Game Depth

[Hilight]

I know it's all the cliche to say that Elite lacks depth but my experience in the game has been much different. I've been playing Elite since around Jan 1 2015. In the beginning the game seemed very deep to me because there was so much to learn and so many things to be doing (many of which I've not yet tried even now) and most of all, so many places to go. As a trader, one of the things that is important to me is that there are a great deal of places to travel to and do my trading. No matter where I go or how many places I visit, there are that many more places that I've not yet been. I know some might say that all the stations appear the same, but that’s not true in the sense that good trading routes throughout the galaxy all involve flying varying distances to different combinations of stations, and finding good routes is rather like a hunt for treasure that involves both luck and a certain amount of skill. It depends as well upon the sort of ship you are flying. If you fly a Python, for example, you can stop at outposts of various layouts, while flying a Clipper requires a different set of stations in the same area. If you own more than one ship, you can end up spending a considerable amount of time ferreting out many different routes in the same general area of the galaxy. The simple fact of that sort of variety, created a great deal of depth for me for many months. Add to that the good variety of the sorts of trading available--- rares trading, trading missions, smuggling, commodity trading, long routes such as the silk road, one way serial-jump trading...for a trader, Elite is heaven.


Then came the update with galactic powers. I signed up with Mahon and spent several enjoyable weeks doing a combination of rares trading and merit farming. Now, Mahon's area of influence is near the system I call home, so I worked out a long route with eight stops, several of which where in Mahon space so I could get the trading bonuses. I would never have been able to work out such a route if I hadn't spent so much time trading in that general area of the bubble. I guarantee no matter which part of the galaxy you happen to frequent, the more time you spend there, the more things you learn. All is not apparent on just a cursory passing through. This fact is representative of depth available in the game, if you take the time to look.


Helping Mahon out and watching his fortunes wax and wane as the weeks rolled by added even more depth to the game for me. After a time, his area of influence brought several more of the stops along my route, including my home system, into his area of influence. I was even able to contribute a considerable amount of trade vouchers to the specific expansion that brought my home system under his influence. Mahon's expansions added depth for me both in the sense that it's proven to be an economic bonanza that I was able to help bring about, and as a participant in a bubble-wide weekly drama. Along the way, the controlling faction in my home system expanded into a new system and I contributed to the economic boom that made this possible. Then the controlling faction in my home system had a war and changed hands and so I had to spend some time getting on the good side of the new group that ran things in my neck of the woods


These days I have six ships totaling around five hundred million in assets. If I grow tired of my normal routes, I break out the DBX and do missions or smuggling for a while, or the Python and do routes that involve outposts, and occasionally, I take part in a CG. I also have a Asp equipped for mining, although I've only dipped my toe in that so far. Meanwhile, the galaxy remains broad and very much alive. There are player groups such as Mobus, I've yet to try, deep space exploring, a constant flow of player driven news and events such as the Hutton Mug CG to participate in if I chose to and CQC, of which I've only flown in for a short time once. .. and now Horizons is just around the corner. Then there are all the things available that I've never had much interest in doing but occupy the time of a great number of players--- Strong signals, weak signals, HRES , LRES, PvP, PvE, BH, pirating...All this adds up to a game that began both broad and deep and grows only more so with the passing months..... and all of that will never even show up on your radar if all you concern yourself with is credits per hour.

 

[Volthorne]

I think you're confusing "depth" with "breadth" ("width" for the less linguistically inclined) and "immersion".

 

[Cynaqq]

I think you're confusing "depth" with "breadth" ("width" for the less linguistically inclined) and "immersion".

Yeah, the game is an inch deep and a mile broad.

Did I do it right?

 

[StarTux]

I think you're confusing "depth" with "breadth" ("width" for the less linguistically inclined) and "immersion".

People also have their own ideas on depth, but yeah it is improving, but not necessarily in ways people want right away or even in perceived directions. Hope that made sense. . I had some fun synthesizing materials and look forward to seeing what we can actually make later on.

Honestly, it might take another 6+ months to see what Horizon's really is about and whether or not depth has improved.

 

[Rami77]

"I signed up with Mahon and spent several enjoyable weeks doing a combination of rares trading and merit farming."

Says is all.

With all respect, but ppl that enjoy (repetetive) farming should not talk about the depth of a game, sorry.

 

[Hilight]

I think you're confusing "depth" with "breadth" ("width" for the less linguistically inclined) and "immersion".

Different people have different conceptions of game depth. If my conception of game depth is different than yours, it indicates we have differing opinions, not that anyone is confusing anything with anything else. One person looks at a star-field and sees a thousand opportunities. Another looks at the same star-field and sees a thousand white dots that all look pretty much the same. A lot of people don't like it, but your experience with virtually anything really does boil down to your own perceptions.

****EDIT*** Added comment

"I signed up with Mahon and spent several enjoyable weeks doing a combination of rares trading and merit farming."

Says is all.

With all respect, but ppl that enjoy (repetetive) farming should not talk about the depth of a game, sorry.

At the time people were complaining that it cost too much to gain merits. I found that I could make as much money as I spent by a combination of trading rares and buying merits. People perform repetitive tasks in practically every game they ever play. Such actions have little to do with game depth or lack of it. For example, when I play Civilization, I research technologies over and over again and repeatedly move units from place to place but no one is going to claim that game lacks depth

 

[Cynaqq]

"I signed up with Mahon and spent several enjoyable weeks doing a combination of rares trading and merit farming."

Says is all.

With all respect, but ppl that enjoy (repetetive) farming should not talk about the depth of a game, sorry.

Then building on the same idea, it could be said people who don't enjoy repetitive tasks should not play this game and talk about it at all since the game has a lot of repetition.

 

[Volthorne]

Yeah, the game is an inch deep and a mile broad.

Did I do it right?

Lose the sarcasm. Depth is how interconnected systems influence each other and the universe as a whole, and then the impact it feeds back to you as a player. For example, in Dishonored, if you kill lots of enemies (city militia, in this case), more of them show up in later missions (and all city militia also become more wary overall, making stealth harder) and the plague also gets worse, resulting in more shamblers (basically plague zombies) and less side missions to in which assist the populace, which means less resources for you to utilize the further into the game you go. Essentially, how you play the game influences how much you need to rely on your skill as a player and how much the game mechanics work for/against you.

None of the mechanics in Elite actually connect with each other in a manner sufficient to provide any meaningful depth. The closest that FD have come to providing us with such a semblance was PP, and that fell far short of the mark when it didn't enforce a sense of, well, anything really. So what if Mahon gained control over the OP's "home" system? The economy didn't actually get any stronger. The fact that FD has to give players a reason to participate in PP in the form of weekly leaderboards and "unique" equipment drives home the point. If PP instead encouraged players to make their power bigger/stronger because in turn it made the services provided by said power better (and harsher, more all-encompassing penalties for deserting - say, for example, decreased merit retention and gain for a few cycles (making it harder for you to climb the ranks in whatever power you defected to)), then we'd actually be starting to get some REAL depth in the game.

 

[Laste]

I tried to do the grind. I found a sweet spot and did long hauls for 30 million minimum. It took me 350lyrs, but it also took me 3 to 5 hrs at a time. All i saw was 4,3,2,1 engage, jump, refuel, BE INTERDICTED, line up, do it again. In some cases it was 35 or more jumps to get where i was going. Again once at the system it was hoping like crazy it wasn't 20000 away. Exit supercruise, Get permission to dock, Have an npc shoot at you for a bit. Do the bulletin board. Launch and head to the next station, to do it again and again. It was slowly sucking the enjoyment of the game from me. I actually found i like to go to a system and pick up a few random jobs, maybe some smuggling, pirate hunt, bounties, whatever. Jump around that little section of space and pick up other things as i go. Maybe next will be mapping who knows. I wish the stations felt more alive when you got there. Maybe some npcs walking around inside the buildings in the station.Some different vehicles would be nice. Maybe a fuel truck on the pad. I like the game but sometimes it feels devoid of life. Even horizons looks like the same thing but now on land.

 

[sp0q]

@OP

You could've just use the current active thread on the subject. We get you point, it's fine that you like it. Our point is that everything you listed does not mean one bit, even on a single system scale.

 

[sbdags]

Lose the sarcasm. Depth is how interconnected systems influence each other and the universe as a whole, and then the impact it feeds back to you as a player. For example, in Dishonored, if you kill lots of enemies (city militia, in this case), more of them show up in later missions (and all city militia also become more wary overall, making stealth harder) and the plague also gets worse, resulting in more shamblers (basically plague zombies) and less side missions to in which assist the populace, which means less resources for you to utilize the further into the game you go. Essentially, how you play the game influences how much you need to rely on your skill as a player and how much the game mechanics work for/against you.

None of the mechanics in Elite actually connect with each other in a manner sufficient to provide any meaningful depth. The closest that FD have come to providing us with such a semblance was PP, and that fell far short of the mark when it didn't enforce a sense of, well, anything really. So what if Mahon gained control over the OP's "home" system? The economy didn't actually get any stronger. The fact that FD has to give players a reason to participate in PP in the form of weekly leaderboards and "unique" equipment drives home the point. If PP instead encouraged players to make their power bigger/stronger because in turn it made the services provided by said power better (and harsher, more all-encompassing penalties for deserting - say, for example, decreased merit retention and gain for a few cycles (making it harder for you to climb the ranks in whatever power you defected to)), then we'd actually be starting to get some REAL depth in the game.

Depth is highly subjective. Your view is the opposite of mine.

Depth to me means immersive and how involved I feel. In Elite I am nobody. I will always be nobody. And I love that! That offers me real depth (note not breadth). I can live many different roles and plan many activities on my own without having my hand held.

Most games these days are linear and guide the player to the next objective. Elite does none of this which is why it offers depth to its gameplay. Given I have now played over 1500+ hours (I have only ever played one game before for over 100 hours) I can safely say I would not have played for that long if it did not offer depth.

 

[Hilight]

Lose the sarcasm. Depth is how interconnected systems influence each other and the universe as a whole, and then the impact it feeds back to you as a player. For example, in Dishonored, if you kill lots of enemies (city militia, in this case), more of them show up in later missions (and all city militia also become more wary overall, making stealth harder) and the plague also gets worse, resulting in more shamblers (basically plague zombies) and less side missions to in which assist the populace, which means less resources for you to utilize the further into the game you go. Essentially, how you play the game influences how much you need to rely on your skill as a player and how much the game mechanics work for/against you.

None of the mechanics in Elite actually connect with each other in a manner sufficient to provide any meaningful depth. The closest that FD have come to providing us with such a semblance was PP, and that fell far short of the mark when it didn't enforce a sense of, well, anything really. So what if Mahon gained control over the OP's "home" system? The economy didn't actually get any stronger. The fact that FD has to give players a reason to participate in PP in the form of weekly leaderboards and "unique" equipment drives home the point. If PP instead encouraged players to make their power bigger/stronger because in turn it made the services provided by said power better (and harsher, more all-encompassing penalties for deserting - say, for example, decreased merit retention and gain for a few cycles (making it harder for you to climb the ranks in whatever power you defected to)), then we'd actually be starting to get some REAL depth in the game.

As I explained in the first post, as Mahon expanded, the result was increased income for me in the form of trade bonuses in exploited systems. This encouraged me to help him expand in particular areas in order to extend his control to specific systems so I could further increase the economic effect upon my game-play. It was win-win feedback for the both of us. When I pledged to Mahon two of the systems I was trading in provided me trade bonuses. Currently alll the systems on my route provide bonuses except one. I don't know if that's enough feedback for you, but it certainly is for me

 

[Riedquat]

Lose the sarcasm. Depth is how interconnected systems influence each other and the universe as a whole, and then the impact it feeds back to you as a player. For example, in Dishonored, if you kill lots of enemies (city militia, in this case), more of them show up in later missions (and all city militia also become more wary overall, making stealth harder) and the plague also gets worse, resulting in more shamblers (basically plague zombies) and less side missions to in which assist the populace, which means less resources for you to utilize the further into the game you go. Essentially, how you play the game influences how much you need to rely on your skill as a player and how much the game mechanics work for/against you.

None of the mechanics in Elite actually connect with each other in a manner sufficient to provide any meaningful depth. The closest that FD have come to providing us with such a semblance was PP, and that fell far short of the mark when it didn't enforce a sense of, well, anything really. So what if Mahon gained control over the OP's "home" system? The economy didn't actually get any stronger. The fact that FD has to give players a reason to participate in PP in the form of weekly leaderboards and "unique" equipment drives home the point. If PP instead encouraged players to make their power bigger/stronger because in turn it made the services provided by said power better (and harsher, more all-encompassing penalties for deserting - say, for example, decreased merit retention and gain for a few cycles (making it harder for you to climb the ranks in whatever power you defected to)), then we'd actually be starting to get some REAL depth in the game.

Good post, I fully agree.


Like I have said before, its not about having more things to do, it is about having a reason or reasons to do them.

 

[Dr Wookie]

Lose the sarcasm. Depth is how interconnected systems influence each other and the universe as a whole, and then the impact it feeds back to you as a player. For example, in Dishonored, if you kill lots of enemies (city militia, in this case), more of them show up in later missions (and all city militia also become more wary overall, making stealth harder) and the plague also gets worse, resulting in more shamblers (basically plague zombies) and less side missions to in which assist the populace, which means less resources for you to utilize the further into the game you go. Essentially, how you play the game influences how much you need to rely on your skill as a player and how much the game mechanics work for/against you.

None of the mechanics in Elite actually connect with each other in a manner sufficient to provide any meaningful depth. The closest that FD have come to providing us with such a semblance was PP, and that fell far short of the mark when it didn't enforce a sense of, well, anything really. So what if Mahon gained control over the OP's "home" system? The economy didn't actually get any stronger. The fact that FD has to give players a reason to participate in PP in the form of weekly leaderboards and "unique" equipment drives home the point. If PP instead encouraged players to make their power bigger/stronger because in turn it made the services provided by said power better (and harsher, more all-encompassing penalties for deserting - say, for example, decreased merit retention and gain for a few cycles (making it harder for you to climb the ranks in whatever power you defected to)), then we'd actually be starting to get some REAL depth in the game.

Does a pebble make a bigger impact on an ocean or a puddle ?

Many of the systems do work on each other; however, individual players don't make much of a difference. The thousands of players in trade CGs can wipe out the stocks and drive up prices in dozens of nearby systems. The state that a system is in will affect the missions available, as well as the influence gains of each mission type; for example combat missions will have increased influence in lockdown, but no influence in a medical emergency. The Galactic story sometimes generates opposing CGs, and the player actions decide winning side, and therefore the evolution of the story.

By the way, improving the standings of your power DOES result in better benefits; some bonuses are higher if you are the 1st, 2nd or 3rd ranked power

 

[Jason S]

If you are not going to have a story led game then ED does the best it can so far without that. It will get better in time.

Interestingly when I last looked at steam playing stats ED was above the witcher 3. Now the witcher 3 is a great fabulous game, but once the story is done not so much...

 

[Hilight]

By the way, improving the standings of your power DOES result in better benefits; some bonuses are higher if you are the 1st, 2nd or 3rd ranked power

Yes, exactly. So long as Mahon stays in the top three my trade bonuses are increased by an additional 5% for each rise in rank, if I recall correctly

 

[sp0q]

(...)
By the way, improving the standings of your power DOES result in better benefits; some bonuses are higher if you are the 1st, 2nd or 3rd ranked power

Well, yeah. There is no point however :E it's not like you can use the additional benefits for anything else.

 

[Hilight]

Well, yeah. There is no point however :E it's not like you can use the additional benefits for anything else.

If a benefit doesn't have some fashion of economic consequence people complain that it doesn't result in credits... and now since it gives a benefit in credits you're saying there's no point to it?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

We have an existing discussion about the mile wide, inch deep meme.

Feel free to continue discussion over here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=204064