FSS, ADS and .... SLBS?

[Ziggy Stardust]

This afternoon I had an idea. The idea was I was going to solve the FSS situation. Many people have been debating this, so I knew I had to do something different. Then the idea became brilliant. Instead of just thinking of a solution, I found a cardboard box, sat next to it and then started thinking of a solution. It seems so obvious doesn't it? I bet you are reading this and only now are realising this was staring you in the face for months.

And sure enough, before long the solution to making everybody happy explorers presented itself. No surprise since most of the work had already been done. Ladies and gentlesirs, I present the:

Ship Launched Ballistic Scanner
I knew I was on to a winner, it has 'ballistic' in the name you see. This is gold.

So you've heard the name, you are excited about figuring out how to use a feature that has 'ballistic' in it's name. You're only human after all. Here's how it works:

The SLBS is a module that is placed in a utility mount. It can only be fired in SC. When fired it can carry with it the information of the orbital plane when it is fired after the honk. Based on this it will accelerate perpendicular to the orbital plane. When fired before the honk, it will just fly in a straight line. After flying for a short time (5 seconds or so) it will perform it's own honk, send that data to the ship and expire.

The ship receives the data and the CMDR is able to view this while flying and even while the FSD is charging. The data will form a static non interactive 3d-ish picture from just above the orbital plane. It will be non-interactive since the device that has that vantage point expires after sending the data. It's a one time snap shot. It also has limited ranger (15,000 ls or so)

Now the CMDR will be able to see the planets orbiting the entry-star from an 'elevated' position, and will be able to determine relative distances. So in effect it will show the same FSS image if you had flown your ship to that position and entered the FSS. It will give CMDRs an idea of the layout of the system using the same blue blobs the FSS uses. Continuity, check! But that's not all ... The data the SLBS sends also includes a 360 electromagnetic signature. By using some sort of viewer (not the I-have-to-slow-down-and-can't-charge-FSD FSS, the picture we're getting is fixed, so no need to come to a stop, or not being able to charge the FSD) that signature will match the area of the system you are looking at. The viewer can rotate, shows you the blobs in the direction you're looking at, and displays the signatures of all astronomical bodies that are in view.

So ...
- There are no spoilers since the information is exactly the same as you'd get in the FSS, be it a little more focussed
- CMDRs who are looking for odd system configurations can use this to find systems like Pirin's https://i.imgur.com/FyQ7Sx9.png or marx's https://imgur.com/RsCdZIk
- The information is vague and still needs fiddling with the SLBS viewer to get that information. Silver platter not included. I'd think sliding clusters of blobs in and out of view to see the electromagnetic signature change. A run-of-the-mill gas giant with icey and rocky moons would make it show gas giant and rocky moons signals. But Pirin's cluster of gas giants would cause a lot of gas giant signals to pop up when sliding it into view. Telling there's Stellar Forge gold in them thar hills.
- It's as optional as this lady: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9tvlUE3hM If you feel them be spoilers, don't but a SLBS launcher
- It still has 'ballistic' in it's name. Reiteration for those who started doubting since the last time I mentioned this.
- It will need to be synthesized at a low cost. Normally you'd need only one per system. But if you want, you can refresh the picture again and again by firing new probes. The old pictures will be lost though. 100 SLBSs for a couple of tier one materials seems right
- Ideally for this to work the signal bar which is inside the FSS should be visible in the cockpit after the honk*
- It satisfies my personal requirement of wanting to 'zoom in' on a system in ever larger detail which takes increasing amounts of effort the further you go in.

For me, I could see the flow going:
Scooping -> Honk -> knowing how many bodies there are in a system. (*optional: knowing what kind of bodies)
Decision moment #1. Do the number (*and type) of bodies warrant a SLBS? If there's 4 bodies and you know 3 of those are stars, probably not.
The number of bodies is right -> while probably still in scooping trajectory, release the SLBS! Finish scooping and fly outside corona. Data received. Lets browse around
Decision moment #2. Any oddities in the system? By playing with the viewer you can roughly determine the lay out of the system.
Mind, this is added time to just using the FSS. No short cuts here. No ma'am. But, it will give players like me either a trigger to fire up the FSS in case of a nice system, or move on. Moving on is exiting the viewer, the FSD is nicely warmed up, point to the exit and off we go.

From there on it's business as recently usual. This has added an extra layer on exploration to give an much needed idea about the system, instead of needing to go into the FSS blindfolded.

Lastly: There's probably lots of stuff I am overlooking, or improvements on the idea. With 3.3 Frontier has put exploration in another dimension. The honk to show the system map is an ex-mechanism. Never existed in this plane of existence. The information should be in the format of the new exploration tools to make it achieve absolute creamieness. Also this thread is not another outlet to repeat the same sentiments that have been repeated ad nauseam already in many, many other threads.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I may not be fully appreciating all the nuances of this suggestion, but it sounds to me like you're simply generating a 'blue blob' orrery.
This wouldn't satisfy my requirements for an engaging and enjoyable exploration system.

 

[Old Duck]

"I would personally accept the return of the ADS as the separate, optional, expensive, power-consuming module it once was. It would add one simple thing to the current FSS – the populating of the system map of basic images of the planets in the system – no details, no zoomable 3D globes, no orrery – just the basic map to allow the targeting of planets of interest. I’d also be okay if the ADS populates the navigation panel with “Unexplored”. It would not change the FSS in any other way."

Anything else isn't going to happen. Frontier isn't going to waste the time inventing yet another new discovery mechanism.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

"I would personally accept the return of the ADS as the separate, optional, expensive, power-consuming module it once was. It would add one simple thing to the current FSS – the populating of the system map of basic images of the planets in the system – no details, no zoomable 3D globes, no orrery – just the basic map to allow the targeting of planets of interest. I’d also be okay if the ADS populates the navigation panel with “Unexplored”. It would not change the FSS in any other way."

Anything else isn't going to happen. Frontier isn't going to waste the time inventing yet another new discovery mechanism.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...aint-dry?p=7300196&highlight=RTFP#post7300196

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Nice day, isn't it?

 

[Sir.Tj]

Oh go on then, just this once but it's the last time..probably.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh go on then, just this once but it's the last time..probably.

I blame Tj for happy Ziggy!

Alright .... here goes.

Frontier's moderation staff is the best smelling and most handsome moderation staff on the internets.

 

[Old Duck]

This afternoon I had an idea.

I think the Db query for such a request would be far too cumbersome.

/karma

 

[Andovar]

"I would personally accept the return of the ADS as the separate, optional, expensive, power-consuming module it once was. It would add one simple thing to the current FSS – the populating of the system map of basic images of the planets in the system – no details, no zoomable 3D globes, no orrery – just the basic map to allow the targeting of planets of interest. I’d also be okay if the ADS populates the navigation panel with “Unexplored”. It would not change the FSS in any other way."

Anything else isn't going to happen. Frontier isn't going to waste the time inventing yet another new discovery mechanism.

As much as I appreciate the thought that went into Ziggy's proposal, I'm going to have to agree with Old Duck here.
It's the only solution that seems plausible (though still unlikely to happen)

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think the Db query for such a request would be far too cumbersome.

/karma

So, now you have 2 replies in this thread. One that shows you didn't even read the OP but had to reply. And a troll attempt. I hope you're done now

As much as I appreciate the thought that went into Ziggy's proposal, I'm going to have to agree with Old Duck here.
It's the only solution that seems plausible (though still unlikely to happen)

Can you quote me where I am arguing for a return of the ADS?

Because I can quote where I am specifically arguing AGAINST the return of the ADS. In fact this thread isn't about the ADS at all.

 

[WR3ND]

Subbed for a read later – sorry, need some rest...

If it lets me optionally explore the cosmos in first person somehow in the game on the fly beyond using parallax, it gets my vote.

 

[Old Duck]

So, now you have 2 replies in this thread. One that shows you didn't even read the OP but had to reply. And a troll attempt. I hope you're done now

Says the troll who has carpet bombed every FSS-related thread in this forum with very obvious troll poo. LOL. I was hoping you were done now, but not satisfied with the current 94 threads on the topic, you had to go and create yet another one (and then cry like a child when it was moved to the proper subforum).

One thing is for sure, the Db query on the forum servers is far too cumbersome, thanks to you lot spamming new threads on the same topic every two seconds..

The only reason I haven't added you all to my ignore list is because as long as you are trashing Frontier over the FSS (which you have done in multiple threads), people like me who love the new discovery tools need to show the developers that you are not a majority.

 

[Andovar]

Can you quote me where I am arguing for a return of the ADS?

Because I can quote where I am specifically arguing AGAINST the return of the ADS. In fact this thread isn't about the ADS at all.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that.
All I'm saying is I'm not expecting any major exploration changes or revamps. The likelihood of them bringing back the ADS is low, so the likelihood of them adding another new system is virtually zero.
Of course this is just my personal opinion based on things i've read/heard from FD.
Then again I don't work for FD, so I have no idea whats coming. I just have very low expectations that we'll see anything new/changed on this front.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Only just found this thread, OP. And in case it makes you feel better, I started a similar thread many weeks ago with a far more lengthy exposition in a similar vein to your OP. It got 4 responses.

In my version, instead of a ballistic probe (love that btw, heh), it was the ship itself that flies perpendicular to the orbital plane, collecting all that juicy spatial data. Then when enough has been collected and analysed - coincidentally, after a honk with system-dependent honk period - an orrery projection would be produced from a POV well above the orbital plane, since such an orrery can easily be evaluated and displayed from such an analysis. The FSS could then be used on blue blobs within the orrery using point-and-click, or any better UI than the awful slow-pan-and-hunt-blue-blobs mechanic.

Your ballistic probe has the advantage of allowing the ship to remain close to the star, but I say, both should be allowed! After all, if I run out of ballistic probes, _I_ want to be the ballistic probe!

Seriously though, of course something like this should have been the new discovery game design.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that.
All I'm saying is I'm not expecting any major exploration changes or revamps. The likelihood of them bringing back the ADS is low, so the likelihood of them adding another new system is virtually zero.
Of course this is just my personal opinion based on things i've read/heard from FD.
Then again I don't work for FD, so I have no idea whats coming. I just have very low expectations that we'll see anything new/changed on this front.

I'm not expecting any major changes either. Which is also why I didn't want this in the suggestion section. The thread is mainly to cause people to think of ways to get what they wanted from the ADS, while staying with the new direction Frontier has taken.

Only just found this thread, OP. And in case it makes you feel better, I started a similar thread many weeks ago with a far more lengthy exposition in a similar vein to your OP. It got 4 responses.

In my version, instead of a ballistic probe (love that btw, heh), it was the ship itself that flies perpendicular to the orbital plane, collecting all that juicy spatial data. Then when enough has been collected and analysed - coincidentally, after a honk with system-dependent honk period - an orrery projection would be produced from a POV well above the orbital plane, since such an orrery can easily be evaluated and displayed from such an analysis. The FSS could then be used on blue blobs within the orrery using point-and-click, or any better UI than the awful slow-pan-and-hunt-blue-blobs mechanic.

Your ballistic probe has the advantage of allowing the ship to remain close to the star, but I say, both should be allowed! After all, if I run out of ballistic probes, _I_ want to be the ballistic probe!

Seriously though, of course something like this should have been the new discovery game design.

It's easy enough to see both solutions working alongside each other.

 

[Runnybabbit]

Ziggy, I read it, I liked it, I get it...

I welcome this, seems just as plausible, the SLBS can be about it's business, while you deal with 'other' occurrences, such as people trying to kill you or hijack your cargo, and all that without the clunkiness of changing "cockpit modes" from exploration to combat, and vice-versa. Then, if you want to do close up and personal surface scans, you can!

For the 'on-the-fencers', this could turn into optional kit to be bought and installed from supplying stations, whether you want the original honk, the FSS, or the SLBS.

....works for me!

 

[[VR] Merkir]

I'm not expecting any major changes either. Which is also why I didn't want this in the suggestion section. The thread is mainly to cause people to think of ways to get what they wanted from the ADS, while staying with the new direction Frontier has taken.


It's easy enough to see both solutions working alongside each other.

And not just working alongside. Actually bringing some verismilitude to discovery, because the current FSS mechanic (note, mechanic) is simply bad. Whoever at FDev thought explorers are supposed to ply their trade through a hand-eye coordination procedure via an ill conceived 1950's radar mechanic should be thoroughly spanked.

Or put another way:
1. Combat - requires hand-eye game play - makes sense,
2. Mining - requires hand-eye mini-game - makes sense,
3. Discovery - requires hand-eye mini-game - WhoaWhatThe??

Was a strategy game design for discovery never considered in the FDev offices? Did it have to be a lock-picking game? And a lock-picking game explorers are forced to use, what, 10,000 times? 20,000? 50,000?

 

[Old Duck]

.. because the current FSS mechanic (note, mechanic) is simply bad. Whoever at FDev thought explorers are supposed to ply their trade through a hand-eye coordination procedure via an ill conceived 1950's radar mechanic should be thoroughly spanked.

My message is, "Whoever at FDev invented this brilliant space telescope for our ships should be given a raise and their own parking spot."

 

[[VR] Merkir]

... this brilliant space telescope ...

And it's such a brilliant space telescope that FDev made the decision to change it in a patch - instead of lining up circle-within-circle-within-blob to within 30 pixels, they changed it to 15 pixels (or whatever), because, you know, the tool had to be made more difficult. Because we all know explorers need to practice their hand-eye coordination. Apparently that makes complete sense and is logically consistent within the FDev game world??

It's FDev treating players like 6 year olds, but perhaps that type of change was good in your opinion? Like repeating elephant butt jokes 50 times?

 

[Old Duck]

but perhaps that type of change was good in your opinion?

Well since you asked,

Spoiler

The following is a prerecorded message in response to any and all threads and posts that fall under the topic “The FSS Is $NEGATIVE_DESCRIPTION_OF_FSS_AND_RELATED_TOOLS”.

As a serious explorer, I personally love the FSS and related tools. When I drop out of hyperspace, I’m entering an entirely new and potentially undiscovered solar system. I mean, wow! Once I refuel my ship, I put a little distance between me and the star, then I “park” the ship, pop out of my pilot’s chair and go over to my science station (cue slide of Mr. Spock looking into his scanner). This is a seamless transition, like getting into my SRV.

This “science station” is the output of a visual, radio, and gravimetric telescope array built into my ship’s sensors. It sees 3D space around my ship, with the ability to zoom in and focus on specific objects in the solar system. In order to automatically focus in on a specific object (focusing over long distances is no trivial task), I need to match the frequency of the telescope’s focal algorithm to that of the planet or signal – the “tuning the dial” part of the procedure. This lets me zoom in and focus both optically and radiometricly to both “see” the planet and generate detailed statistics. Like Galileo, once I “discover” a planet using my telescope, I get credit for that discovery, assuming I’m the first.

Speaking of discovery, I really like that the system map remains unpopulated until I actually find, magnify, and catalog a planet. I was never a fan of the “Google Galaxy” map view we automatically were given with the ADS. That’s not discovery, that’s tourism.

Now I can continue to scan the entire system from this parked location, or I can choose to immediately go to a planet of interest and map it. One of the advantages of the latter is that my ship will automatically detect and catalog any planets nearby. So for example, if I select a gas giant with a dozen moons, I just need to scan the GG in the FSS, and then fly to the GG and the moons will be all scanned and cataloged using the close-range sensors, thus greatly reducing my time using the FSS. Not mandatory, but it’s a cool little trick for CMDRs who like having a reason to fly to planets to explore them.

I personally find the FSS very similar to real-life stargazing. I scan the sky IRL with my high-powered binoculars, finding planets and stars of interest, then crosscheck them using my astronomical software, which gives me a page of statistics. Then I can go visit them in my SUV….. Wait, forget that last part.

It is possible to be very fast and efficient using the FSS with practice. That said, I actually enjoy the extra time it takes me to scan and catalog a system, followed by mapping and even landing on planets of interest. It adds a sense of immersion, accomplishment, depth, and scale that was sorely lacking before 3.3 dropped.

That’s not to say I find the FSS and DSS to be perfect. I have a list of very minor changes and adjustments I’d like made to the FSS, DSS, and Analysis HUD. But I find the concepts Frontier implemented to be fun, engaging, immersive, brilliant!

Now there are those who want the old ADS back, or worse, want to integrate ADS functionality into the FSS for everyone. I would accept the ADS being brought back as the optional, expensive module that takes up an additional slot, just like it used to be, adding its features to the FSS when installed. The key word there is OPTIONAL.

This concludes my defense of the Full Spectrum System Scanner.

Don't open that spoiler. Seriously, don't do it!