Frontier: Please work on the game AI

How to beat elite AI

any small ship,
Engine 2 or more pips
Throttle set to middle of blue
Pull up
when enemy ship flies out of sight, keep pulling up.
rinse repeat until dead.

big ships ( Python, Clipper, Dropship, )

get to to a range of 500
target power core
1 pip engine
1 system
4 weapons
throttle to blue

shoot.
if enemy closes, slow down
if enemy moves away speed up
keep under 500 distance


this is how easy this game is
Vultures offer the only interesting AI due to the big shields and speed but balling up still works 99% of the time.
500 distance is the ultimate because due to the enemies AI crash pathing, most just waddle from side to side or slowly pull up then level off.....

the only difference in enemy ranking is the amount of shields they have, they all fight and die the same.
if you have not worked out how easy this game is to beat, you have now, it's a joke.

So you are complaining that the AI is too easy but you are abusing it in the first place... How about you don't abuse it? Why do you need to get in the 500 range distance if you know that it will make it easy for you?

If you want a tough fight and if you know that abusing the AI this way will make it easy... then don't do it. How about this?
 
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So you are complaining that the AI is too easy but you are abusing it in the first place... How about you don't abuse it? Why do you need to get in the 500 range distance if you know that it will make it easy for you?

If you want a tough fight and if you know that abusing the AI this way will make it easy... then don't do it. How about this?

How about they make the AI actually better, how does that work for you?
 
How about they make the AI actually better, how does that work for you?

The AI is fine, just don't abuse it, how about being honest?

It's a game, there will always be a way to trick the AI and make things easier. Always. But if you do abuse the AI don't complain that it is too easy, period.

It's like people raiding in a MMO, abusing a boss mechanic to make the fight trivial and then complaining that it is too easy... it just doesn't make sense to complain about the difficulty of a fight if you use means to abuse the AI in the first place.
 
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The AI is fine, just don't abuse it, how about being honest?

It's a game, there will always be a way to trick the AI and make things easier. Always. But if you do abuse the AI don't complain that it is too easy, period.

Better, not tougher. There is an important distinction. There is still a lot of work left on AI - important work at that - for it to be considered worthy for the game.
 
If you want a challenge, here's an idea: strip the A grade equipment from your ship and roll with C grade or worse. No need to thank me.

This is an utterly facile argument. Hobbling yourself does not change the fact that the AI is weak. Hobbling yourself does not make the AI pilots any better, they will still struggle to evade fire and be limited to simplistic tactics and fail at pip management and countermeasure use. You could try playing with your eyes shut for a challenge. It would not mean the AI was better, it would mean you are an idiot and ignoring the real issue.

Playing well is not 'abusing' the AI, how you even come to that conclusion is beyond me. You are right about one thing; there is no need to thank you.
 
Thinking more on this i am left wondering.....
Yes SJA was a good AI programmer, but Frontier must have others capable too, so one of the rumoured messages was "this update won't happen now", why?.
The updates already worked on are still owned by Frontier, so why can't they be implemented still.
They are still needed, as is lots more AI work, so i can't see Frontier just not doing anything more with the AI, yes maybe a bit delayed, but i think they will still come, even by another hand.
I just hope they do not let all the work already done be left to rot away like in the DDA.
 
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Thinking more on this i am left wondering.....
Yes SJA was a good AI programmer, but Frontier must have others capable too, so one of the rumoured messages was "this update won't happen now", why?.
The updates already worked on are still owned by Frontier, so why can't they be implemented still.
They are still needed, as is lots more AI work, so i can't see Frontier just not doing anything more with the AI, yes maybe a bit delayed, but i think they will still come, even by another hand.
I just hope they do not let all the work already done be left to rot away like in the DDA.

I honestly think there is credibility to the view that they are worried that making the game too difficult will scare away the casual market. Look at how they have trivialised almost all penalties; hull repairs, wear and tear, fuel costs, insurance... all have been removed as aspects which slow player 'progress', or heavily mitigated in the case of insurance loans.

Ramping up AI difficulty, even with a lowered low end (as SJA proposed), could potentially alienate bad players. Suddenly they don't feel like the uber awesome skilled space commander in their A grade whatever... they're getting their backsides kicked by npc, dying in RES and CZ, failing assassination missions, missing PP grind goals. The crying on the forum would have been intense. At management level FD are not concerned with producing a fun, challenging or interesting game. Their primary concern is customer retention and sales of future expansions. Perhaps whoever calls the financial shots has decreed that the game should remain a nice easy grind, because that's what the marketing people say will sell.
 
I honestly think there is credibility to the view that they are worried that making the game too difficult will scare away the casual market. Look at how they have trivialised almost all penalties; hull repairs, wear and tear, fuel costs, insurance... all have been removed as aspects which slow player 'progress', or heavily mitigated in the case of insurance loans.

Ramping up AI difficulty, even with a lowered low end (as SJA proposed), could potentially alienate bad players. Suddenly they don't feel like the uber awesome skilled space commander in their A grade whatever... they're getting their backsides kicked by npc, dying in RES and CZ, failing assassination missions, missing PP grind goals. The crying on the forum would have been intense. At management level FD are not concerned with producing a fun, challenging or interesting game. Their primary concern is customer retention and sales of future expansions. Perhaps whoever calls the financial shots has decreed that the game should remain a nice easy grind, because that's what the marketing people say will sell.

If that was the case, this game will not last for very long. However I don't believe it's the case. Something else came up and the priorities shifted. The whole problem is that many game companies think that they are work on the next Excel or OS whatever, and they are not. They are creating a time slot for many people to escape reality for a few hours. I see many players here also working in the IT business and they are very rational. Sure if you're in a protected environment where you can work on a project behind high walls, protected from the nasty mob without any interaction, you can apply all these nice theories regarding how things work.

The problem begins when you open the door, even slightly. The foot is already in the door and you need to manage this before all hell breaks loose. Unfortunately this is were several companies fail.
They just don't understand why the player base act as they do. The larger the player base become, the more you will see of forum wild fire. Not even the so called white knights can control this if the situation get out of hand. The AI need to be as good as it can be, this do not mean that it should be invincible only that it should be more diverse. If I can trick the AI then it's a bad design and need to be redone.

I will use every option in game given to me to win the fights, so there is no exploits if you can beat the AI in game, if there is a bug smash it!
 
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I honestly think there is credibility to the view that they are worried that making the game too difficult will scare away the casual market...

Let me send you a link that I believe describes a game that we will end up with if the downgrading continues:
Elite: Training wheels by Surely_Badger:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=115087

I for one does NOT hope this is where we are getting at.
I for one would welcome AI which is hard, and in some cases impossible to beat.
Making the game too easy and too rewarding would be a mistake in my opinion. I remember my first weeks in ED back in december very well: I had to struggle and work really hard to get to a cobra, and I felt it was an accomplishment. Everytime I got attacked and damaged in a costly ship, the bill was substantial. When I had to refuel my python, it costed quite a bit of money.
I for one enjoyed those hardships, and made it more rewarding for me working my way up.

With all these "penalties" gone, I was really hoping for a long awaited improvement to the AI...
 
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