Frontier, please give some clarity about this...

Adri

Adri
First off, I don't want this to be a rant, rather a 'letter' to Frontier to request something.
(I don't want to 'attack' the devs by any means, they do awesome work and thanks to them we have this beauty of a game :pc::blue:)

So my question (and without a doubt the question of many) is wheter you can give an answer to the matter that is coaster smoothing. YouTubers like Silv and Variable Gaming have already posted videos about this and overhere there's a thread with over 200 replies about it.

Chems has also made a long post about what exactly is wrong:
https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/15700-Coaster-Smoothness


Something like: 'No, it's not gonna happen' or 'It's gonna come eventually, but not now' would definitely help, as this is probably the most requested feature for the game right now.

Thanks in advance.
 

breezerHOG1

breezerHOG1
I've followed these topics but don't chime in much, because it seems like a minor thing. I've seen some pretty smooth coasters, and of course it could be improved. Its just, would you rather they delay adding other features for this?

Adri said:
this is probably the most requested feature for the game right now.
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its an important aspect of the game, especially for the master builders, but I wouldn't say its the biggest feature request, more like a highly requested improvement. I'd rather see terrain improvements (which to me seems like an easier addition)

If Frontier could make the smoothing tool easier, simpler, faster, better, etc., it would definitely be a great thing [up] but probably not an easy thing to do
 
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Adri

Adri
breezerHOG said:
I've follow this topic but don't chime in much, because it seems like a minor thing. I've seen some pretty smooth coasters, but of course it could be improved. Its just, would you rather they delay adding other features for this?
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For some it's more than a minor thing, for some even a gamebreaking issue. While you do have a point, I think that this would make the coaster editor more or less 'finished' so that they can start working on other things.
 

inspectorgadget1

inspectorgadget1
Creating new threads asking them to reply to other threads (in the same forum several threads down from each other) probably isn't the best way to go about this in my opinion. I'm sure they've read that other thread (given it's been running for over 6 months) and if they choose to reply that's up to them. Demanding they reply (in a nice way) as we've seen several times before doesn't really achieve anything.
 
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Chems

Chems
breezerHOG said:
I've followed these topics but don't chime in much, because it seems like a minor thing. I've seen some pretty smooth coasters, and of course it could be improved. Its just, would you rather they delay adding other features for this?

its an important aspect of the game, especially for the master builders, but I wouldn't say its the biggest feature request, more like a highly requested improvement. I'd rather see terrain improvements (which to me seems like an easier addition)

If Frontier could make the smoothing tool easier, simpler, faster, better, etc., it would definitely be a great thing [up] but probably not an easy thing to do
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Coasters are one of the most important parts of these kinds of games for many people. Coasters are very iconic and the main feature for many amusement parks, hence why the word coaster is used in RCTs and PCs names. Right now, the coaster aspect in Planet Coaster is broken. So yes, personally I would want them to fix this (it has been over a year now) before adding other features in. This goes for other things than the coaster aspect of the game as well. For instance, I would love to see them make the pathing system a bit more versatile, better tools to manipulate the terrain, 3D-GIZMO (!!), etc.

So basically improve/fix what the game currently has, instead of only adding new features. Of course I know this is not going to happen, because new features are a lot more sexy for new players/people who are looking to get the game, than improving/fixing already existing features.

Also fixing the coaster part of the game seems like a very easy thing to do. It takes just three simple steps. 1: Give us control over friction, 2: let us disable coaster restrictions, 3: continuous-roll.
 

Chems

Chems
breezerHOG said:
really? you cant build coasters at all? thats news to me
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It doesn't work right so in my book it's broken. And yes I over-exaggerate here, I know that.

But my point remains. Currently you can't make proper coasters. Heck, even Roblox has a better 'coaster builder'.
 

breezerHOG1

breezerHOG1
Chems said:
coasters are extremely unsmooth
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Like I said before, of course things could be better. But it seems like this one aspect would take a lot of work from the devs, at the expense of adding other features. I understand that some people (specifically the coaster experts) want things to be perfect and authentic and realistic, and yes coaster building is supposed to be the #1 aspect of the game. I agree that it would be nice to see these improvements, but to say it breaks the game is a little bit confusing. How about trying not to exaggerate when giving constructive feedback :)

I mean if you compare PC to RCT3 the coaster builder is definitely a big big step up. If you compare PC to a game like NoLimits2 (which only focuses on coasters, but not any of the other park stuff) then of couse NoLimits2 has smoother coasters but it doesnt do everything else PC can do. PC might not have perfectly smooth coasters, but thats because of how much else it can do. If you took away all the other rides and management features, then maybe PC could be more like NoLimits2 but is that really what you want?

Chems said:
even Roblox has a better 'coaster builder'.
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When you compare PC to something like Roblox it sounds like your not giving authentic feedback, which I know you are so theres no reason to exaggerate. Lets not forget, Frontier has proven that they are listening to us and they do try to give us what we want! (when they can)
 
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Chems

Chems
breezerHOG said:
Like I said before, of course things could be better. But it seems like this one aspect would take a lot of work from the devs, at the expense of adding other features. I understand that some people (specifically the coaster experts) want things to be perfect and authentic and realistic, and yes coaster building is supposed to be the #1 aspect of the game. I agree that it would be nice to see these improvements, but to say it breaks the game is a little bit confusing. How about trying not to exaggerate when giving constructive feedback :)
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There is a big thread about this very topic with over 200 responses, probably half of those are from me, which has all the feedback you need. Everything there is to say about this issue has been said in that thread. So gimme a break and let me exaggerate for a bit now. [tongue][tongue]

I didn't mean to say this issue breaks the whole game. Of course, the game has many more to offer than just coasters. But I do see coasters as one of the 'main' features of the game. And with the way how it is currently implemented (or rather lacking certain essential options), it just leaves a very bad taste in my (and probably any coaster lover's) mouth. I still play the game every day, I just don't build coasters anymore, since what's the point if you cannot get them properly done.

I mean if you compare PC to RCT3 the coaster builder is definitely a big big step up. If you compare PC to a game like NoLimits2 (which only focuses on coasters, but not any of the other park stuff) then of couse NoLimits2 has smoother coasters but it doesnt do everything else PC can do. PC might not have perfectly smooth coasters, but thats because of how much else it can do. If you took away all the other rides and management features, then maybe PC could be more like NoLimits2 but is that really what you want? When you compare PC to something like Roblox it makes it sounds like your not giving authentic feedback, which I know you are so no reason to exaggerate.
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I don't think anyone is asking for NoLimits level of options for Planet Coaster (although I wouldnt mind having these options [haha]!). But Planet Coaster does use a spline-based system, which for PCs implementation requires certain tools to get it to shape the way we want. The most important tool that is missing is the continuous-roll option. The procedure of making multiple curves continuous is rather simple, and implementing it for Planet Coaster shouldn't be too difficult. Or maybe it does require an complete redesign of their spline system, but that would mean they have a very bad implementation and that seems very unlikely to me. But then again, this issue has been in the game since the very first alpha release so..... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

About Roblox.. Yeah I over exaggerated, but Roblox does offer us the ability to make smoother coasters (still not great but better than PC).
 

breezerHOG1

breezerHOG1
Did you read the first sentence of my OP?

breezerHOG said:
I've followed these topics but don't chime in much, because it seems like a minor thing. I've seen some pretty smooth coasters
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That is just my opinion, I understand you don't agree with me, and thats fine :)

Chems said:
with over 200 responses, probably half of those are from me
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You can believe me when I say I have read the majority of the threads discussing the smoothness of coasters, and not just the one you created ;) but there are also many people who do not post on the forums who still enjoy the game just fine. Not everybody is a master builder, and for a casual like myself I would rather see other improvements like for terrain (just my opinion)

The point here is, everybody is aware of the issue with coaster smoothness, and saying things like "we really need a response here" does not help. If you force the devs to say one way or another, that could be bad. If the devs say they cant do it people will be disappointed, if the devs say they can do it but it might delay other features that could disappoint other players.

When everybody complained about the biome limitations, the devs said they were looking into it and they did it. We all know the devs are working on things, but this one minor flaw certainly doesnt prevent people form enjoying the game unless your an OCD perfectionist. I can even be OCD myself sometimes, but this is a game about creativity so a few flaws are not a big deal when an overall design is awesome

Chems said:
I just don't build coasters anymore, since what's the point if you cannot get them properly done.
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When I watch coaster videos, I dont judge tiny bumps in a ride as bad, I judge a very bumpy jerky or even deadly coaster as bad, but those are 2 different things. I more judge rides on the scenery and how well the coaster drives through the terrain/scenery. I don't enjoy realistic recreations half as much as I enjoy the fantasy stuff... its a video game. That is not to say recreations are bad, and can be awesome to see. But again, a tiny bump here and there doesnt ruin somebodys overall design
 
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seeker939

seeker939
I don't see how more communication could ever be a bad thing.

And another thing I don't get is why anyone would still want more features implemented when there's much left to do to make the existing features work properly. What good will more half-baked tools do? If it's one or the other, please fix what's there first!
 
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Chems

Chems
Well I am an extreme perfectionist (that's why I really never post any of my work..) so every little un-natural bump in coaster tracks is extremely noticeable for me. :S Thats just me and the severity of this issue is of course subjective. But still that doesn't take away the fact that one of the 'main' aspects of the game is so incredibly flawed. Not being able to make smooth coasters in Planet Coaster is like not being able to steer cars in GTA 5.

And I agree the overall design of the game is awesome. That's why I still play this game every day. But I just wish Frontier would spend more time to fine tune the different system that make up this overall design. After all, those systems are the things people will actually interact with when playing the game. And because this game is a creative game, I don't like that the current gameplay systems can be incredibly restrictive.

The pathing system is powerful, but at the same time very limited in what it can do. We have to resort to a glitch to get better looking paths in the game. Path-terrain interaction is almost non-existent. Coasters have wrong friction, restrict track shapes, lack control over finer details such as smoothing. Even the building system, maybe the most powerful system in the game, still has the glitchy 3D-gizmo. The 3D-gizmo is probably the most used tool in the game, so you better want it to actually work correctly, right?

Also I realize all of this is completely off topic. Anyway, I just wanted to share my problems with the game. I don't only care about coasters. However, I did want coasters to be the main drive for me to play the game, since it's the thing I love most about themeparks. Alas, with the lack of creative freedom the tools offers I just can't like the coaster aspect of this game.

Fortunately more and more people start to complain about this issue. Maybe this will give Frontier enough reason to fix it.
 

breezerHOG1

breezerHOG1
Chems said:
Not being able to make smooth coasters in Planet Coaster is like not being able to steer cars in GTA 5.
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This is the difference between constructive criticism, and just complaining... bumpy coasters does not mean the game is broken ...because not being able to drive at all is not the same thing as a bumpy coaster, a bumpy coaster is more like bad steering and GTA does not have the greatest driving mechanics I have ever played, so bad example.

Theres a lot of people who stopped playing PC due to a lack of management. If Frontier were to choose to focus more on management, they could bring back a lot of players who have stopped playing the game. But Frontier has chosen to focus more on the creative aspect of the game, and its a shame that the creative players who do remain playing can't be happy with what they have, instead of acting like the game is going to fail if this one minor detail is not fixed

If frontier ignores coaster smoothness, the game will still continue to grow and people will still continue making new coasters. My point is, your arguement that coaster smoothness is important would sound better if you didnt go all "dey broke da game grrr" stop writing paragraphs comparing how coasters are like steering, because that doesnt help you make your point

Chems said:
I just wish Frontier would spend more time to fine tune the different system that make up this overall design.
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I agree but again, the coasters do work, we are capable of creating some cool stuff, and to say its broke is just wrong


Chems said:
The pathing system is powerful, but at the same time very limited in what it can do. We have to resort to a glitch to get better looking paths in the game. Path-terrain interaction is almost non-existent.
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Yes I agree there are many things to fix, as I mentioned before I think terrain is very important (in my opinion) one of the things that stops me from playing the game is how slow terrain moves and how long it takes to build a large mountain, let alone a detailed sculpture... but Im not saying the terrain is broken, it just needs improvements


seeker939 said:
I don't get is why anyone would still want more features implemented when there's much left to do to make the existing features work properly. What good will more half-baked tools do? If it's one or the other, please fix what's there first!
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my point is, how much work would it require from the devs to fix this flaw? to me, a bigger issue to deal with is making terrain & paths much smoother and easier to work with (thats just my individual opinion, obviously)
 
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Chems

Chems
Well obviously the severity this issue is subjective. Currently it is impossible to make smooth coasters, thus me comparing it to be impossible to steer cars in GTA 5. With smoothing coasters, there is no middle ground. It is either smooth, or not smooth.

Anyway, I don't say that these issues break the whole game, or make the whole game fail. Obviously that's not the case. If I would view the game like that I wouldn't play it every day. I think the fact that we complain about these rather minor issues is a good thing.:kingcoaster:
 

DocSonix

DocSonix
How are you using the smoothing tools?

Is anyone using the smoothing all/bank tools? If so, how? I've been using them both and while it isn't always 100% perfect, I've made some really mean-ass woodies that are fast, wild, but smooth. I usually will go through the entire coaster, from one 'vertex' on the track to the next, clicking on the 'smooth bank' and 'smooth all' buttons a bunch of times, watching the adjustments as they are made, then re-adjusting. It's not the quickest thing, but doesn't take that long to smooth things out. I'll post some videos as I can, as well as the links to my coasters in Steam (I need to share them there first). Very curious about how others are using these tools though...
 

breezerHOG1

breezerHOG1
Luuknoord said:
Nice coasters, but they ain't smooth.
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If you read my posts, I said I understand that they are not perfectly smooth, and I agree that things could be improved, but that Chems and others over exaggerate a little bit, and coasters are clearly not broken... I guess you missed all that :(


Here guys maybe this would help, again I know its not perfect and things could be better, but none the less:
[video=youtube;jLjP1o8GAcc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLjP1o8GAcc[/video]
 
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