Frontier, please hire the team that made Ascent on Steam

[darshie76]

You're assuming I'm confused and need doubts cleared. In this genre, Elite was the innovator. This is the genre-defining game, which makes it unique and original. You can spin it however you like, and you could make the same argument that you made about trade for Frogger. Frogger used keyboard controls, and so does Elite, therefore Elite innovated on Frogger. Pretty dumb, huh. Trade is not the only thing Elite is about, it contains many aspects that make it a unique package that OTHER games, such as EVE Online, have innovated from. EVE also became a unique game by virtue of introducing unique elements that only EVE has. If you were to now go and take elements from other games and emulate them in EVE, it would seem mundane and arbitrary, and make the game more homogeneous, something that would weaken it, not strengthen it. The same applies here. Again, I'll lay out the bottom line. This game is the innovation that everyone else innovates from.

From the way in which you talk, I think that I have assumed correctly.

You are part of the cult, I get it; have fun. Let's wait that the innovator will be able to make something better than what a person did, "copying" it.

Just as side note, Frogger did not use a keyboard because was an arcade. This should be the bottom line, which says it all.

 

[Yaffle]

Hello all

Please can we stay on topic rather than debating semantics?

Also, moving to off-topic general gaming as that's really what this is about now.

 

[LetoAtreides2]

When I saw the title, I thought it would be a Descent fan-game. Was kind of disappointed.

Regardless, the player-owned stuff and crafting seems like a major improvement over what you can do in Elite. As for the flight model - it seems pretty meh (at least from the videos, but it does claim a Newtonian model), and I'm not even sure if Ascent has a first-person cockpit mode (one screenshot seemed to indicate this).

I've been playing some other games instead of Elite, and am always looking to new ones - this might be on my radar.

 

[cpbtrading]

I don't think you understand. Elite isn't emulating anything - anything that is like Elite is emulating Elite. Elite was the first, and it always will be. Just because ED is new doesn't mean it's not part of a lineage that other developers are taking pages from. Innovation is irrelevant, because Elite is its own entity. It is the innovation that everyone else is innovating from.

Star Trader. Early 70's, was the first space trading game. Elite was, in 84, an advanced more fleshed out idea, probably taken from that game. Today, ED is no longer advanced.

Elite no longer innovates, it uses old ideas that it simply goes with. These 'copy' games, which aren't copies of Elite but of the genre of trading in space, which could, in essence, date back to Star Trader, tend to be better in many ways than ED.
.

I played Evochron Merc a few years ago, still have it. Its a fine game, if a little dated. It has many things ED hasn't got, in-fact lots of things.

I may have a look at Ascent, not really looked into it.

 

[Senex VII]

For 20 bucks, Ascent seems or seemed an interesting and not-too-committing investment. Putting aside the retro graphics and icky controls, it certainly has a few features I'd like to have fun with, and which I don't see coming to Elite in the near future.

BUT...

I was on the point of getting it, when I noticed the line: "Bundled 3 Month Premium Access" with a mouseover of "This DLC enables 3 months of full Premium access in the game." A bit of research and I find that there are 3 separate optional monthly subscriptions of $1 each that unlock various aspects of the game (after of course you've had your free 3 month taster). My guess is that most people would want at least one of those options, possibly all three. While not EVE-like, and not essential, this took me by surprise. But caveat emptor!

If anyone wants to find out more about the pay-to-play side of Ascent, please look here: http://wiki.thespacegame.com/mediawiki/index.php/Premium_Access

 

[Senex VII]

Frontier, please hire the team that made Ascent on Steam

Come to think of it, I think a better bet would be to hire Vladimir Romanyuk, the guy who has been singlehandedly writing the amazing Space Engine. He could do the planetary landings, and intergalactic travel, and ...

[video=youtube;uRJgYOgf8xc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRJgYOgf8xc[/video]

 

[Vreynn]

One of the best parts about Space Engine is the seamless travel, something I really wish Elite had.

I wish Frontier would use their existing galaxy map assets to create a super-FSD to allow us to travel between stars the same way we travel between planets in our current FSD mode. Select a star on the target panel (or in the windscreen) and get within a certain range and speed to drop out at it, again similar to the way we drop out at specific targets in FSD. If our Asps have a range of 1,000 lightyears, we could then just fly that 1,000 lightyears, passing through starfields, and dropping out of super-FSD to top up on fuel (and load the system instance). Within the system, regular FSD travel applies. The time to travel places wouldn't even be shorter than it currently is, it's just the super FSD would resolve the tedium of jumping and scooping thousands and thousands of times.

This is probably a dumb idea on my part. Then again, after half a year and traveling to the core in Elite several times, I'm well past done with the sheer tedium of jumping, dodging and scooping stars thousands of times to get anywhere. I don't mind the time it takes to get places, but the repetition of jumps has worn me down.

So I actually tried this idea in Space Engine, roleplaying piloting an Asp with this conceptual super-FSD with the same existing speed and range limits, and the experience was just way more enjoyable for me. That probably sounds super dorky, but again, I'm just so worn down on the endless jumping in Elite.

 

[cpbtrading]

Come to think of it, I think a better bet would be to hire Vladimir Romanyuk, the guy who has been singlehandedly writing the amazing Space Engine. He could do the planetary landings, and intergalactic travel, and ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRJgYOgf8xc

I thought this guy was the one that started to work on the Cosmos engine mod for Arma 3. But apparently its not, although.. I'm still not convinced, that it isn't him.

 

[darshie76]

When I saw the title, I thought it would be a Descent fan-game. Was kind of disappointed.

Regardless, the player-owned stuff and crafting seems like a major improvement over what you can do in Elite. As for the flight model - it seems pretty meh (at least from the videos, but it does claim a Newtonian model), and I'm not even sure if Ascent has a first-person cockpit mode (one screenshot seemed to indicate this).

I've been playing some other games instead of Elite, and am always looking to new ones - this might be on my radar.

Consider that it is made by a person; I suppose it uses Unity engine and many assets found on the Unity store. Yet again, the point was not to bash ED but to ask the simple question: why a single person can do something interesting, while 100-200 can't even make something ordinary? Many answer may fit the question, obviously....I don't cheer for Ascent to become better than ED (if it happens, so be it, but let's be realistic...1 person can only do so much...look at Evochron); I wish that people at Frontier would actually realize that what was extraordinary 30 years ago, today can be accomplished with a decent amount of patience and cash, so the expectations on them are far higher.

I dislike the idea to pay a monthly fee, but other than that, I believe that the product, considering everything already said; it is quite an accomplishment to be proud of. The guy deserve a seat in a top 5 game company.

 

[darshie76]

Star Trader. Early 70's, was the first space trading game. Elite was, in 84, an advanced more fleshed out idea, probably taken from that game. Today, ED is no longer advanced.

Elite no longer innovates, it uses old ideas that it simply goes with. These 'copy' games, which aren't copies of Elite but of the genre of trading in space, which could, in essence, date back to Star Trader, tend to be better in many ways than ED.
.

I played Evochron Merc a few years ago, still have it. Its a fine game, if a little dated. It has many things ED hasn't got, in-fact lots of things.

I may have a look at Ascent, not really looked into it.

I feel like you have got a point. With games, like with everything, people has to be as detached as possible...you judge something for what it is, not for the feel-good from the past.
Elite as I mentioned elsewhere, was a "right time, right person, right genre" combination; kinda like GTA, Starcraft, WOW and many other games, considered the best example of a specific genre. If people still talk today about X wing vs TIE, then there is something beyond the game itself (star wars franchise), but there are many other games that got attention just for what they introduced. Elite was a great example of iterative innovation, given by the great programming skills of Mr Braben, but far from being considered an innovation IMO. A lightbulb is innovation, the wheel is an innovation.

- - - Updated - - -

For 20 bucks, Ascent seems or seemed an interesting and not-too-committing investment. Putting aside the retro graphics and icky controls, it certainly has a few features I'd like to have fun with, and which I don't see coming to Elite in the near future.

BUT...

I was on the point of getting it, when I noticed the line: "Bundled 3 Month Premium Access" with a mouseover of "This DLC enables 3 months of full Premium access in the game." A bit of research and I find that there are 3 separate optional monthly subscriptions of $1 each that unlock various aspects of the game (after of course you've had your free 3 month taster). My guess is that most people would want at least one of those options, possibly all three. While not EVE-like, and not essential, this took me by surprise. But caveat emptor!

If anyone wants to find out more about the pay-to-play side of Ascent, please look here: http://wiki.thespacegame.com/mediawiki/index.php/Premium_Access

Yes, that is what turned me off too, but it is described clearly, and they are extras, you can play the game even without the fee, from what I understand.

BTW the video is impressive, never heard of it and thanks for posting it.

 

[darshie76]

One of the best parts about Space Engine is the seamless travel, something I really wish Elite had.

I wish Frontier would use their existing galaxy map assets to create a super-FSD to allow us to travel between stars the same way we travel between planets in our current FSD mode. Select a star on the target panel (or in the windscreen) and get within a certain range and speed to drop out at it, again similar to the way we drop out at specific targets in FSD. If our Asps have a range of 1,000 lightyears, we could then just fly that 1,000 lightyears, passing through starfields, and dropping out of super-FSD to top up on fuel (and load the system instance). Within the system, regular FSD travel applies. The time to travel places wouldn't even be shorter than it currently is, it's just the super FSD would resolve the tedium of jumping and scooping thousands and thousands of times.

This is probably a dumb idea on my part. Then again, after half a year and traveling to the core in Elite several times, I'm well past done with the sheer tedium of jumping, dodging and scooping stars thousands of times to get anywhere. I don't mind the time it takes to get places, but the repetition of jumps has worn me down.

So I actually tried this idea in Space Engine, roleplaying piloting an Asp with this conceptual super-FSD with the same existing speed and range limits, and the experience was just way more enjoyable for me. That probably sounds super dorky, but again, I'm just so worn down on the endless jumping in Elite.

When I heard about the big titles on the websites, that Elite would not be a remake but an updated game to fit our current computation power, I thought mostly the same: infinite universe where you don't jump but use FSD to speed up and cross a system. Then I remember that before being a dreamer, I am a programmer and there are limits to what can be done. If you give in on something, you have to pay it in terms of performance or game features...a machine can only run so much, before slowing down, and not everyone is a rich guy that can afford a SLI Titan system, that cost as much as a good used car.

I love how ED did the travel; you basically jump from point A to B, and land always on the proximity of a star; but what I don't like is that you can't travel without jump, because these are all instances, you don't actually move in space, beyond the actual instance, so there is nowhere to go until you run out of fuel (I tried). Which is still fine; I am not going to spend 4 hours to travel through a system, but it would be nice to know that you can do it.

Not dorky at all; you are actually playing this game, as the designers meant to....you have to roleplay everything in your head, while the engine show you the nice graphic for the planets and stations. It is as close as it gets, to the old school RPG with pen and paper, because the miniatures and the diorama where something for few rich people.

 

[Captain N]

ask the simple question: why a single person can do something interesting, while 100-200 can't even make something ordinary?

I can give you a simple answer: FD is a developer that is trying to adhere to a certain standard of quality. And I believe this is why most of us are still here... there aren't a lot of space games with this level of production values kicking around.

Sure one guy can make a game that is seemingly big if they don't care too much about whether things have a production quality or polish fitting a triple-A game and are just racing through a checklist of features to implement.

This game does seem neat though, for a one man show it's genuinely impressive. I likely won't be playing it though. Largely for the same reason I don't really play other indy sandboxes like Evochron or Oolite - there are too many big production AAA open world type games there for me to get much excited about a game that looks it came from early 2000's and has the word "space" in it. At least the game should take the word "space" seriously enough to model it accurately - something that I can't find in GTA or Skyrim but I can find in Orbiter or Rogue System.

Good for you if you enjoy those games though.