Ships go home Asp Scout, you're DRUNK!

GrumpyMinerSmuggles · May 2, 2016

so I just have been flying in an Asp Scout. And I LOVE it. Thought I'd first start with that. She really is quite fun in supercruise and for what it is, a joy to go exploring. She's so agile if I forget and mess up, she tends to save me when I go careening into a sun's corona.

BUT

dafuq is the point of her? I mean, for exploration and Horizons, she's actually downright pointless right now on paper isn't she?
http://coriolis.io/compare/point of the Asp Scout?!?

just some musings from someone who likes practicality, but not at the expense of "oooh pretty" and the loss of one's soul to "meta." lol

Zeeman · May 2, 2016

To me, the Asp Scout should have had size 5 thrusters, and enjoyed a speed hike over the Asp X - say... ~380 boost, and ~270 top speed no boost.

ie - somewhere between a Asp X and Cobra MKIII, and keep everything else the same. It would have given it a significant advantage for certain roles (smuggling, for example, or just plain getting away).

The extra mass of the thrusters would hit jump range a bit, but it's not all that special anyway, may as will give it something it it does better than the Asp X.

Though, annoying, FD have chosen to mess around randomly with sliders rather than using mass and thruster class to work out speeds, as even with a 5A thruster, in coriolis.io, the Asp S still comes out slower than an Asp X. An Asp X with 4A thrusters pretty much has identical speeds an an Asp S with 4A thrusters (minus, maybe 3), which, for a hull that is almost double the mass, it just makes no damn sense at all...

Dear FD, let's see some consistency...

Z...

Godsailsaqueen · May 2, 2016

She's in the same boat as the DBE now : the 5 compartments are restrictive for long exploration runs, provided you care about landing. You need to forget the auto-field maintenance unit.

Still, as you pointed out, her maneuverability is the best you will ever get from an explorer type ship. Scanning becomes far less of a hassle.

Moreover, I'm somewhat baffled by the uselessness of an AFMU which can't repair hull or powerplant... You're still limited to a certain number of mistakes before going back, which is frustrating in an anaconda equipped with everything... I like the straightforward attitude of the asp scout, it does not lie. fill your fuel tank at your latest station, and just go quickly where you need to be.

Ceekay · May 2, 2016

I suspect the Asp S, Cobra 4 and a few others may benefit greatly from being "Engineered", the Asp S apart from its average speed and firepower has excellent internals, superb agility and ample power, fit some enhanced thrusters, weapons and possibly shields and you've got a serious fighter with excellent range.

Boost the Cobra 4's speed by 20 - 25% and you'd have a ship that can fill just about any role for cheap, it'd be interesting to let the engineers loose on the Cobra 4 to see what they can do

Zeta Legion · May 2, 2016

Ceekay said:
I suspect the Asp S, Cobra 4 and a few others may benefit greatly from being "Engineered", the Asp S apart from its average speed and firepower has excellent internals, superb agility and ample power, fit some enhanced thrusters, weapons and possibly shields and you've got a serious fighter with excellent range.

Boost the Cobra 4's speed by 20 - 25% and you'd have a ship that can fill just about any role for cheap, it'd be interesting to let the engineers loose on the Cobra 4 to see what they can do

I don't know why people expect engineers to save broken and pointless ships. The AspS doesn't exist in a vacuum; anything you could conceivably do to it, you can do to any other ship.

When FDev created the AspS they basically just re-created the DBS, but with inferior speed and a worse heat profile but a better PD. It's another small ship with over/under 2x C1 and 2x C2, a lack of internal space, and good agility, only they jacked up the price to just under the Vulture and expected people to think that made it more than it is. The AspS is a fraud that serves no legitimate purpose when you can get the same for cheaper, or flat-out superior for a little bit more. I mean really, it's within a couple mil of the Vulture and the only advantage it has over it is jump range. Shameful.

Personally I'd just go with a DBS. At least it looks like a gunship instead of a pancake.

Ceekay · May 2, 2016

Zeta Legion said:
Personally I'd just go with a DBS. At least it looks like a gunship instead of a pancake.

LOL! It looks nothing like the Flying Pancake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_V-173

Zeta Legion · May 2, 2016

Ceekay said:
LOL! It looks nothing like the Flying Pancake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_V-173

It does too and don't you deny it!

avow555 · May 2, 2016

I quite like the Asp S but they kinda made it a bit pointless.

Weapons; 2 small 2 med, boring! 4 med would be an interesting niche.
Speed; slower than the Explorer despite being hugely lighter, that's just mystifying.
Compartments; 1 short I would say.
Paint jobs; none.

A scout ship that doesn't really scout or excel at anything, just another quite inadequate ship really.
They gotta try give some ships a specialisation, extra sensor range on scout ships perhaps.

JesusOnEez · May 3, 2016

In my never-ending quest to own all ships (kitted out, none of them stripped to buy the next ship) I've just purchased the Asp Scout with the view to take it to all the local sight-seeing areas (Pleiades, Witchhead, Orion, Barnard's, California). I haven't taken her for a spin yet, and am looking forward to seeing what she can do. Last time I went out exploring was in the DBE and I loved that.

Armholeeio · May 3, 2016

I own a asp s for a CZ in my player factions AO as I was too lazy to travel and find a vulture. It's ok to throw around but it's too slow. I have found I'm constantly having to play with pips as my target zooms off and leaves me behind or I'm trying to get out of dodge to pop a scb before the shields drop but it's too slow to do it effectively. I won't be keeping it as once I have collected enough to ships to trigger a achievement she's being sold for something more effective

GrumpyMinerSmuggles · May 5, 2016

Yeah...
I mean for smuggling, my t-6 runs 395 boost laden with 50+ tons of weapons. It's about the same mass with the same thrusters.

My Asp E, she'll hit 385 laden with over 28ly jump range and 50+ tons of weapons AND a scoop that's worth it.

I was hoping for a fast dedicated smuggler from at least the keelback or the Asp scout. Instead I went 0-2.

Heck with the new engineer updates and better class 3 thusters, my little Adder may be coming out of retirement!

Yeah, it's a fun ship to fly, ish. I enjoy the look. But it's pointless when I get back...

jabberwalkie · May 5, 2016

GrumpyMinerSmuggles said:
Yeah...
I mean for smuggling, my t-6 runs 395 boost laden with 50+ tons of weapons. It's about the same mass with the same thrusters.

My Asp E, she'll hit 385 laden with over 28ly jump range and 50+ tons of weapons AND a scoop that's worth it.

Believe it or not, me and a couple of others complained loudly and regularly in the last beta about the speed difference between the Asp Scout and the T6. We even went as far as doing various builds and pointing out mass numbers and the speed. There is nothing in the current version of the released game (not-beta because I don't know about the thrusters from the Engineers yet) that I know of that makes the Asp Scout as fast as ships with the same class of thrusters or weight. We even filed one or two bug reports on it.

IMO the Asp Scout should have been the successor to the DBS. Instead what we got is another ship that isn't a successor, but another side-grade of sorts. It's slower, has the same weapons options (2S and 2M), etc. The only thing that really makes it stand out right now is its armor. The weapons capacitor is debatable, even though that is often cited as another reason why it is in some way superior. I played with the Asp Scout pretty extensively in the last beta, and decided just to keep my DBS in the main game.

Both the Asp Scout and the Keelback were write-offs as soon as it was pretty clear that they were going to be ships that FD wasn't going to change right now. The Keelback is really a head scratcher for me because without the deployable fighter (which I'm not even sure could save it anyways) is basically a sitting duck combat wise IMO. At least the Asp Scout has enough maneuverability and armor to stand a chance because you aren't going to out running most ships.

Farran · May 7, 2016

Funny thing, I just posted a thread with basically the same idea not long ago. I was wondering if the Asp Scout filled some particular niche, but I did not get much other than it can outmaneuver a Vulture while being less flimsy than an Eagle (which I have yet to see demonstrated, or demonstrate myself, because its combat outfitting options are unimpressive).

I agree that it is really fun to fly, and I have one laying around. I had hoped that maybe it did really well on planets (seeing as it came out with Horizons) and did some messing around, but I notice no particular advantage to fly it for planet runs over any other ship, even testing in some pretty unusual circumstances like Achenar 3 (6.73G or thereabouts). In fact, I started to prefer my Type-6 again for that because it is much smaller, and thus it is easier to find a landing place in rough terrain, but it still has the maneuvering thruster power to handle how I want. It also carries 3-4 times as much cargo... with an exploration outfit.

Ultimately, the solution is to just fly it if you want to fly it and it does what you want. I am still kind of disappointed in the Asp Scout. I actually like its appearance better than the Asp Explorer, and its handling is superb, but there is just nothing to set it apart other than that. It is dreadfully irritating because just one more compartment, even a small one, would make it tremendously more versatile, but really it deserves a lot more than that. Honestly, I am a little baffled that it "uses most of the same airframe as the Asp Explorer" and is basically the same size but has so much less space somehow.

I might fuss with it again and see if I can do anything for it, and if that turns up something interesting, I will be sure to pass it along.

Godsailsaqueen · May 7, 2016

Farran said:
I agree that it is really fun to fly, and I have one laying around. I had hoped that maybe it did really well on planets (seeing as it came out with Horizons) and did some messing around, but I notice no particular advantage to fly it for planet runs over any other ship

And what about planetary attack missions? I can see the benefits on paper : good canopy and very good lower view. Good armour. maneuverable. Outpost defence systems are damn accurate even against small ships, so the sheer size of the hull becomes less of a weakness. Eventually, you don't need speed against fixed targets...

Am I right?

Farran · May 9, 2016

Godsailsaqueen said:
And what about planetary attack missions? I can see the benefits on paper : good canopy and very good lower view. Good armour. maneuverable. Outpost defence systems are damn accurate even against small ships, so the sheer size of the hull becomes less of a weakness. Eventually, you don't need speed against fixed targets...

Am I right?

That is definitely something that I can try. In settlement assaults, speed is not terribly important. Better yet, the two medium hardpoints would be great for missiles and you can put pretty much anything else you might want on the small hardpoints. I played with a Coriolis build a little and it has enough power for two small gimbaled beam lasers, if that is your thing.

That said, it does not seem like it would be especially adept compared to, for example, an Imperial Courier, which also has two medium hardpoints you could use for missiles and is very agile, but has speed and better shields on top of that (if weaker armor). Also, being much smaller, it is harder to hit and easier to find a landing place. But it cannot carry as much cargo, I guess? I could probably argue the same for pretty much any ship which has two medium and two small hardpoints, too, although I guess the Asp Scout will beat most of them in shields, armor, and maneuverability.

I would suggest capital ship assaults, since that is a similar task, but the trouble is that speed is important and very strong shields are critical (especially if you have nobody to watch your back for you), so my expectations are not high. If missiles are as deadly in 2.1 as reputed, then the lack of utility mounts may also hurt it quite a bit.

Godsailsaqueen · May 9, 2016

Farran said:
That said, it does not seem like it would be especially adept compared to, for example, an Imperial Courier, which also has two medium hardpoints you could use for missiles and is very agile, but has speed and better shields on top of that (if weaker armor).

I'm with you, still the courier has no armor whatsoever. So it is not practical at all during land attacks : sometimes, you have the wrong angle of attack and you're not hidden from any turret, they're all on you. If you make a mistake, shields drop and you're just gonna wait for 2 minutes for your shields to fully recharge - if you're not dead from 2 or 3 shots! even though, speed helps a bit here, in order to run away. You can bring SCB, but they're limited in number, and limiting in heat management. And you lose a lot of jump range with the SRV in the process.

On the opposite, the scout can have flexible bi weave shields, they drop a bit quickly but you just go 3km away, youturn 180°they're back for the next bombing run. And you're not dead without shields, quite the contrary.