Frontier: Make the expansion discount permanent

FuzzySpider · Aug 5, 2015

Frontier, developers, men and women of computers, lend me your ears!

I'm hacked off right now. Yes, I am, but don't just sigh wearily and go to another thread. Please read on. This isn't an insult laden rant.

I'm hacked off because I've seen the price of this expansion, and I realized that after a year of Elite I'm being asked to fork out for it again to continue to be a part of it. I'm hacked, and I am fully aware that this may be a childish overreaction. Like any man who isn't yet 127 years old, dead, and free from Samsara (I'll manage that next time around) I am capable of such idiocy.

It's fully possible, probably probable, that I'm going to be less hacked off in time and more likely to come around to the idea that you've all got to feed yourselves and a few tenners for a years worth of good game content isn't a lot to ask.

But here is the thing guys, myself and everyone else here have supported you. We've stuck with the game, we've played it, we've paid for it, and we're still around. We've helped, with our little pounds and pennies, bring you to where you are now.

I'm not asking for free stuff for doing that, I'm just asking you to please acknowledge that. Acknowledge that your fans and followers are valuable to you, and that you want us to come with you in the future of this game and where it leads.

A timed preorder discount is an extra slap in the face. Far from telling me that you value my custom, you're telling me to hurry up and open my wallet sooner rather than later, or I can just off and sit with all the Johnny-come-latelys.

Because it's not an acknowledgement of my contribution, it is a marketing gimmick intended to get me to spend now rather than later. That's all it is, nothing more nothing less, please don't insult us any further by pretending this discount has anything to do us being loyal fans.

Make that discount permanent and you do three things:

1. You make sure that those of us who wouldn't touch a Frontier product right now due to having an overly emotional buyers tantrum can return to the fold later without feeling like we've been short changed by you (you don't want that resentment in the future trust me).

2. You tell us that you have faith that your product will be well received after it is released, and you're not just ramping up pre-orders because you don't believe it will be a popular purchase on its own merits.

3. You're telling us that, no matter what time we want to come back to Elite, what we contributed in times past isn't forgotten. You're telling us that you have pride in having fans, and you don't just drop them because they aren't willing to keep on throwing money at your way.

Make that discount permanent and you're telling us that your relationship with long term fans is about more than just your bottom line.

EDIT:

https://www.frontierstore.net/games...er.html?_ga=1.205656656.2115569020.1438792048

For a limited time all existing Elite: Dangerous players will receive a £10 loyalty discount plus the exclusive Cobra Mark IV ship when ordering Elite Dangerous: Horizons through the Frontier Store. Discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

Bokugo · Aug 5, 2015

Apparently FD is telling everyone to NOT buy the game or expansions yet when you can just get them for free later.

Monk · Aug 5, 2015

Yeah...the price (and strategy) is a bit shocking...I only hope it is backed up by a TRUE wealth of content.

I guess, when I look at it...the return of the lifetime pass is the real bone being tossed our way...not the discount.

-Beta backer who missed the first lifetime pass by one day

nosscar · Aug 5, 2015

Bravo....Bravo......Shut-up you at the back.

Theodrid · Aug 5, 2015

Well said FuzzyS and agree entirely, I'm not particularly upset about the cost, (kind of expected to be honest), I am happy that planetary landings are incoming, (was a major hole in the Elite experience for me), but there does seem to be a disregard, (all too common these days in many industries), for older customers and customer loyalty.

(Edit :- +rep to the Fuzzy one)

CMDR Atmosfera · Aug 5, 2015

wasnt the game less than 50 bucks
i mean dont spend it if its too much nobody asking you to
if you like the game then put money into it
quite simple concept

beelbeebub · Aug 5, 2015

Hang on, the expansion cost is £40 less the £10 discount for being an existing user. I don't see any preorder timed bit on the existing discount. That is to say if you wait until horizons is launched, then upgrade it will still cost £40 less £10 i.e £30.
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That doesn't seem unreasonable, if you don't want to pay then stick with the base release. According to FD it will still work, you just won't be able to land on planets. If you are chasing someone who can you won't be able to follow, but that's all.

M.E.A.T · Aug 5, 2015

Monk said:
Yeah...the price (and strategy) is a bit shocking...I only hope it is backed up by a TRUE wealth of content.

I guess, when I look at it...the return of the lifetime pass is the real bone being tossed our way...not the discount.

-Beta backer who missed the first lifetime pass by one day

I am contemplating whether to buy a second account with lifetime season pass here.

Evil · Aug 5, 2015

Dont mind on the discount tbh its only £10 or something, the thing is I dont know what i'm paying for and since its hush hush, im a bit confused?? Just have to wait it out.

SpitTheDog · Aug 5, 2015

Money now is worth more than money later.

Early Bird Discounts are all over the place.

I backed at KickStarter and get it all for nothing more.

You're just jealous.

MikeSnos · Aug 5, 2015

Oh get a grip...

The model's a standard in the gaming industry these days... WoW expect people to pay for expansions left right and centre... they have to earn their money somehow...

If you wanted free expansions in perpetuity you should have stumped up in Alpha or Beta... Miss the bus then repent at leisure... S happens, get over it.

Spanksh · Aug 5, 2015

Woah woah woah hold your horses. Just one second. Wasn't the discount for everyone owning the game, no matter when you buy the expansion? It doesn't say anything about it only being limited to a certain time.
"all existing Elite Dangerous players will receive a £10 loyalty discount off the Horizons retail price"

I don't see where anyone, who owns the game has to pay the full price there. Or am I just blind or suddenly incapable of understanding simple english sentences?

Don't get me wrong, this is a genuine question. Where is that statement that the discount is only for preorder, because I honestly want to know. I didn't plan to preorder and certainly won't be happy to not receive the discount later even though I was clearly promised it in the announcement.

FuzzySpider · Aug 5, 2015

CMDR Atmosfera said:
wasnt the game less than 50 bucks
i mean dont spend it if its too much nobody asking you to
if you like the game then put money into it
quite simple concept

That's a very simple concept, thank you for your contribution.

I am discussing the more complex concept of consumer relations, not corporate profit.

MikeSnos said:
Oh get a grip...

The model's a standard in the gaming industry these days... WoW expect people to pay for expansions left right and centre... they have to earn their money somehow...

If you wanted free expansions in perpetuity you should have stumped up in Alpha or Beta... Miss the bus then repent at leisure... S happens, get over it.

1. The post went to great pains to explain that I don't want free stuff, so go back and read it again or don't post about things which nobody has said.

2. The entire point of this thread is that Frontier shouldn't follow the "industry standard" for gaming, which is treating the consumerbase as walking credit cards and nothing more.

Spanksh said:
Woah woah woah hold your horses. Just one second. Wasn't the discount for everyone owning the game, no matter when you buy the expansion? It doesn't say anything about it only being limited to a certain time.
"all existing Elite Dangerous players will receive a £10 loyalty discount off the Horizons retail price"

I don't see where anyone, who owns the game has to pay the full price there. Or am I just blind or suddenly incapable of understanding simple english sentences?

beelbeebub said:
Hang on, the expansion cost is £40 less the £10 discount for being an existing user. I don't see any preorder timed bit on the existing discount. That is to say if you wait until horizons is launched, then upgrade it will still cost £40 less £10 i.e £30.
:
That doesn't seem unreasonable, if you don't want to pay then stick with the base release. According to FD it will still work, you just won't be able to land on planets. If you are chasing someone who can you won't be able to follow, but that's all.

Here you go:

https://www.frontierstore.net/games...er.html?_ga=1.205656656.2115569020.1438792048

For a limited time all existing Elite: Dangerous players will receive a £10 loyalty discount plus the exclusive Cobra Mark IV ship when ordering Elite Dangerous: Horizons through the Frontier Store.

Spanksh · Aug 5, 2015

FuzzySpider said:
Here you go:

https://www.frontierstore.net/games...er.html?_ga=1.205656656.2115569020.1438792048

Thanks a lot, haven't seen that yet. Now that's some major in my opinion. They clearly made it sound a lot different in the official announcement.

Soliluna · Aug 5, 2015

CMDR Atmosfera said:
wasnt the game less than 50 bucks
i mean dont spend it if its too much nobody asking you to
if you like the game then put money into it
quite simple concept

Why would he be posting here if he didn't like the game. That seems like an even simpler concept than the ridiculous oversimplification of consumer reasoning that you have purported; if the creator of this game was a known arms trafficker who used the profits to help fund coups and conflicts would it still be a case of "I like this game, so I'm going to buy it."?

Or would you say "I like this product, but I want to know the money I am giving is not going to be funding a third-world arms race".

Or in a less extreme example, "Am I valued as a customer? Because this deal you are offering suggests you value new customers more than your return customers."

Heaven forbid people should question companies or the reasons behind their actions. What will the world become?

Theodrid · Aug 5, 2015

MikeSnos said:
Oh get a grip...

The model's a standard in the gaming industry these days... WoW expect people to pay for expansions left right and centre... they have to earn their money somehow...

If you wanted free expansions in perpetuity you should have stumped up in Alpha or Beta... Miss the bus then repent at leisure... S happens, get over it.

Mike, you have completely missed the point Fuzzy is making.

New Duke · Aug 5, 2015

Rep to you Fuzzy and well said. All the 'it's great value even though I don't know what it will contain' and 'well other games are cost more' posts are melting my brain today and mostly missing the point.

During the Kickstarter I remember lots of self righteous talk from FD about it meaning they would be better and not like other publishers. Funny how that worked out.

RGS · Aug 5, 2015

To be honest I've felt from near the beginning that FD have handled this side of things poorly.

£30-40 per year to keep up to date with an online game you like (if you want to that is) isn't an awful lot assuming the content's decent, but there's something about the way they handle these things that always seems to leave a bad taste in my mouth. First time I got that feeling was with the way Offline Mode was dropped (not that it was dropped, just the way it was handled) and there have been more times since then when I've felt a little uncomfortable with the way they've gone about things. I've not spent a fortune on the game as some have, but a decent amount; £50 Standard Beta and a single £10 paint.

Though I've not played Elite for a few months now, I'll almost certainly pick up Horizons as I like the game and planetary landings are a big deal to me. I just don't get that 'good vibe' out of FD as I do with some other devs and that's mainly down to the way they go about selling their product - It just feels a bit too openly money-grubbing to me. Rightly or wrongly, I just don't feel that I can trust them.

Heck, I want FD to make money and don't expect this stuff for free or cheap even (I also don't want to see a subscription model...), but there's a way to sell things that makes people feel happy to part with their money and a way not to and in FD's case it's usually the latter (IMO anyway!).

beelbeebub · Aug 5, 2015

For a limited time all existing Elite: Dangerous players will receive a £10 loyalty discount plus the exclusive Cobra Mark IV ship when ordering Elite Dangerous: Horizons through the Frontier Store.

:
We should get clarification but that could be read as
:

For a limited time all existing Elite: Dangerous players will receive [the standard] £10 loyalty discount plus the exclusive Cobra Mark IV ship when ordering Elite Dangerous: Horizons through the Frontier Store.

I.e. the limited time reward is the Cobra IV in addition to the £10 discount which you get for pre owning regardless of purchase timing.
:
I admit the wording is unclear, and if the £10 discount for existing players were time limited then FuzzySpiders arguments would be valid.
:
Can we just get clarification? It would be nice to get the facts straight before grabbing our pitchforks (I know this is probably a novel concept on internet forums

)

Calebe · Aug 5, 2015

Honestly I can't believe the entitlement mentality of some. They had a lifetime expansion pass during the Kickstarter, they had it after it finished. It was in the store nd then eventually removed. Many thought it was a great deal and bought it, some by their own admission hesitated and waited to long and missed out. Michael Brooks made the point that the price for the expansion pack was to cheap. He was right and now the lifetime expansion package is now available again and it is priced appropriately if you feel there will be enough expansions made in the future, if not buy them individually as they come out. If you were around at that time many asked for it to be made available again and those who had it said we doubt it, it is their revenue stream. Of course at that point we thought it would be the same price they offered at the time.
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So what happens they offer the lifetime expansion pack but at a high price that will save money in the long run, and if only want the expansion they are giving a limited discount on the price. Now here is the point that many are missing. They could have said this is the price for the expansion, and not re-offer the lifetime expansion. I doubt anyone here would say hey wait a minute, why can't we get a discount and have a leg to stand on. Anyone with the game without the expansion pass buys the expansion or not as they wish. Everyone with the game treated equally. You don't own the game you buy the game, and then pre-buy the expansion or not, as the price is the same now or on release or 6 months after. It would be the same for everyone.
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So what does FD do? They say ok if you pre-buy it you get a 10 pound discount for a limited time, and at a higher price offer what many asked for a chance to rebuy the lifetime expansion pass. So the usual happens some and moan. Why is it a limited time, why not permanent? I own the game I supported it. So why limit the discount? Fact is, yes you supported the game, so did any and everyone playing the game support it. Your no more special then the person who bought the game today or tomorrow or buy it and passed on the expansion pass. Why do you feel entitled to a permanent discount when you had the option to buy the lifetime expansion pass and had pledged to get the game but not the pass? If you joined after it was removed, why would you feel entitled to get something you missed? If you feel you are for some reason, then any and every business in the world should never put anything on sale, because people would say hey I missed the sale so give me that price anyway. I missed it but it was your mistake for making the sale window to short, by a day, a week, a month, or almost a year. It is your fault I didn't know about it.
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Please for once say thank you for the chance to get a discount on the expansion, and even a bigger thank you for bring back the lifetime expansion pass if you missed it the first time and think it is still a good value. Stop the why are you dissing me attitude, if they didn't even offer an 10 off for a limited time people would say. Hey do it even for a limited time as we supported you. Yes I could see that happening if no discount was offered.
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Calebe