Get your <ahem> together, Zorgon-Peterson!

[John Rhys]

I've been clicking my way through Coriolis since it's Update a few days ago. I've put together an FDL, that i'd use for Bounty Hunting, but i have to admit, i don't see any advantages over my Python fitted for FDL in terms of Numbers. I never flew an FDL, so maybe she's handling extremely good.

In terms of Numbers, my Python is pretty much on par, but costs about 15m less, my Python is faster (and yes, i engineered the FDL on Coriolis, too), the jump range is WAY better, the DPS is better and even the shields have more strength (in Numbers - i don't know how the mass numbers play into that, but my guess is, the FDL fairs better in this).

Considering the FDL should be a bounty hunting beast - how about Zorgon-Peterson giving a "Facelift" to the FDL? I mean, it's a "free" Universe, and considering, the FDL is in production for over 200 Years - i really don't think people would buy that thing. TBH, i find it...odd, that we have cars that are face lifted every year, to incorporate new technologies, and here we have spaceships, that are pretty much 200 Years old and are built with the same internals and stuff from back then? (And yes, i realize redesigning ship internals is something completely different, to face lifting a car - still, 200 Years is a damn long time, even in the Elite Universe/lore)

Or did i miss the point, and the FDL is an absolute stealth fighter, fitted with 6 Heat-Sinks and that's her only purpose...?

 

[TERMINATRIXXX]

I've been clicking my way through Coriolis since it's Update a few days ago. I've put together an FDL, that i'd use for Bounty Hunting, but i have to admit, i don't see any advantages over my Python fitted for FDL in terms of Numbers. I never flew an FDL, so maybe she's handling extremely good.

In terms of Numbers, my Python is pretty much on par, but costs about 15m less, my Python is faster (and yes, i engineered the FDL on Coriolis, too), the jump range is WAY better, the DPS is better and even the shields have more strength (in Numbers - i don't know how the mass numbers play into that, but my guess is, the FDL fairs better in this).

Considering the FDL should be a bounty hunting beast - how about Zorgon-Peterson giving a "Facelift" to the FDL? I mean, it's a "free" Universe, and considering, the FDL is in production for over 200 Years - i really don't think people would buy that thing. TBH, i find it...odd, that we have cars that are face lifted every year, to incorporate new technologies, and here we have spaceships, that are pretty much 200 Years old and are built with the same internals and stuff from back then? (And yes, i realize redesigning ship internals is something completely different, to face lifting a car - still, 200 Years is a damn long time, even in the Elite Universe/lore)

Or did i miss the point, and the FDL is an absolute stealth fighter, fitted with 6 Heat-Sinks and that's her only purpose...?

I fall in love with imperial shipdesign, somehow a breakthrough......compared to all the other ships, but the FDL looks quite nice. I believe there are a bunch of new ships already on its way.

 

[Broon]

I have been trying to justify buying an FDL as well and I just can't do it.

I flew one pre-engineers and it didn't impress me. I would hate to buy one now, take the time to get it all gussied up with A-rates and mods and such, only to mothball it or sell it off.

And you are right, the damn thing is ugly IMO.

 

[CMDR Labladorit]

I see the Fer-de-Lance as more of a "fun" thing to fly, rather than a "beast". It is obvious by now that in a head-to-head battle where only the shield power and firepower matters, Python will always win against the Fer-de-Lance.

I mean seriously, I kinda do agree with you, the Python is better than the Fer-de-Lance in many aspects (it's Forum's favorite after all) but the reason why I like the Fer-de-Lance is its maneuverability and speed. You see, I am not a very good pilot, so I constantly need to run away from battles in case I need to, and the Fer-de-Lance does that really well I think (5A Dirty Drives really help). Also, the Fer-de-Lance is also good for shield tanking since it has 6 utility points and you can fit them all with shield boosters.

Long story short, if one likes the Fer-de-Lance (like me), they probably do it because they like the Fer-de-Lance itself. The concept of it. The looks of it. The fun of it. However, if you are looking for a multi-purpose beast that can do or defeat anything, I suggest you stick with the Python.

For me however, the Fer-de-Lance is a joy to fly, now that I have fitted mine with a ridiculous loadout. It's fun for me after all.

 

[L.S Algir]

According to popular knowledge ( as none of my ships are engineered yet) , FDL is far nimbler than Python.

Well let see, i've got both vanilla , and they are very different ; hull, dps and range goes for Python , agility , speed and shields go for FDL . And the drop of DPS is not that much.

I may guess that if I pimp both of them the figures would simply follow. Dps should not change and agility neither.
On the other hand , some say that the boost of agility given by drive tuning on the Python, while still below a tuned FDL, is sufficient for it to match a vanilla FDL agility. As a consequence , as a vanilla FDL is agile enough to be a nice hunter , then the Python becomes a nice hunter , plus more dps and more range and hull....

However , figures aren't always the things you want to rely on; it seems that in the end a tuned FDL is so agile that the drop of dps compared to a Python is far balanced by its capacity to remain behind target. More over , the number of shield booster and/or utilities that can be fitted , gives it a better capacity to bring both shield boosting and other utility stuff alltogether.

I wonder one thing though : are you sure your combat fitted Python costs less than a FDL ? Because the main drawback of a Ptyhon compared to a FDL is the price.....

Well sorry for my approximative english. Hope this helps.

 

[Thebadmf]

Care to link? I have both ships and adore the Python but, its got far weaker raw shield power, and flies like an oil tanker compared to the FdL.

 

[Sterling MH]

TheYamkis agrees with you.

Mind you, if combat buffs make the FDL better than the vulture (because of better weapons) and better than the Python (equivalent size, but a multi-role not combat), as I hear, it may be about right. Tinkering will just cheese some people off. Big changes are worth doing, tweaks not so much.

But a big change could well be something small that opens up other gameplay.

E.g. if the FDL could take a bigger FSD or (because it has thin hulls) was lighter, it could jump further than military machines (who don't have to jump further than the shortest max jump range of the ships, because they have to stay in formation). Or making it able to take luxury cabins (Beluga/Orca are then nerfed a bit because they no longer are unique in that regard. IMO adding 10-25% to the payment for passenger runs because these two have a fancy observation deck/resturaunt/bar/dancehall would make them a good buy for passenger missions) would be nominally small changes, but open up a different dynamic.

Maybe Traders would be specialised because they have a few internal slots (so mostly cargo to the gills) so they can't be flexible with their internal modules, and Fighters would be specialised because they have a few internal slots (so mostly combat SCBs and combat scanners) so they can't be fexible with their internal modules.

And multi-role (which FDL is because it's neither of the others) have more slots so that they can shore up their lack of optimisation by adding compensatory modules to sort of fill the role of either of the others.

This may need some tweaking of combat ships to make the hold capacity small and the trader capacity high, yet still allow both to carry the shields appropriate to their weight, and fiddling of the middle-class of multi-role so that they can't carry as much cargo as a trader and still can't carry enough bells to bring them quite to the fighter class in combat. The latter though, can be sorted by turn rate disadvantages and weapon count and weight.

And if the Cobra Mk4 were more combat oriented, more like a cobra-shaped FDL on the cheap, there's a "combat heavy multirole" ship to progress to before getting the FDL. Just a thought.

Hauler is the worst, though. No point picking it, pick the Adder.

 

[John Rhys]

I have been trying to justify buying an FDL as well and I just can't do it.

I flew one pre-engineers and it didn't impress me. I would hate to buy one now, take the time to get it all gussied up with A-rates and mods and such, only to mothball it or sell it off.

And you are right, the damn thing is ugly IMO.

Well - i actually think she looks not that bad. In terms of cars, a face lift is also often "only" done with technical upgrades.

I see the Fer-de-Lance as more of a "fun" thing to fly, rather than a "beast". It is obvious by now that in a head-to-head battle where only the shield power and firepower matters, Python will always win against the Fer-de-Lance.

I mean seriously, I kinda do agree with you, the Python is better than the Fer-de-Lance in many aspects (it's Forum's favorite after all) but the reason why I like the Fer-de-Lance is its maneuverability and speed. You see, I am not a very good pilot, so I constantly need to run away from battles in case I need to, and the Fer-de-Lance does that really well I think (5A Dirty Drives really help). Also, the Fer-de-Lance is also good for shield tanking since it has 6 utility points and you can fit them all with shield boosters.

Long story short, if one likes the Fer-de-Lance (like me), they probably do it because they like the Fer-de-Lance itself. The concept of it. The looks of it. The fun of it. However, if you are looking for a multi-purpose beast that can do or defeat anything, I suggest you stick with the Python.

For me however, the Fer-de-Lance is a joy to fly, now that I have fitted mine with a ridiculous loadout. It's fun for me after all.

I get that, and i can see that if someone likes the looks of the FDL, there is nothing wrong with buying one. In a head-to-head battle, with equally fitted ships, my guess is that it really depends on the Pilot - they are pretty even in terms of shields and firepower, if you try to balance the loadout. But - 6A Dirty Drives on the Python makes it faster, than the FDL (as long as you don't have any Cargo of course ), you can fit 4 shield boosters no problem and with those G6 Shields, they are even - however, you can put 2x 6A Shield Cell Banks in the Python.

But i guess, rationalizing something like this is pointless It really does come down to looks, i guess...

Care to link? I have both ships and adore the Python but, its got far weaker raw shield power, and flies like an oil tanker compared to the FdL.

I closed the tab and started to write this post, sorry, but i will link it this evening (Euro-Time).

Yeah, my guess was, that the FDL is far more nimble, than the Python, but i have to say, i've got 6A Thrusters with 4A dirty drive tuning on my python and i can fly circles around quite a lot of ships - as i said, i haven't flown the FDL, so i can only go by the numbers...

 

[Apos]

Yes, the FDL needs buffs again.

Because the last ones went so swimmingly!

 

[goemon]

don't judge a ship by numbers only.

don't judge a ship without flying it.

and if you judge it by numbers, get more subtile ones - for exampel acceleration, decelleration, and turn times: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Roll-and-Acceleration-for-(nearly)-Everyship

i own both ships - python is cosy, FDL is glorious.

still both ships are rather slow against a courier, and both ships are flying bricks compared to an eagle, and both ships don't have the heatcapacity of an DBE. I'd say both ship-manufactures have still a way to go to reach the quality of those really good ships with FDL AND python.

But - 6A Dirty Drives on the Python makes it faster, than the FDL .

... if the FDL has no dirty drives ... the base speed difference of ships isn't really touched by enginnering. my python does 467 m/s boost speed, my FDL 551 m/s...

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I would like to hear from the "really gud" FDL pilots why they love it so much.

I skipped over it on my way to get the big three (Anaconda, Cutter, Corvette). I have an FDL now as part of my collection. I took it out (A-rated) for a test flight and was thoroughly underwhelmed. If I want the pain of it's limited jump range, I'll stick with my Corvette (fully engineered).

I fully admit that I'm probably just missing something about the way it flies, but I just don't like it. It's currently sitting in my home port, stripped of components and collecting dust. If nothing else, I can use it to "store" 4 packhound launchers once I've got access to them in a few weeks.

 

[zimms]

Are you comparing engineered ships with a stock FDL? I'm really surprised how anybody could think the FDL isn't great in combat.

Or are you looking for a cargo hauler?

 

[bootsam]

I have one built for PvE combat and whilst its a great ship, I find the window strut so annoying that I usually avoid using it. It always seems to be in the way of the yellow circle and countdown timer so that I often miss the 0.07 change to 70% and overshoot. The window strut is a design flaw. I may sell it and buy a ship I dislike but has better canopy. The Dreaded Python.

Plus it has 1 too few internal bays. Its quick and nimble but its just too annoying that canopy for me.

 

[xondk]

I've been clicking my way through Coriolis since it's Update a few days ago. I've put together an FDL, that i'd use for Bounty Hunting, but i have to admit, i don't see any advantages over my Python fitted for FDL in terms of Numbers. I never flew an FDL, so maybe she's handling extremely good.

In terms of Numbers, my Python is pretty much on par, but costs about 15m less, my Python is faster (and yes, i engineered the FDL on Coriolis, too), the jump range is WAY better, the DPS is better and even the shields have more strength (in Numbers - i don't know how the mass numbers play into that, but my guess is, the FDL fairs better in this).

Considering the FDL should be a bounty hunting beast - how about Zorgon-Peterson giving a "Facelift" to the FDL? I mean, it's a "free" Universe, and considering, the FDL is in production for over 200 Years - i really don't think people would buy that thing. TBH, i find it...odd, that we have cars that are face lifted every year, to incorporate new technologies, and here we have spaceships, that are pretty much 200 Years old and are built with the same internals and stuff from back then? (And yes, i realize redesigning ship internals is something completely different, to face lifting a car - still, 200 Years is a damn long time, even in the Elite Universe/lore)

Or did i miss the point, and the FDL is an absolute stealth fighter, fitted with 6 Heat-Sinks and that's her only purpose...?

1: your python does not cost less if the outfit is similar, python is quite a bit more expensive to outfit.
Basic combat Python
Basic combat FDL

And this is just getting the components up.
FDL has already been upgraded and is an upgrade combat wise compared to the python, the python itself has been nerfed, and FDL is a significant combat improvement over it, does that mean python can't do combat? of course not, but it also most certainly means that the FDL is cheaper, it is fast, it is agile, is has more powerful shields
Considering how it was upgraded with more powerful powerplant a bit back, it is already one of the best fighting ships, especially due to agility, FDL might overall get lower dps then python due to its weapon setup, but it can stay on target much much much longer.

2: FDL _IS_ a bounty hunting beast, if you can't take advantage of the advantages it has over python, that is another thing, and this isn't a jab against you, but simply a statement, but it does have significant advantages. Shield and such being the main.
And no, it isn't 'made' for stealth as such, it can, but it isn't made for it, you could also put shield boosters on, and a powerful shield, and take advantage of it having better shield then all but the biggest ships like that, so yeah...

FDL is fine....the insane amount of people flying it alone should be saying as much.

3: if anything python needs agility to be restored to what it was pre nerf. pitch rate especially.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

FDL has already been upgraded and is an upgrade combat wise compared to the python, the python itself has been nerfed,

Python has been nerfed.

We're keeping score?

In that case the FDL has been beat about the head with a lead pipe patch after patch until thoroughly concussed and should have been put on the sidelines a long time ago.

Just because it's been nerfed doesn't mean they fixed everything and it never needs to be touched again. Obvious example for comparison being the exact ship everyone is comparing it to.

FDL is fine....the insane amount of people flying it alone should be saying as much.

Insane amount of people compared to what? The Python?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/324707-Forum-s-favourite-ship-POLL


Naaaah nah nah nah nah.... Surely that was a joke.... It's too early in the morning for you to be intoxicated.

 

[fruitbat]

I've been clicking my way through Coriolis since it's Update a few days ago. I've put together an FDL, that i'd use for Bounty Hunting, but i have to admit, i don't see any advantages over my Python fitted for FDL in terms of Numbers. I never flew an FDL, so maybe she's handling extremely good.

In terms of Numbers, my Python is pretty much on par, but costs about 15m less, my Python is faster (and yes, i engineered the FDL on Coriolis, too), the jump range is WAY better, the DPS is better and even the shields have more strength (in Numbers - i don't know how the mass numbers play into that, but my guess is, the FDL fairs better in this).

Considering the FDL should be a bounty hunting beast - how about Zorgon-Peterson giving a "Facelift" to the FDL? I mean, it's a "free" Universe, and considering, the FDL is in production for over 200 Years - i really don't think people would buy that thing. TBH, i find it...odd, that we have cars that are face lifted every year, to incorporate new technologies, and here we have spaceships, that are pretty much 200 Years old and are built with the same internals and stuff from back then? (And yes, i realize redesigning ship internals is something completely different, to face lifting a car - still, 200 Years is a damn long time, even in the Elite Universe/lore)

Or did i miss the point, and the FDL is an absolute stealth fighter, fitted with 6 Heat-Sinks and that's her only purpose...?

Lol, I like my Python, and in PvE its a beast engineered being able to kill anything with ease (but then what isn't engineered vs the AI), but it cant come close to an equally engineered FDL for pure killing power and ttk. Of course the Python can do lots of other stuff as well, but in a Haz res, CNB, CZ or assassination missions the FDL is simply miles ahead.

 

[Martian Successor]

The Fer de Lance is a precision instrument, she responds exceptionally well to skillful piloting. If you're finding her sluggish or unresponsive then I'm afraid you're doing it wrong and need more flight time with her.

She's not a jack of all trades like the Python. Her main purpose is combat superiority and she is the best at what she does - the FDL can go toe to toe with any other combat fitted ship in the game but she won't give you a free ride to victory just because you're occupying the pilot's chair and using up oxygen.

Think of her as the Ferrari of ED. Although perfectly livable in (luxurious even) this is not a ship you keep around just to go grocery shopping. The mere whisper and rumble of her engines demand release.

She'll give you the best but only if you can find the best in yourself. Otherwise she will not respect you.

 

[John Rhys]

Alright, alright, i see my error in judgement. I also have to admit, i didn't compare them side by side - i compared my Python from my head with the quick thrown together FDL. After doing that properly, yes, the FDL is considerably faster, than the Python, Shield Capacity can be WAY more. Mea culpa! :x

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Guys seriously? So much misinformation at the start of this thread. Just look at how many PvP pilots fly Pythons compared to those that fly FDLs. It's not even a close competition, the FDL takes it and then some.

FDL will win against a Python if players/outfitting are equal as it will totally dictate the fight which both better turn rate and speed.. With Engineers FDL is one of the best ships in the game and can hold it's own against any other ship and usually win. It used to suffer from power issues but now a very nice class 6 powerplant and engineer mods means you can run heavy weapons, prismatic shields, boosters and cell banks without breaking too much of a sweat.
Python may look better on paper but the FDL is unquestionably the better combat ship.

Now if you are doing anything that isn't combat then sure, Python is better.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I hear a lot of people say the FdL is the choice ship for Bounty Hunting. I disagree.
It is a fantastic ship - for Assassination missions.
For long-term endurance combat however, I find the Python superior. With more internals, the python can carry more armor, more module protection modules, and hold together even longer.
But for small skirmish or one-on-one battles, the FdL with its better maneuverability and single huge hardpoint, delivers more firepower in less time, making it ideal for Assassination missions.