Frontier - please stop work on any new expansions and focus on your core gameplay.

I can't help but feel incredibly disappointed by the latest updates to the game. I feel we are just seeing Frontier tack on new and shiny features, that ultimately end up just being new reasons to repeat old gameplay. I can no longer muster up any enthusiasm for this, and every time I start up the Elite launcher, and hover over the Play button I ask myself, why should I bother...

Personally I don't think any new expansions will be very well received because they all rely on the basic mechanics, which are woefully under-developed and were widely believed to be placeholders at launch. You can't build a house on an unstable foundation and expect it to stand for long. Therefore I really hope the Devs can take a step back, look at what they have created, and put some proper meat on its bones instead of just adding new limbs. The future of Elite relies on it, and the success of every single expansion relies on it.

Concrete examples of basic mechanics that need serious improvement, and a few off the top of my head suggestions.

  • NPC Spawns - Ensure that NPC's spawn based solely on current location, including system states, system security levels, ties to major factions, ties to power play factions. Make us care about where we fly, give the galaxy some personality in the form of dangerous places and safe places. Give the NPC AI a wide range of skill meaning that the safe places are really safe, and the dangerous ones are really dangerous. If you go to a low security system in a war state you should not expect to encounter the same ships as you would in a high security boom state system...
  • Trading - Add better trading tools, make the markets more dynamic, add market place data like you would see in a real world stock market. Make it local to your area or more wide spread, add in delays for data to be sent between stations via ships. Increase the impact of your trading on the local markets, proportional to the population.
  • Bounty Hunting - Give us tools to hunt down high bounty targets. More information available, sightings by law enforcement relayed through bounty hunting networks. Make it a proper chase, for both player and NPC bounties alike. Don't make it an RNG spawn for NPC's, give them a persistent location! Keeping track of 10-50 high profile targets on a server should not be a problem.
  • Pirating - Give incentives to traders to fly in low security areas. Elite missions sending you to dangerous places. Better trade gains. Give pirates better communication methods that don't rely on creating scripts outside of the game. Create illegal trading networks, pirate reputation scales, pirate bases.
  • Combat - Create a better crime and punishment system to encourage players to actually face each other. Ensure that NPC's and players fight in similar ways to avoid the huge difference between a PvE and a PvP configured ship. Ensure that NPC skill levels are high in dangerous areas, and that rewards for killing them are equally high. Give people an incentive to learn to fight if they want to.
  • Smuggling - Give us better stealth tools. Make silent running, chaff, low power running/gliding, or even just sticking to Anarchy systems a viable tactic when carrying illegal goods. Make us spend time plotting our routes to avoid high security systems. Make us fear the police, but give us intelligent and challenging ways to steer clear of them. Give us a reason to fly low over the surface of planets, dropping off cargo at smugglers bases or space stations while avoiding scans.
  • Mining - give it more meaning than just gathering cash. Have certain markets demand certain metals for different purposes. Allow the player to build up stock piles of these at his home base to combine with trading runs once he spots a need for his gathered resources. Make the occurance of different metals less random, and more closely linked to certain locations in the metallic rings, or even on planet surfaces, in certain craters. Less random, more skill based!
  • Exploration - Never really done it, so I don't have any good ideas for improvement, but I'm sure there are many here on the forums that do!

The problem with all of the above is that it would not be possible to sell as a new expansion, it is just stuff that honestly should have been in the game for a long time. I am sure there are significantly better suggestions than mine that can be used, but not doing anything at all is just not an option in my opinion.

With every single new release relying on these basic mechanisms, they will only ever get a luke-warm reception. Passenger missions? Just another trade mission to a destination further away. Engineers? Just another reason to do what you are already doing. Power Play? Just another reason to do what you are already doing. Landing on lava planets? Landing on atmospheric planets? What is the difference if the basic mechanisms we perform are still too simplistic.

Giving people new reasons to repeat old stuff is not going to work for much longer! Instead, make the basic game so compelling to play, so deep and full of meaningful choices and mechanics, that your player base will revel in any opportunity to repeat those same mechanics for another goal! It honestly feels like the devs have lost their way, and lost the original vision for Elite... and that makes me sad, as I truly had great faith in this game back in the Beta days :(

Regards
CMDR Viking84 - Signing off, waiting for better days
 
Doubt it's going to happen, But I can easily get behind all this. Every point is in dire need of concentrated attention to make the game more immersive. (Including exploration and the lore/mysteries)

I would be much happier to have all this done instead of multiplayer ships, ships in ships, atmospheric landing, first person on footl walking around ships etc. I would love all this too, but I think it's well overdue to improve all these core game mechanics first.
 
I feel like I have to be inspired to play elite nowadays.
Been like that when I left the game 6 months ago. Now that I come back with a few addons, sometimes I wonder if there's better ways to invest my time.
 
I can't help but feel incredibly disappointed by the latest updates to the game. I feel we are just seeing Frontier tack on new and shiny features, that ultimately end up just being new reasons to repeat old gameplay. I can no longer muster up any enthusiasm for this, and every time I start up the Elite launcher, and hover over the Play button I ask myself, why should I bother...

Personally I don't think any new expansions will be very well received because they all rely on the basic mechanics, which are woefully under-developed and were widely believed to be placeholders at launch. You can't build a house on an unstable foundation and expect it to stand for long. Therefore I really hope the Devs can take a step back, look at what they have created, and put some proper meat on its bones instead of just adding new limbs. The future of Elite relies on it, and the success of every single expansion relies on it.

Concrete examples of basic mechanics that need serious improvement, and a few off the top of my head suggestions.

  • NPC Spawns - Ensure that NPC's spawn based solely on current location, including system states, system security levels, ties to major factions, ties to power play factions. Make us care about where we fly, give the galaxy some personality in the form of dangerous places and safe places. Give the NPC AI a wide range of skill meaning that the safe places are really safe, and the dangerous ones are really dangerous. If you go to a low security system in a war state you should not expect to encounter the same ships as you would in a high security boom state system...
  • Trading - Add better trading tools, make the markets more dynamic, add market place data like you would see in a real world stock market. Make it local to your area or more wide spread, add in delays for data to be sent between stations via ships. Increase the impact of your trading on the local markets, proportional to the population.
  • Bounty Hunting - Give us tools to hunt down high bounty targets. More information available, sightings by law enforcement relayed through bounty hunting networks. Make it a proper chase, for both player and NPC bounties alike. Don't make it an RNG spawn for NPC's, give them a persistent location! Keeping track of 10-50 high profile targets on a server should not be a problem.
  • Pirating - Give incentives to traders to fly in low security areas. Elite missions sending you to dangerous places. Better trade gains. Give pirates better communication methods that don't rely on creating scripts outside of the game. Create illegal trading networks, pirate reputation scales, pirate bases.
  • Combat - Create a better crime and punishment system to encourage players to actually face each other. Ensure that NPC's and players fight in similar ways to avoid the huge difference between a PvE and a PvP configured ship. Ensure that NPC skill levels are high in dangerous areas, and that rewards for killing them are equally high. Give people an incentive to learn to fight if they want to.
  • Smuggling - Give us better stealth tools. Make silent running, chaff, low power running/gliding, or even just sticking to Anarchy systems a viable tactic when carrying illegal goods. Make us spend time plotting our routes to avoid high security systems. Make us fear the police, but give us intelligent and challenging ways to steer clear of them. Give us a reason to fly low over the surface of planets, dropping off cargo at smugglers bases or space stations while avoiding scans.
  • Mining - give it more meaning than just gathering cash. Have certain markets demand certain metals for different purposes. Allow the player to build up stock piles of these at his home base to combine with trading runs once he spots a need for his gathered resources. Make the occurance of different metals less random, and more closely linked to certain locations in the metallic rings, or even on planet surfaces, in certain craters. Less random, more skill based!
  • Exploration - Never really done it, so I don't have any good ideas for improvement, but I'm sure there are many here on the forums that do!

The problem with all of the above is that it would not be possible to sell as a new expansion, it is just stuff that honestly should have been in the game for a long time. I am sure there are significantly better suggestions than mine that can be used, but not doing anything at all is just not an option in my opinion.

With every single new release relying on these basic mechanisms, they will only ever get a luke-warm reception. Passenger missions? Just another trade mission to a destination further away. Engineers? Just another reason to do what you are already doing. Power Play? Just another reason to do what you are already doing. Landing on lava planets? Landing on atmospheric planets? What is the difference if the basic mechanisms we perform are still too simplistic.

Giving people new reasons to repeat old stuff is not going to work for much longer! Instead, make the basic game so compelling to play, so deep and full of meaningful choices and mechanics, that your player base will revel in any opportunity to repeat those same mechanics for another goal! It honestly feels like the devs have lost their way, and lost the original vision for Elite... and that makes me sad, as I truly had great faith in this game back in the Beta days :(

Regards
CMDR Viking84 - Signing off, waiting for better days
.
I support this message
 
Could not agree more. With all the bugs and lack of core development, new features are like building a house on quicksand. You need to solidify the foundation before you worry about expansion
 
I'd rather they keep doing what they are doing. Working on expansions, working on the core game, and adding QoL stuff. Sure, it doesn't get as much done in any single area, but at least provides something for everyone at a steady pace.

Besides, they have to continue to deliver what they have promised for Horizons, and if they slow down too much on that, then Season 3 will be delayed, and they need to keep the funding coming in. So, for the long term good of the game, its probably best if they don't stop working on new content. Otherwise there will be no monies for fixing the core game either.
 
This isn't possible. That's like telling Subaru to stop producing new models until they fix the head gasket problem on the late 90s engine blocks. Fortunately, unlike Subaru, FD can still touch every "engine block" and they will, it will continue to get better but they can't stop developing new content. I agree that all the things you say need work, need work, but it has to be on the side, new features have to come into the game.
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It needs to happen, but you can't cut off the blood supply to the whole body to fix the airway, you have to have both to keep it alive.
 
Give the galaxy some personality in the form of dangerous places and safe places

I feel like that's happened with 1.6. In my home system I get immediate strong police response when I'm in trouble, when I go to an anarchy system no one ever helps me, good enough for me.

Give us tools to hunt down high bounty targets.

To me this is what the new assassination missions do. They're actually quite fun, one even unexpectedly required me to infiltrate a surface settlement to get the final location of the perp...

Have certain markets demand certain metals for different purposes.

Already happens on a weekly basis with community goals. Can't expect it to happen on a procedural basis though, way too specific.

To me 1.6 is a giant leap forward. I would have loved to have the strong NPC bite of the first beta but I accept that my 60 yo mate is not able to cope with that, still combat in 1.6 is awesome. The only I don't like are the annoying bugs and they are constantly working on them, it just seems they have made some design mistakes that make it hard to fix existing problems without creating new ones.

They should take a release off for some serious refactoring if they can afford it, otherwise the game is fine for me.
 
Dear 'FD',

Please ignore any and advice from self-declared development experts like the above and do whatever the heck you like. Since you're the developers, not us and despite what we may say we actually have no idea about the process as evinced by posts like these.

Many thanks.


Follow this advice FD and the game will die. the negative feedback over alot of things added in the last 18 months should tell you that
 
Dear 'FD',

Please ignore any and advice from self-declared development experts like the above and do whatever the heck you like. Since you're the developers, not us and despite what we may say we actually have no idea about the process as evinced by posts like these.

Many thanks.

Yea. That's been working out real well ain't it. All core features are working just fine with no issues right? While new stuff oozes out just a bug riddled as the previous with no fixes in sight.
Good plan!
 
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As much as I'd love all their resources to be focused on the core of the game for a few months (read a full year), that's not something they can market and sell easily (it would be admitting the core of the game is rather shallow and full of holes), so if we're honest it's not gonna happen. The only option is to hope they can dedicate enough resources while working on new paid content to fix the existing mess.
 
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I'd rather they keep doing what they are doing. Working on expansions, working on the core game, and adding QoL stuff. Sure, it doesn't get as much done in any single area, but at least provides something for everyone at a steady pace.

Besides, they have to continue to deliver what they have promised for Horizons, and if they slow down too much on that, then Season 3 will be delayed, and they need to keep the funding coming in. So, for the long term good of the game, its probably best if they don't stop working on new content. Otherwise there will be no monies for fixing the core game either.

Fdev need to take a long hard look at what they have built so far and go back to basics. They talk about multicrew ships like this is something people are clamouring for. Right now they have an extraordinarily fractured playing community with no common ground. Elite careers (pirate, BH, trader), Powerplay, engineers, CQC, background sim, and community goals are all playing like different games on the same galaxy sim. I could add that this forum is like a 7th game where people try and persuade Fdev to add features that no one playing the game actually wants. There is no coherence, just 4 or 5 different groups all dissatisfied with different things. Do you guys have a product manager? Anyone that is responsible for the whole vision? I would be surprised if you do because this game keeps careening in different directions with a kind of strange desperation, all while running probably the greatest and most spectacular galaxy simulator ever created. Build a core game that runs on that astounding foundation and stop the bells and whistles.
 
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This isn't possible. That's like telling Subaru to stop producing new models until they fix the head gasket problem on the late 90s engine blocks.

Not sure I agree with that analogy - this is more like if Mercedes kept face lifting the W210 E-Class model every year, hoping a shiny new exterior would keep people buying it. But everyone knows that car was a rusty pile of junk, and so did Mercedes, so they redesigned the whole thing and regained their reputation for reliability that was almost lost.

This is what Frontier need to do. The base game sold on equal parts hope and actual gameplay. We all saw the insane potential of this galaxy they had created, and loved much of the graphics and sound design that had gone into it. We could overlook the gameplay being a bit on the simple side because "this is only Beta/Gamma/1.0". Sadly the gameplay hasn't actually changed much since then. And flashy new additions to this doesn't help, it just brings more and more focus to the core gameplay being rather simplistic. This would be fine if Elite was a story driven 60 hour campaign, but it isn't. We are meant to spend years playing this game, and to do that we need to find intrinsic value in the game play mechanisms themselves.
 
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