same point at the same time. That's why we have speed limits and combat is not allowed in "frame shift".

The second obstacle is that of the scale on which the galaxy has been created. Most of FE2 planets were just a couple of crater splash textures of a few splines or a mountain here or there. In Elite Dangerous, they wanted to flesh out every square foot of planets, vastly increasing the load on generation. The other thing they wanted to do is have multiplayer have feedback into the galaxy model, from names to discovery rights to station building. Because they didn't have time to build fully-fleshed out atmosphere, terrain, and landing model for the galaxy at the time of release (again, multiplayer is what they focused on because that was the key ingredient was felt to be 'missing' from FE2), they couldn't include a holistically-procedurally-generated galaxy to start.

Sure, we look at No Man's Sky and think, "if they can do it, why couldn't Frontier?" I feel the answer lies in the level of "realism-based" detail Frontier Developments wanted in their universe, and the way they have been building the game from the inside-out. I'll be very interested to see No Man's Sky and how it handles flight mechanics, atmospheres, and planetary travel. I think they'll be making some simplifications and defying physics to make it "fun", and I hope there are some features Frontier Developments can take from it while still keeping the brand of "real space" I like.

I hope this alleviates some of your questions. Let me know if I can clarify any explanation.

 

[Iskariot]

I think Frontier had the base game for ED already with Frontier Elite 2, which i also still play, all they had to do was bring it up to date.

I do not believe you realize what you are saying here.
Update a game that was build with antiquated tech from 1993?
Are you even serious?
In what way, what universe, what dimension would that even make sense?

Are you blind to the possibilities of the current game? They surpass Frontier Elite 2 in ways that are almost incomprehensible.

And I hope you do realize that this huge project is in the midst of development and that it is a ten year project?

but I don't think a remake would have been the way to go. People had been waiting for a true sequel.

Don't pretend to speak for "people".
I am 'people' and I disagree wholeheartedly.
This is a true sequel in every sense of the word, but with tech so superior to what Frontier Elite 2 used they need of course to remake the fundamental systems and as far as I am concerned FD is doing a great job.
FD still has a long way to go, but that is why it is a ten year project after all.

 

[Kingtutuk]

Iskariot, I hope you realise that I am allowed to put my thoughts and opinions in posts, as are you. But there is no need to put someone down "me", for saying what they think or have an opinion on.

 

[Chummy62]

Please see the thread I started "AI or Human? What David accomplished 23 years ago with 400 KB of Code."

You should consider reporting Iskariot.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Read I believe they read. But they just do what they think we want and not really what we want.

Actually, the idea in the KS was that they would do what they themselves wanted to do.

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Iskariot, I hope you realise that I am allowed to put my thoughts and opinions in posts, as are you. But there is no need to put someone down "me", for saying what they think or have an opinion on.

Dont worry, they think their opinion matters more because they have more green bars. :/

The actual content level is still shallow and the whatever content there is has either been around since Alpha/Beta or is very bland/basic.
"OH WOWEE WOWOW! We can land on planets and... and ... and sift through more Unidentified Signals. Awesome~ -____-"

There are only two types of missions in the game... Hauling and Killing. "Go here and find this" is just a haul mission. "Take this and go there" is a haul mission. "Go there and kill this guy" obviously a kill mission.
"go to this base and scan this" plays just like a kill mission (assuming the mission objective isnt broke).

Imo the game is still a little disappointing.

 

[Kingtutuk]

Not worried

 

[Ydiss]

I wouldn't have bought ED if it was just FE2 with new graphics. The combat was awful.

 

[louks]

...
The actual content level is still shallow and the whatever content there is has either been around since Alpha/Beta or is very bland/basic.
"OH WOWEE WOWOW! We can land on planets and... and ... and sift through more Unidentified Signals. Awesome~ -____-"

There are only two types of missions in the game... Hauling and Killing. "Go here and find this" is just a haul mission. "Take this and go there" is a haul mission. "Go there and kill this guy" obviously a kill mission.
"go to this base and scan this" plays just like a kill mission (assuming the mission objective isnt broke).

Imo the game is still a little disappointing.

I don't think FE2 was much different in that respect, and most MMO's are not that much different, either. It's tough finding a level of interaction with an environmental system that doesn't ultimately boil down to "kill" or "transport". Little bits of what I like to call "texture" are crucial in making a game like this feel more immersive.

There really are a lot of things to do and see; I've only just scraped the surface of mining, trading, and missions (in all their current forms). I like the expanded multi-part missions, as they have some level of uncertainty, but I found the rescue missions to be a bit too daunting and have a "vigilante" aspect to them that doesn't suit my play style.

Little features from FE2, like needing specific "passenger compartments", Shipyard variety, remote mining machines, and even procedural human faces to go with Bulletin Board requests can add a lot to the game, and I'm positive those little details will start trickling in. If this is a 10-year project, I figure we're about 20% or less feature-complete. They really are working hard on securing the foundations of the game system before they start fleshing out the details that will make it feel like a home instead of just a house. This year's Horizons is going to be a big push on that "window dressing". I'm excited to see where we go with this expansion!