Galactic Economy Broken for Large Transport Ships (Type 7/9)

[DocStone]

The biggest mistake so far I have made in the game was to trade up my Type 6 for a Type 7. I shall explain why below:

Upgrading Pros:
Double Cargo Capacity

Upgrading Cons:
Cannot dock on outposts/terminals
Cannot trade in certain commodities (resonating separators - see above)
Cannot accept more than half of the Bulletin Board Missions due to inability to land on outposts/terminals
Wear and tear cost of over 8000 Credits per per percentage

Basically I was making twice the money in the Type 6 in half the time I am in the Type 7. Add in the state of the economy at the moment and it really is pointless having such a large ship. I have now travelled over 600 Light years and have visited over 50 stations in the past few days trying to find a trade route (not involving rares) that would be the equivalent of the profits I was making in my Type 6 and have drawn a blank. I also have to check the destination for every Bulletin Board Mission to ensure that it is not an Outpost/Terminal, some of which involve destinations that cannot be checked using the Galaxy Map as the Map Data is not available, so you either have to have memorised all the different types of stations or physically visit the system and hope the mission is there when you get back.

None of the Bulletin Board Missions are designed for larger cargo ships, no "Deliver 150 tonnes of this there" or "Deliver 40 tonnes of this, 30 tonnes of this and 50 tonnes of that" even when you have made friends with the Factions. The game just hits a brick wall as soon as you make the move up and becomes a complete strain and is no longer enjoyable to play. Up until a few days ago I was having great fun, but buying the Type 7 combined with the Economic Crash has destroyed the game. I am too stubborn to go back to the Type 6 and quite simply I don't see why I should - the game is all about the grind and the climb, moving from better to better ships, and I want my Anaconda and I just cannot see it happening if things stay the same with regards the larger ships.

Please take some time and make the game more enjoyable for the larger ships. I don't want to be making millions upon millions, but I do expect to be making more than I did on a smaller ship and a wee bit easier.

Cheers!

 

[ChubbyBunneh]

All true. I sold my Type 7 and went back to trading rares in the Cobra instead.

I don't understand why the T7 has to use the giant landing pads. It barely fills the circle in the middle when you land. If it could fit on medium pads like the Python (which hauls almost as much cargo but is good in battle as well) the T7 wouldn't be quite so useless.

Or if the T7 hauled 250-275T of cargo losing the ability to land in most places would be a more even trade off.

 

[DocStone]

It is worth noting to check all Bulletin Board Missions as they get flagged "Unacceptable" for everything apart from the inability to land on the destination station. It is just so frustrating.

 

[Raylion]

I think I read somewhere that the Python can land at terminals (can't confirm yet as I'm still in my Asp) but I think I'll probably give the type 7 and type 9 a miss if they can't land at terminals.

 

[Frenotx]

I really feel like the type-7 should be able to land on medium pads... It's hold isn't quite big enough to justify such a significant disadvantage.

I think I read somewhere that the Python can land at terminals (can't confirm yet as I'm still in my Asp) but I think I'll probably give the type 7 and type 9's a miss if it can't land at terminals.

The python uses the medium sized pad. Needles to say, it's my long-term, "one day I'll get there" ship.

 

[mic]

I'll give the market a day or two to recover from the excessive NPC trading, but so far it does look at bit bleak in the +100 ton department.

 

[DocStone]

I really feel like the type-7 should be able to land on medium pads... It's hold isn't quite big enough to justify such a significant disadvantage.

The python uses the medium sized pad. Needles to say, it's my long-term, "one day I'll get there" ship.

I agree, but I think that due to the height of the ship model this cannot be done (there would be massive clipping when entering the hanger) although they could make it possible to land on medium pads but not enter hanger/swap ships/outfit etc. As it is, way more than 60% of the Trade Opportunities are unavailable and it becomes a complete waste of time and money - in effect it is a completely useless ship and serves no purpose in the game.

 

[FX2K]

None of the Bulletin Board Missions are designed for larger cargo ships, no "Deliver 150 tonnes of this there" or "Deliver 40 tonnes of this, 30 tonnes of this and 50 tonnes of that" even when you have made friends with the Factions. The game just hits a brick wall as soon as you make the move up and becomes a complete strain and is no longer enjoyable to play.

I have to agree, the game should offer more missions designed for the larger ships, they should have a purpose.
The fact that missions can be accepted when you can't dock somewhere should also be prevented perhaps... it won't let you take a mission if you don't have enough cargo space to do the trip in one, so why does it let you if you can never fulfill it.

I would also love to see long-haul type missions with large qty of goods requiring shipment for a decent profit.. remembering these ships can potentially cost a small fortune to maintain, such as wear and tear / repairs / fuel (unless you have a scoop) and insurance premium if you have an accident. So it has to be profitable... but out of reach for the smaller ships. Everything costs substantially more in a large ship.

You don't see articulated lorries delivery your mail door-to-door for a reason, its uneconomical to do so... yet the larger ships in ED have the same role as the smaller ones. Door to door milk runs.

Similar issues arise with other professions too though, Interdicting in a python for example is uneconomical. It costs a great deal more than the potential bounty you would receive just in repairs for the damage incurred. You also never seem to be interdicted EVER, not even by an anaconda or another python (npc of course) and since its uneconomical to perform interdictions, other players in large ships will more than likely not fit the device.. Yet when flying happily in my cobra, I would be interdicted continuously by pythons and anacondas

P.S.. Yes, pythons can land at terminals.

 

[Britannkic]

I've seen big trade missions, largest so far was 86t can't remember of what. I'm at Allied status with that faction

thing is you should trading gold, superconductors etc if you can find the 1000 - 1500cr margin trade route

 

[DocStone]

I've seen big trade missions, largest so far was 86t can't remember of what. I'm at Allied status with that faction

thing is you should trading gold, superconductors etc if you can find the 1000 - 1500cr margin trade route

The thing is at the moment that profit margin just isn't there as there is absolutely no demand in the galaxy. Nothing is higher than medium demand and they are usually priced less than Galactic average, also they hardly ever give a return cargo. As for your 86 tonne cargo runs, that's Type 6 territory and not applicable for a Type 7.

 

[Beermachine]

Agree also.
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The biggest mistake I've made is buying a Type 9. While 480T is nice, the number of drawbacks seem to far outweigh the potential additional profit:
- Much more expensive wear / tear and repairs.
-5 Million insurance cost for a fairly barebones setup (D's mainly except FSD A which is essential due to terrible jump range when loaded). Rising to a risk factor of 8M+ with a full load of expensive goods (which are the only ones that cover fuel costs adequately!)
- 300,000cr for a full load of fuel, or spend ages with a A3 fuel scoop as buying a high size one is pointless as it negates the reason to be flying a cargo ship.
- Incredibly slow and flies like a pregnant space cow, impossible to avoid most interdictions (where as in a cobra / asp / python with D thruster's it's impossible to get interdicted unless incredibly drunk / very rare near instant interdictor). Decent shield / cell bank essential, again more cost and less cargo space.
- Speed / maneuverability makes the whole docking process much slower than a cargo fitted ASP for example, not to mention ship size means having to nudge NPC's who get stuck / ram you in the letterbox that are easily avoided in smaller ships.
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The overall costs far outweigh the benefits, and with missions tailored even at high reputation to small cargo spaces a fast cobra / asp (not even too sure about the Python, definitely better than the space cow though) seems to be the ideal trading setup for maximum profits with minimal risks.

 

[Britannkic]

The thing is at the moment that profit margin just isn't there as there is absolutely no demand in the galaxy. Nothing is higher than medium demand and they are usually priced less than Galactic average, also they hardly ever give a return cargo. As for your 86 tonne cargo runs, that's Type 6 territory and not applicable for a Type 7.

I have a 1200cr gold route and a similar superconductor route they are there you just got to find them, typically 5 to 10 jump routes

as you go up the transport sizes you need to alter strategy. You can't just scale up your current strategy

 

[mic]

Good points re. the Type 9. AFAIK wear and tear doesn't actually do anything at the moment, so don't spend your credits on that until FD implements components degrading due to w/t.

 

[chessmaster42]

I feel like I'm in the same boat here. It feels to me that ever since I upgraded from my Type-6 to my current Type-7 that I'm being punished for doing so and it's wearing away at the joy I normally experience when playing this game. Plenty of places have good prices and high supply but nobody wants to buy anything. The market demand has gone totally flat and that combined with the limited station access that comes with a large size ship makes it feel like I'm somehow "doing it wrong" or being punished for my earlier success allowing me to purchase and operate a Type-7.

 

[Araviel]

i don't see anything broken tbh, you just discovered that bigger is not always better in elite.

 

[FX2K]

I have a 1200cr gold route and a similar superconductor route they are there you just got to find them, typically 5 to 10 jump routes

as you go up the transport sizes you need to alter strategy. You can't just scale up your current strategy

I do also agree with this though too... but I said that in another thread... I will try and find such a route tonight.
The profit margins are there and can be found, perhaps a bit harder to find when having to take station size into consideration.

 

[DocStone]

I have a 1200cr gold route and a similar superconductor route they are there you just got to find them, typically 5 to 10 jump routes

as you go up the transport sizes you need to alter strategy. You can't just scale up your current strategy

What ship are you using for that route? Also, how did you manage to find a station with a High Demand when it seems no-one else can?

 

[Britannkic]

I'm using a cobra but about to upgrade to type 6. I lost my type 7 to Empire aggression because the took offence at me selling their military plans to the Federation

find a high supply, typically 8700 cr / ton and sell to a med demand which go up to 9900 cr / ton. High demand will take you to 10,300 cr / ton territory

 

[Beermachine]

I have a 1200cr gold route and a similar superconductor route they are there you just got to find them, typically 5 to 10 jump routes

as you go up the transport sizes you need to alter strategy. You can't just scale up your current strategy

5-10 jump routes are pointless in a Type 9, fuel costs or time lost scooping / running economic routes make them not profitable for the time involved. Or rather not desirable when compared to running the same route in a Type 6 / no shield cargo fitted long range ASP with much less risks involved and overall profits not a lot worse as they can be run MUCH faster.

 

[S~P]

I agree, but I think that due to the height of the ship model this cannot be done (there would be massive clipping when entering the hanger) although they could make it possible to land on medium pads but not enter hanger/swap ships/outfit etc. As it is, way more than 60% of the Trade Opportunities are unavailable and it becomes a complete waste of time and money - in effect it is a completely useless ship and serves no purpose in the game.

Thanks for posting about this Docstone, I was thinking about investing in the T7 myself, like the look of the ship. But if it can't dock at terminals then it's pointless, most of my missions take me to outposts.