Engineers G5 Dirty Drives made me quit

[Kyul]

I have poured countless hours into Elite. I thought I'd keep playing this game almost indefinitely, but Engineers has ruined this experience. I started playing open once I thought I had enough of a cushion with insurance, and enough upgrades to hold my own a bit with other average players. With my upgraded Clipper I thought I was ready. At a community goal I encountered a player pirate. He always seemed to always be there and kept interdicting me as I tried to reach the next tier of the goal. Ok good! This is what I wanted.. player interaction. I sussed him out. He was in a big lumbering cutter, and I had my sleek clipper. No problem. I should be able to outpace this guy easily. Wrong. Even with my upgraded G4 clean thrusters he easily ran me down and destroyed me. 3 times in a row. 15 million down the drain I was wondering how this was possible, so I asked him in my death throes and before he killed me he said. Engineers. Dirty drives. Ok, so if I want to have my super fast ship I need dirty drives! I'm sure that won't be too impossible to get.

I don't get a lot of time to play this game these days. At the very least I need a sense of progress each time I play or I won't bother, I don't want a second job. I'm sure you all know the barriers to entry to getting G5 thrusters. I hacked away at it. Got Sirius permit. Now 25 modular terminals... then I need unknown fragments, then cracked firmware...literally tens or possibly even over a hundred hour of mundane work all so I can have the feeling of being empowered enough to RUN AWAY.

I quit.

For anyone who doesn't have engineers, they are at a MASSIVE disadvantage to players who have it and have the time to bother with this ridiculous mind numbing grind. I am bored of the game, bored of feeling that no matter how much time I put into my ship, it's a pile of sh*t compared to other CMDRs who have certain upgrades. The game lacks a lot of satisfaction now. I know I can't take on other players. I can't even run away from them. They can just interdict at will and demand whatever they want. What the is the point of playing open then? And solo is a desert. I wanted to post this simply because I have put so many hours into this game and I'm really quite frustrated. I want the developers to know it. Why 25 modular terminals? Why the random mission rewards mechanic? Why does creating this time sink = satisfaction? It Doesn't! The good feeling I would get from finally getting those G5s WOULD NOT BE WORTH THE SACRIFICE OF MY FREE TIME AND THE HOURS OF DULL REPETITIVE .

End of rant.

 

[Tyzah]

I got my G5 Thrusters with a very good roll today... and I just started yesterday evening to hunt the cracked industrial FW, I found it in the area where you buy the exhaust manifold too. (Industrial systems mission rewards and scanning a surface base)

G5 on a Python is so wonderfull.... it was almost worth the stupid time sink...


now for lightweight armor ^^

boosting 437 currently [big grin]

 

[Ozram]

Dude, you are so supremely more maneuverable than he is. Cutter is a fine ship but Clipper can swivel like it's nobodies business. Next time, get behind him until you can high wake.
Cheers and good luck. Definitely not trying to belittle your frustration.
Merry Christmas!
Ozram

 

[SimImperial]

Cutters are big and lumbering. They take a while to stop. They are slow to turn and the pitch rate is crap. But one thing they can do is go fast in a straight line.
I have one that boost right at 445+. I feel you frustration. To get way from this over rated whale try submitting to the interdiction then boost and at the same time
roll 180 inverted, flight assist off pull up hard about 80 degrees flight assist on, boost. and repeat the procedure then hit the FSD out of there. The 180 inverted is
important, this will hide you from the Cutters top turrets but will expose you to the Huge gun at the bottom so be careful.
Remember, the cutter will build up speed that he cant bleed off fast enough to pull up behind you.

Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Klab]

Clipper is the speedboat, Cutter is the oil tanker. Fight to your strengths not his.

 

[GJ51]

Cutter's no slouch

38% G5 Dirty Drives = 492M/s boost.

It just don't stop very fast

Still can't keep pace with a G5 DD Cobra or Orca that boost over 550M/s or the Courier at around 540.

Speed is life in ED for now.

I think my Clipper with my best G5DD is about the same 540 -550 M/S.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Never boost from a cutter unless you are heading in opposite directions. You don't need any mods on a clipper to escape from a cutter.

 

[nathdixon92]

My combat clipper does 584ms....just saying.

 

[Nerwan]

So you don't want to do the "grind" for the engineers (which by the way I'm now doing on my 9th ship and kind of enjoying) but you did the much more tedious imperial navy grind?

 

[xondk]

For anyone who doesn't have engineers, they are at a MASSIVE disadvantage to players who have it and have the time to bother with this ridiculous mind numbing grind.

Yet, only when it comes to PvP, and this is what it is like with all games that have expansions, and it isn't going to change, there really isn't a reason not to get the expansions, and considering the pricing its dirt cheap compared to so many other games.

 

[Nerwan]

EDIT: Please remove

 

[Para Handy]

Easy solution to the OP''s predicament:

Don't play OPEN - Solo or a PvE group.

Engineers makes Solo a death-trap for those of us that are not engineered-up-to-the-eyeballs and so there is no incentive to see hollow rectangles when just one hollow triangle presages an insurance screen.

 

[goemon]

first of all, good rant and i feel you. the worst thing about G5 dirty drives for me is that most of the way to it was waiting for spawns, which never makes good gameplay. at least if you like exploration (and i do).

second of all: yes, engineers unbalanced any non-consensual pvp combat. that includes even running.

beyond the very good tips above, and the possibility to join a group without non consesual pvp combat, if you own horizons and have the rank (and it reads like you do), you could always outfit a courier with enhanced drives - this will be faster than any cutter, without engineering your thrusters.

but i miss the days when you could go blockade runing in a cobra mkIII - a ship every player could own after some hours.

 

[Heavenly-Hammer]

1.) The difference between Grade 5 drives and Grade 4 drives is fairly minimal given the usual optimal mass tradeoff. Maybe 10m/s on average? You would have lost that fight with or without Grade 5 Dirty drives.

2.) Having a good ship doesn't mean you know what to do with it. Blaming your 3 consecutive losses on your max speed if only compounding your problem by failing to properly identify the actual issue: your flying. A Cutter should take forever to kill a Clipper. Like 7-10 minutes. And that's only if you choose to stay. You have the ability with superior pitch speeds to stay out of his line of fire more than long enough to high wake. You should also be able to pound his shields with relative impunity because your ship is far more agile while being equally as fast (or faster). It sounds like you flew poorly, expecting human pilots to behave like stupid NPCs. You got corrected. You need to work on your fundamental flying mechanics.

Trying to go from SOLO to engaging in PvP combat with no prior experience in a costly ship was just a bad decision. That's like thinking you're ready for the Indy 500 because you bought an Indy car and drove it for a few laps by yourself. That's not how it works. And you managed to repeat that bad decision 3 times as if the first time shouldn't have been a clear enough lesson. Then you decided to post here about taking your toys home and leaving? Nah bruh. If you want to be able to fight other CMDRs, you need to learn the difference in combat between PvE and PvP combat. Loadouts, techniques, best practices, how to escape if need be. It seems some of that may be new to you; the results are expected.

3.) If your issue was being interdicted by the same ship, you should have taken a long route to your destination. A path that the Cutter would have been unlikely to follow. 99% chance here you just tried to take a straight line from the star to the station. Then again, you said you wanted to fight, so I guess you got what you wanted.

4.) It will take you maybe 4-6 hours to unlock Palin. Maybe another 2-4 to gather the materials. Probably not "weeks" or "months", but it really depends on how long it wil take you go get 6-10 hours of free time to play. It's not hard and yes, it's supposed to be time consuming. You're supposed to have to play the game to get these things. I can do 20 rolls of G5 Dirtys right now if I wanted to and I got those mats just by playing the game; only one material did I spend time getting (Pharmaseutical Isolators; got 28 in about 1.5 hours). Most things you find while looking for other things.

 

[Moritz Norman]

I've been saying that DD5 should have been an accessible upgrade at Farseer to keep the playing field more even for casuals and traders. I just feel like it drives players from Open.

That aside, even with a DD5 cargo weighs you down more than HRPs weigh down combat ships, for some reason. So you really aren't outrunning much in Open in a cargo Clipper unfortunately.

- - - Updated - - -

My combat clipper does 584ms....just saying.

Is that lightweight armor / shield tank?

I run a hulltank Clipper, just curious about your build.

 

[Evil_Merlin]

I hear you.

I don't Engineer. I don't spend the time needed in it, and thus have totally left Open and keep playing in my own little world.

I tried it once and ended up, one of the very few time ever even seeing anyone in the game, getting jumped by an Anaconda engineered to the max. I could barely outmanuver him in my Vulture, fully kitted out. While he couldn't get behind me, I couldn't dent his shields and when he hit me I lost two stacks of shields in one hit.

Five hits later, I was dead.


not fun when you cannot fight back, because usually Anacondas are not much of an issue for me as long as I can outfly them. Overboosted shields, better engines etc, all make the grind frustrating at times.

 

[vernonator]

I hear you.

I don't Engineer. I don't spend the time needed in it, and thus have totally left Open and keep playing in my own little world.

I tried it once and ended up, one of the very few time ever even seeing anyone in the game, getting jumped by an Anaconda engineered to the max. I could barely outmanuver him in my Vulture, fully kitted out. While he couldn't get behind me, I couldn't dent his shields and when he hit me I lost two stacks of shields in one hit.

Five hits later, I was dead.


not fun when you cannot fight back, because usually Anacondas are not much of an issue for me as long as I can outfly them. Overboosted shields, better engines etc, all make the grind frustrating at times.

I am taking the same approach - I have precious little time to play and am not wasting it on the Engineer Grind.....

 

[Ian Skippy]

That aside, even with a DD5 cargo weighs you down more than HRPs weigh down combat ships, for some reason. So you really aren't outrunning much in Open in a cargo Clipper unfortunately.

No, one ton of cargo slows you down as much as one ton of HRP. Its just that tradeships can carry hundreds and hundreds of tons of cargo, whereas combat ship have far less additional armor.

- - - Updated - - -

I hear you.

I don't Engineer. I don't spend the time needed in it, and thus have totally left Open and keep playing in my own little world.

I tried it once and ended up, one of the very few time ever even seeing anyone in the game, getting jumped by an Anaconda engineered to the max. I could barely outmanuver him in my Vulture, fully kitted out. While he couldn't get behind me, I couldn't dent his shields and when he hit me I lost two stacks of shields in one hit.

Five hits later, I was dead.


not fun when you cannot fight back, because usually Anacondas are not much of an issue for me as long as I can outfly them. Overboosted shields, better engines etc, all make the grind frustrating at times.

A conda, unloaded, with 7A thrusters with perfect roll DD5, will pitch at 37d/s. This is a conda without weapons, cargo, utilities. A stock Vulture with 5E drives, unmodded, will pitch at 43d/s. Worst case scenario you were +-16% more agile. In normal combat conditions you'd be +-33% more agile with an A-rated vulture versus a perfectly modded conda.

The reason you could 'barely outmanouver' him is because he was a better pilot.

 

[Kubicide]

Many seem to miss a key point aside from the numerous grind walls which is a Cutter (large ship) doing crazy speeds thanks to the OP'ness of RNGineers. It's really just silly to design the game allowing the largest ships to go this fast. This should be exclusive to the smaller ships to offset their reduced firepower. FDev clearly doesn't understand game balance as speed is often a very powerful characteristic for balance in a game - except this one where everything can go crazy fast.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Many seem to miss a key point aside from the numerous grind walls which is a Cutter (large ship) doing crazy speeds thanks to the OP'ness of RNGineers. It's really just silly to design the game allowing the largest ships to go this fast. This should be exclusive to the smaller ships to offset their reduced firepower. FDev clearly doesn't understand game balance as speed is often a very powerful characteristic for balance in a game - except this one where everything can go crazy fast.

An Imperial cutter with 8A perfect roll DD5 drives does what? 300 cruise/400 boost? Thats not even remotely close to what my small ships can do. A well-engineered 2.2.03 Viper mk3 can cruise at 500m/s and boost well over 600m/s.