Frontier needs to decide: Game or Simulation

[Anopheles]

Right now it's in a no man's land that is forcing Frontier to make sub optimal decisions.

If it's a game put in game elements like instantly arrIving security in appropriate systems or credit transfer (and no it won't make gold farmers magically appear like scum goblins).

If it's a simulation of being a pilot in a living universe then commit to that and let players be more intimately involved in the politics or build their own stations outside the bubble and so on.

Right now, Frontier, you're trying to please everyone and it's not working.

The good news is that you can have a 'game' and a 'simulation' at the same time by replacing Solo and Open with Game (with the pvp flag some of you want) and Simulation (Player Group could have a slider for more gamey or more simulationy).

Decide, Frontier, decide

 

[babelfisch]

They always said it's a game and not a simluation.
I believe what you actually want to say is they need to decide if it's an arcade game or a hardcore game. I think it's absolutely no arcade game so to me it looks like they already decided.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Decide, Frontier, decide

They did - over five years ago.

.... and everyone either bought or backed that game.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

They always said it's a game and not a simluation.
I believe what you actually want to say is they need to decide if it's an arcade game or a hardcore game. I think it's absolutely no arcade game so to me it looks like they already decided.

It tries to strike to be exciting game about space which is approachable by both casual and hardcore players.

And yes, they decided what they wanted to be 5 years during KS and shortly after that.

 

[Enderby]

It tries to strike to be exciting game about space....

But fails.

 

[Robert Maynard]

But fails.

In the opinion of some, no doubt.

 

[babelfisch]

It tries to strike to be exciting game about space which is approachable by both casual and hardcore players.

And yes, they decided what they wanted to be 5 years during KS and shortly after that.

If you take a look at most negative steam reviews you realise that there can't be much casual about it

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Right now it's in a no man's land that is forcing Frontier to make sub optimal decisions.

If it's a game put in game elements like instantly arrIving security in appropriate systems or credit transfer (and no it won't make gold farmers magically appear like scum goblins).

If it's a simulation of being a pilot in a living universe then commit to that and let players be more intimately involved in the politics or build their own stations outside the bubble and so on.

Right now, Frontier, you're trying to please everyone and it's not working.

The good news is that you can have a 'game' and a 'simulation' at the same time by replacing Solo and Open with Game (with the pvp flag some of you want) and Simulation (Player Group could have a slider for more gamey or more simulationy).

Decide, Frontier, decide

While parts of the game have simulation aspects such as the galaxy and the BGS, it is at it's roots a game, just like the original Elite was.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

If you take a look at most negative steam reviews you realise that there can't be much casual about it

Yeah, I used word 'casual' very loosely here. Being able to dock in 10 secs you forget struggle is real for newcomers.

But fails.

For me and lots of other people it doesn't.

 

[Sylveria]

Decision was made when it was released.

Some will people like it, some won't. If it's not for you, then it's not for you.

Plenty of games to choose from, this one doesn't need to "transform" for anyone.

 

[Lightspeed]

A true space simulation, with real physics, will be incredibly boring and s..... l......... o ............ w

And forget dogfights in space

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

To reply to the part of the OP which hasn't already been thoroughly gnawed upon:

The idea that if it's a game it REQUIRES A, B and C, but if it's a simulation it requires X, Y and Z is spurious. You personally might WANT those features, but not everyone does and there are no defining features that characterize either game or simulation.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I think biggest point is - ED uses simulation as one of sources to make game interesting, and realism as inspiration from which make fun gameplay elements.

It is certainly not a sim and never tried to be one. There are space simulators (not games) out there doing their own thing very well.

 

[Zebaoth]

To reply to the part of the OP which hasn't already been thoroughly gnawed upon:

The idea that if it's a game it REQUIRES A, B and C, but if it's a simulation it requires X, Y and Z is spurious. You personally might WANT those features, but not everyone does and there are no defining features that characterize either game or simulation.

There actually are definitions of the terms "game" and "simulation".
People seem to ignore those on a regular basis.

 

[Manticore]

They always said it's a game and not a simluation.
I believe what you actually want to say is they need to decide if it's an arcade game or a hardcore game. I think it's absolutely no arcade game so to me it looks like they already decided.

Agreed. And since no one knows what life, science and the galaxy will be like in 3304 it is a bit difficult for a simulation to exist at all.

It's an RPG set in space.

They did - over five years ago.

.... and everyone either bought or backed that game.

Yes. That seems to be the general history of this game.

In the opinion of some, no doubt.

"Limited understanding" would be more appropriate than "opinion".

 

[SAB380]

Question: Game or simulation

Answer: Yes

Thread done.

 

[BirdWisdom]

Right now it's in a no man's land that is forcing Frontier to make sub optimal decisions.

If it's a game put in game elements like instantly arrIving security in appropriate systems or credit transfer (and no it won't make gold farmers magically appear like scum goblins).

If it's a simulation of being a pilot in a living universe then commit to that and let players be more intimately involved in the politics or build their own stations outside the bubble and so on.

Right now, Frontier, you're trying to please everyone and it's not working.

The good news is that you can have a 'game' and a 'simulation' at the same time by replacing Solo and Open with Game (with the pvp flag some of you want) and Simulation (Player Group could have a slider for more gamey or more simulationy).

Decide, Frontier, decide

You can play this game with a mouse and keyboard so it's definitely not a simulator [big grin]

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

There actually are definitions of the terms "game" and "simulation".
People seem to ignore those on a regular basis.

It would have been really helpful if you'd referenced them in your reply.
I'm particularly interested in where they define that a game must have player credit transfers.

You can play this game with a mouse and keyboard so it's definitely not a simulator [big grin]

Are you suggesting that 'Minesweeper' is not a simulator?

 

[GunnerBill]

A true space simulation, with real physics, will be incredibly boring and s..... l......... o ............ w

And forget dogfights in space

This.

ED is in the process of getting the mix absolutely perfect. I'd say about 85% of the way there.

All good, carry on FD.

 

[Nilt]

There actually are definitions of the terms "game" and "simulation".
People seem to ignore those on a regular basis.

Yeah and nowhere does it require instant security in said definition. As others have said, if the game isn't for you then go play something else. As it is, many of us enjoy it just fine, thanks.

Edit: Here's the actual definition of "game" in case you're unable to find it on your own. Nowhere in there does it mention instantly arriving security or credit transfer.