Horizons Game play is bad, but accidental game play is killing me!

[scorpionarachnid]

While we have a way to go to get the balance right, its the little things that destroys your confidence in the game and FDEV.

In a Hi-Rez site with police all around and one or two conda's I was getting some good kills , when I accidently hit a cop. Well that was that, ALL turned on me I was lock with disruption factor 15 and 20 police NCPs shooting at me for accidental fire with 400cr wanted. I almost escaped, (could of, if delay on shields was not there) when total power failure happened and another 10sec restart was necessary...too much! Dead. Lost a 1.5 weeks bounties and more, because the bounties are so low now. Its just not fun when silly things like this happens. Change it please! I'm playing less and less.

1) Getting a bounty for 400cr shouldn't be a death sentence.
2) When we need to escape let us escape.
3) Turning arc is too slow with new npc in vipers etc..
3) A lot of little ships not be able to lock you. (even big ships, that is old game play pre 2.1)
4) Total failure what's all that about? when you are on your last legs. ( FDev want you to fail?)

Why is the game play always against you? Why don't the police NPCs say "hey man watch it with your guns, next time you will get a wanted notice", or "you have helped us get 200k Cr bounties this is a final warning don't friendly fire on us." (reset after 3min)

While am at it :-Shield delay, heat sink delay, heat build up, they say its to even things out, but with the new 2.1 NPCs the whole situation need a re-look PLEASE FDEV.

 

[Toffa]

OP,

Trigger Discipline.

That is all.

Toffs
( '-')7

 

[metatheurgist]

Also, high wake.

The only time I shoot something I don't mean to nowadays is when I'm not paying attention. Like trying to watch a movie at the same time as RES hunting.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

"Trigger Discipline", "Git Gud", "Know Your Target" - these are all pretty standard, canned, unhelpful responses we see all the time.

Yes, the (In)Justice System of Elite Dangerous is harsh. If you know Star Trek Next Gen, take a watch of the episode titled Justice, where a similar legal system is used. "The punishment for all crimes is the same: death."
In truth, this is simple an Occupational Hazard. You want to jump in to the middle of NPC "police work", you're assuming the risks that go along with it. That includes being shot down by the same System Authority you may have backed up for countless hours because some hotdog pilot feels the need to run straight across your field of fire. It's just going to happen. The AI isn't smart enough to stay out of the way, so all we can do is know that this is going to happen, and be ready to deal with it.

This means keeping some distance between you and the local SA, so you've time to run. Spatial Awareness and Situational Awareness are your best tools here. Is it a solution? No. Is it really a problem? Probably not, it's just how things are. Frustrating? Disruptive? Sure, but it's an Occupational Hazard.

 

[Tikigod]

"Trigger Discipline", "Git Gud", "Know Your Target" - these are all pretty standard, canned, unhelpful responses we see all the time.

Yes, the (In)Justice System of Elite Dangerous is harsh. If you know Star Trek Next Gen, take a watch of the episode titled Justice, where a similar legal system is used. "The punishment for all crimes is the same: death."
In truth, this is simple an Occupational Hazard. You want to jump in to the middle of NPC "police work", you're assuming the risks that go along with it. That includes being shot down by the same System Authority you may have backed up for countless hours because some hotdog pilot feels the need to run straight across your field of fire. It's just going to happen. The AI isn't smart enough to stay out of the way, so all we can do is know that this is going to happen, and be ready to deal with it.

This means keeping some distance between you and the local SA, so you've time to run. Spatial Awareness and Situational Awareness are your best tools here. Is it a solution? No. Is it really a problem? Probably not, it's just how things are. Frustrating? Disruptive? Sure, but it's an Occupational Hazard.

Very fancy way of saying "Trigger Discipline and git gud".

The very kind of comments you acted all pompous over.


Personally the reaction seems fine to me, there are margins of error on mis-hitting depending on if the other ship is targeted or not which is something Frontier added in during the early months of release, so if it's not the active target and you clip it with a stray pulse hit or something than it's ignored, and you have to do a reasonable amount of damage to the ship that flew in the way for it to actually get registered as a hostile act.

If you've done enough damage to a un-targeted ship for it to be considered a hostile act then I got news for you.... it didn't just "briefly fly in front without warning and got hit once" unless that 'one hit' just happened to be from 3 plasma accelerators. If it got registered as a crime then you needed to have landed quite a few successive hits on them one after the after or from someone using high yield weapons that double up as planetary bombardment weapons on the weekend like a sugar high kid just mashing the trigger.

And at that point it really is just pilot ignorance.


(Edit: LMAO these forums censor out mis-hitting when typed correctly... talk about silly over the top 'pure values' filters)

 

[scorpionarachnid]

Thanks for a variety of replies.

However I don't see why the game mechanic's should add to your death there is no need or no justification. Yes mistakes happen BUT the game mechanics should let you have a reasonable chance of escape. That's all I'm asking.

1) Three pulse weapons one bullet each did it. Not trigger happy at all!
2) Jump to another system, have you tried it. If the system is in the wrong direction and have to pass through the asteroid field! By the time you redirect ( due to the map loading time too long) you are dead.
3) Ignorance...please!

What's the harm in making the disruption factor a quarter of present (or delete it, it was brought in because condas pilots complained small ships would run away. This is happening in 2.1), or delete the shield delay, and /or delete "total power failure" (What's this for anyway, to screw you over just in case you can make it).

Lets have a game that doesn't kill you for every minor mistake you make. its not fun...and fun is what its all about.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Very fancy way of saying "Trigger Discipline and git gud".

The very kind of comments you acted all pompous over.
[...]
If you've done enough damage to a un-targeted ship for it to be considered a hostile act then I got news for you.... it didn't just "briefly fly in front without warning and got hit once" unless that 'one hit' just happened to be from 3 plasma accelerators. If it got registered as a crime then you needed to have landed quite a few successive hits on them one after the after or from someone using high yield weapons that double up as planetary bombardment weapons on the weekend like a sugar high kid just mashing the trigger.

[...]

I'm sorry if you thought my response was pompous, it was not intended that way at all. As I read it, commenting back to someone "git gud" or "trigger discipline" sounds like "you suck", and isn't particularly helpful, even if they're just venting a bit. I'm merely trying to offer a different perspective rather than simply being dismissive. Of course my take on the language we call "English" and yours is likely different too. Chips vs. Crisps so we likely read the same things but take away different tones from them.

As for the second part... love it, but do not believe in "overkill", planetary bombardment weapons are perfectly valid Sidewinder-swatters.

 

[metatheurgist]

2) Jump to another system, have you tried it. If the system is in the wrong direction and have to pass through the asteroid field! By the time you redirect ( due to the map loading time too long) you are dead.

Select from the nav panel, not the galaxy map. And always have an escape plotted ahead of time if you're in the habit of shooting cops. And if you're in a RES stay out of mass lock, or learn to use the asteroids for cover.

Also, to answer point 4 in your OP, You do get a warning if you're friendly with the authorities.

 

[Wylie28]

Lol the "little things" are just user error.
1. Trigger discipline, this isn't COD
2. High wake
3. Its a slow turning ship that's the idea, if you have an issue with you it you are using the ship wrong. Its not a turn-fighter don't fly it like one.
4. Not explained well and sounds like to me. I bounty hunt in RES for a hour every day. I can target every ship and every ship can target me
5. This happened because your power supply got blown up and you haven't set your power priorities. Your fault.

Before you complain about my unsympathetic attitude remember your attitude in your OP. Maybe if you asked for help rather than blame the devs (and offering no solutions for their "issues") for your mistakes I might have attempted to offer more constructive help to you.

This game does kill you for every mistake you make. That's why I love it so much. Personally I think its too easy. Insurance needs to be removed, fines raised, and AI with an equivient ship should leave you nearly dead. That is what i want for a hardcore space sim experience.

 

[Shar]

While we have a way to go to get the balance right, its the little things that destroys your confidence in the game and FDEV.

In a Hi-Rez site with police all around and one or two conda's I was getting some good kills , when I accidently hit a cop. Well that was that, ALL turned on me I was lock with disruption factor 15 and 20 police NCPs shooting at me for accidental fire with 400cr wanted. I almost escaped, (could of, if delay on shields was not there) when total power failure happened and another 10sec restart was necessary...too much! Dead. Lost a 1.5 weeks bounties and more, because the bounties are so low now. Its just not fun when silly things like this happens. Change it please! I'm playing less and less.

1) Getting a bounty for 400cr shouldn't be a death sentence.
2) When we need to escape let us escape.
3) Turning arc is too slow with new npc in vipers etc..
3) A lot of little ships not be able to lock you. (even big ships, that is old game play pre 2.1)
4) Total failure what's all that about? when you are on your last legs. ( FDev want you to fail?)

Why is the game play always against you? Why don't the police NPCs say "hey man watch it with your guns, next time you will get a wanted notice", or "you have helped us get 200k Cr bounties this is a final warning don't friendly fire on us." (reset after 3min)

While am at it :-Shield delay, heat sink delay, heat build up, they say its to even things out, but with the new 2.1 NPCs the whole situation need a re-look PLEASE FDEV.

Thread title is interesting, if i genuinely felt like that about a game "and there are plenty i don't like" I certainly would not torture myself by playing it so i think you being disingenuous, I can appreciate you may be trying to help the game by giving your feedback i just wish you and players like you would more accurately title your threads and we can all take them a bit more seriously.
I hate the game "not quite your words i know" but i play it anyway is nonsensical and smacks of exaggeration and firing for effect, good news is it has none fortunately.

 

[Martind Forlon]

Thanks for a variety of replies.

However I don't see why the game mechanic's should add to your death there is no need or no justification. Yes mistakes happen BUT the game mechanics should let you have a reasonable chance of escape. That's all I'm asking.

Sorry OP, but this game is designed purposely to learn cmdrs avoiding minor mistakes which can later easily kill them in costly ships. ED is very unforgiving game and I myself like it. To be able enjoy it, you may need to learn few things and learn properly equip and control your ship. Thing is: die in ED space is meant as serious thing, if it happened, there was ship pilot mistake (or really serious bad luck). Pilot mistake can be not only poor flying but also inadequate situation awareness or overestimation of his skills.

Lets have a game that doesn't kill you for every minor mistake you make. its not fun...and fun is what its all about.

Fun is very personal matter, someone like some things someone not. There are things which I hope will be done better and/or further improved, but personally ED offers me allot fun (and I can take myself as best as average pilot). It is all about the same/similar: want I learn/adapt? or "it is not my cup of tea" and complaining starts. It is not meant as criticism please, players are different and have different tastes, its very hard (read impossible) to please everyone.

 

[Mighty Dangerous]

I just wanted to say the friendly fire mechanic is a good idea but the way the AI do it on purpose is not.
It spoils it because it's not true FF when the AI is scripted to take a hit.

 

[Wylie28]

AI are not scripted to fly into your fire... lol
Take responsibility for your actions, or in this case lack-there-of. Situationa awareness is key. I RES hunt every day and haven shot a fed since my viper days 200 hours of game-time ago.

 

[Mighty Dangerous]

yes they are.

 

[Stigbob]

Cut and paste from another one of these threads :

I enjoy the friendly fire mini-game I don't want to see it nerfed again (it's already been toned down 3 times AFAIK), snapping off accurate shots between the police ships is a challenge and therefore part of the fun. It was really unforgiving, now it's about perfect IMO.

Whenever I get it wrong (happens to us all) I evade escape switch systems for 10 minutes and then learn from how I got it wrong. This only works if you acknowledge it was your own fault and think about stacking the deck in your favour.

Things I've learned about avoiding friendly fire :

You need to know how to escape for when it goes wrong.
When there are friendlies around your default setting should always be finger off trigger, unless you are sure of your shot.
Drop back for increased visibility, this also increases shot to target time so be careful with non laser weapons.
Some ships have better visibility such as the DBS.
Cease fire if you have gimbals and he drops chaff, deselect target and fire as fixed.
Fixed weapons give you much more control.
Point blank range virtually eliminates the possibility of you committing friendly fire, but you'll get hit from behind.
There's no rush to shoot a target under attack from the police, take your time and pick your shots.
Maneuver way out to the side, up or down to put the police right out of your firing line before you shoot.
Look beyond your target is there a friendly closing from the opposite direction who might get hit.
Check your radar for ships out of view.
Seeker missiles are really slow this increases the chances of a friendly ship flying into your shot.

Three word summary : check your targets

 

[Wylie28]

yes they are.

I heard tinfoil hats are on free and scapegoats are on sale over at the SC forums go over there instead.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Friendly Fire threads seem to be trending this week.

I don't even remember last week's trending topic.. lol

No offence to the OP, but you sound like an inexperienced combat pilot.
•You are using the map, instead of the Nav panel. In combat. = Suicide
•No power management. = Suicide
•And flying a ship that clearly doesn't handle how you like. = Suicide
•And then you are shooting cops on top of that. = Suicide

It's all a rookie mistake, I've been there, and done that, and got the free T-shirt with every rebuy.
I didn't work out power management until I started flying a DBS.
I didn't now about high waking until a Vulture.

Learn to adapt to the game mechanics, rather than try to make the game adapt to you.

I still very occasionally clip a security ship and have to run like hell, it's not entirely avoidable.
In the heat and chaos in combat, especially when sparks are flying, you can miss that fast moving contact on the sensors coming in to your line of fire, just as you release a PA shot!

If you are flying anything particularly slow, fit turrets. They don't cause friendly fire issue anymore.

 

[Bacalao]

The replies to these threads are getting so dull and boring, but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree I suppose.
-
A thorn in the side of elite is that things that shouldn't be dangerous, are while things that should be dangerous, aren't.
-
e.g. Killing pirates in a RES, clip a cop...dead, often a high wake isn't even possible if there are lots of high ranked cops. VS Killing dozens of traders in a system, cop shows up, you jump to supercruise before he even finishes scanning you to start your murder over again...

 

[Agony_Aunt]

However I don't see why the game mechanic's should add to your death there is no need or no justification.

Huh? You shot at a policeman and you yourself are not a policeman.

Try doing that in real life somewhere like Texas and see what happens to you (PS: Not really suggesting you try shooting a policeman in real life!).

It helps if you are allied and don't hurt them much, but enough damage even to shields will always get you a bounty.

Seriously, its not just a meme, its words to live by: Situation awareness, watch your fire.

Once you get the hang of it, you should never be hitting the police.

 

[Stigbob]

The replies to these threads are getting so dull and boring, but the apple doesn't fall far from the tree I suppose.
-
A thorn in the side of elite is that things that shouldn't be dangerous, are while things that should be dangerous, aren't.
-
e.g. Killing pirates in a RES, clip a cop...dead, often a high wake isn't even possible if there are lots of high ranked cops. VS Killing dozens of traders in a system, cop shows up, you jump to supercruise before he even finishes scanning you to start your murder over again...

I've never struggled to escape, put an asteroid between yourself and the cops retract weapons and then boost straight out at 90 degree's from the asteroid ring so you escape the mass-lock area quickly.