Griefing, Human nature and the Zombie Apocalypse

TOM USMC

TOM USMC
As a student of Psychology and human nature I am hoping this will help some people understand the world that we live in and they can adjust their behavior and thus effecting a better chance at a fighting chance.

I have seen a number of posts regarding people feeling cheated by other human players preying on them at their most vulnerable moments. So, Let me tell you a story about a man named Jed. A poor country boy, barely kept his family fed. Then one day while huntin' for some food, up from the ground came a bubbling goo, Black Gold, Texas Tea, Oil that is... Well you know what I'm sayin' Ok, maybe not I digress.

MMO's are a wonderful thing. It essentially creates another universe in which you can do and be anything within the parameters of the game and only constrained by whatever artificial punishments/consequences the designer has put in place. I think most people just port their normal behavior framework into their character, but other role play people that are the opposite of their real life persona. But people are operating on a deeper level than "I choose to act like a rogue HA, HA!" [arrrr]

Human Nature:

I'm going to simplify this a little, but only a little. Humans actions (not all actions, but the ones governing griefing fall into this) are governed by essential three tiers of checks and balances empathy, desperation, and willpower.


  • Empathy- This enables a person to "feel" what someone else is experiencing to truly put themselves in the other person's shoes and act accordingly. If a person has no empathy and doesn't care about how another person may "feel", the other two tiers won't even factor into the process. They are a true lose cannon. Friend one minute and enemy the next. This person will leave a wake of destruction based on capricious decisions. We all have empathy, right? No, we don't. If we all had perfect empathy we would not need laws or police. We each have our own level of this trait and it will weigh accordingly in most of the decisions we make involving others. Empathy can be influenced or pushed aside by the next tier.



  • Desperation- This is a persons perceived "need" to have something or to protect what he/she already has. Most people think of necessities that drive desperation, like hunger/thirst/shelter from the elements, but it can stretch out into things like love, status, time and effort. If you don't believe me just check how many posts there are regarding a person's perceived waste of time doing something that did not net them the outcome they wanted. Desperation has the ability to push aside empathy and diminish or eliminate it as a factor in the decision making process. There is one last check however.


  • Willpower- This is a person's intestinal fortitude and ability to step outside of himself or herself, and overcome any base drive to do one thing or the other. Strong willpower will allow a person to over come the influence of desperation or self-servience. It is a check on immediate gratification. It is also the last stop on the behavior train.

Awww snap. where is this going? Hang on. Next Stop:

The Zombie Apocalypse:

If you haven't viewed any zombie apocalypse shows/movies, I recommend The Walking Dead (first few seasons anyway) as they usually have some insight into human failings. So, what is the biggest threat in the zombie apocalypse? Jesus man, Zombies! Right?

No. Not by a long shot. Zombies are a static threat, just like the elements and scarcity (lack of food, water and supplies). They will always do what zombies do (if you let them or unfortunate enough to get caught by them) they will eat braaaaains. Other humans are infinitely more dangerous. A zombie won't befriend you, gain your trust, and then slit your throat while you are asleep. A human will.

I can understand getting frustrated for getting caught with your pants down, but to think that people will do or act "appropriate" in what is essentially a lawless environment is naivete of epic proportions. So should your find yourself with a real live human in the farthest corner of the universe or in the zombie apocalypse, you would do well to never turn your back and have a finger on the boost or trigger. Assume the worst and be thankful when it doesn't happen.

I'll close this happy moment with one of my all time favorite philosophers Sir Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679) and a quote from "The Leviathan" with regard to humans in the natural world:

"In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain, and consequently, not culture of the earth, no navigation, nor the use of commodities that may be imported by sea, no commodious building, no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force, no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short"

Plan accordingly CMDRs.
Semper Fi
 

Godnamedthor

Godnamedthor
TOM USMC said:
So, what is the biggest threat in the zombie apocalypse? Jesus man, Zombies! Right?
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It already has begun!!!

1453937613925
 

mung0

mung0
@OP All rings pretty true but I don't think you've even touched the core of why griefers grief or gankers gank. Yep empathy is certainly leapt straight past, but the triggers don't even remotely fall into any of those 'desperation' categories.

There's no 'kill or be killed' motivator in your classic unprovoked gank, as they only attack coming from a position of superabundance of strength. Similarly with griefers, they tend to preferably come from angles where they can grief without possible comeback, or if possible add salt in the wounds by arranging situations that invite retribution by the victim, which in turn piles on even more grief*.

There's nothing they have need to 'protect' except for their time/effort, in that they came to gank or grief, so need to make good on their time by fulfilling the task. But that in of itself is after the fact of choosing to go ganking or griefing, so still doesn't explain the motivation.

So as you're a psychology boffin cmdr, I'm interested to hear, what's driving them? Any further insight?

* For a good example of this see grand theft auto online, where the developers (rather misguidedly) put in a punishment system to but badly behaved players into a segregated 'dunce' pool, but what happened overnight is griefers found ways to exploit the mechanic - they'd attack other random players and create situations whereby the victim inadvertently meets the 'bad behaviour' conditions - end result: victim gets thrown into the dunce pool, griefer remains untouched.
 

SCSkunk

SCSkunk
Nice post, OP. Entertaining, a view on human nature, and thankfully something to read other than the usual... ... ...I don't have a nice word to use here, so I'll just leave it blank. Anyway, +1 to you, sir, for the refreshing "now for something completely different."
 

EponymousCowherd

EponymousCowherd
mung0 said:
@OP All rings pretty true but I don't think you've even touched the core of why griefers grief or gankers gank. Yep empathy is certainly leapt straight past, but the triggers don't even remotely fall into any of those 'desperation' categories.

There's no 'kill or be killed' motivator in your classic unprovoked gank, as they only attack coming from a position of superabundance of strength. Similarly with griefers, they tend to preferably come from angles where they can grief without possible comeback, or if possible add salt in the wounds by arranging situations that invite retribution by the victim, which in turn piles on even more grief*.

There's nothing they have need to 'protect' except for their time/effort, in that they came to gank or grief, so need to make good on their time by fulfilling the task. But that in of itself is after the fact of choosing to go ganking or griefing, so still doesn't explain the motivation.

So as you're a psychology boffin cmdr, I'm interested to hear, what's driving them? Any further insight?

* For a good example of this see grand theft auto online, where the developers (rather misguidedly) put in a punishment system to but badly behaved players into a segregated 'dunce' pool, but what happened overnight is griefers found ways to exploit the mechanic - they'd attack other random players and create situations whereby the victim inadvertently meets the 'bad behaviour' conditions - end result: victim gets thrown into the dunce pool, griefer remains untouched.
Click to expand...

Well said.

I'd also add that most griefers are never in any danger from their intended victim because they will invariably combat log if the tables are turned on them.
 

Comrade Error

Comrade Error
mung0 said:
@OP All rings pretty true but I don't think you've even touched the core of why griefers grief or gankers gank. Yep empathy is certainly leapt straight past, but the triggers don't even remotely fall into any of those 'desperation' categories.

There's no 'kill or be killed' motivator in your classic unprovoked gank, as they only attack coming from a position of superabundance of strength. Similarly with griefers, they tend to preferably come from angles where they can grief without possible comeback, or if possible add salt in the wounds by arranging situations that invite retribution by the victim, which in turn piles on even more grief*.
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Right. OP seems to be what we would describe as "people playing the game" as in bounty hunter getting his kills stolen and starts to shoot at the kill stealer. This is not a griefer. Or player killing for less in-game reasons such as "He said he had intercourse with my mum" and such. Simple beef or a decent reason to kill someone. You get what I'm saying and most people don't have much of a problem with these people, except the time where a bounty hunter was paid to kill a fuelrat by another player(I know it wasn't actually the case but people thought it was and were still whiny).

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EponymousCowherd said:
Well said.

I'd also add that most griefers are never in any danger from their intended victim because they will invariably combat log if the tables are turned on them.
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One thing though. It may or may not be the case but some might feel it's justifiable when the people they attack do the same. I can certainly see the "They don't play by the rules so why should I?". Only thing that would stop them really is that willpower thing.
 
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ZenZak

ZenZak
Interesting points OP,however I believe it's low self-esteem and big/hurt egos that make players grief .
P.s please don't ask me to define the ego lol,although I like Eckharts definition-)).
 

TOM USMC

TOM USMC
@mung0
I wasn't trying to explain all behavior, but I think I understand what you are critiqueing. I will have to post on this later when I have time to cover it.

I'm not in disagreement with you I think we are talking past each other. I will respond.

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Error said:
Right. OP seems to be what we would describe as "people playing the game" as in bounty hunter getting his kills stolen and starts to shoot at the kill stealer. This is not a griefer. Or player killing for less in-game reasons such as "He said he had intercourse with my mum" and such. Simple beef or a decent reason to kill someone. You get what I'm saying and most people don't have much of a problem with these people, except the time where a bounty hunter was paid to kill a fuelrat by another player(I know it wasn't actually the case but people thought it was and were still whiny).

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One thing though. It may or may not be the case but some might feel it's justifiable when the people they attack do the same. I can certainly see the "They don't play by the rules so why should I?". Only thing that would stop them really is that willpower thing.
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No no. Griefers aren't playing the game. This was the point. Griefers are being Human. Each person bringing their psyche with those three essentials as a check and balance.

I will try and clarify, but it will have to wait. I do thank you for participating. I am encouraged to see the responses. This is important stuff for people new to humans.
 

mung0

mung0
TOM USMC said:
@mung0
I wasn't trying to explain all behavior, but I think I understand what you are critiqueing. I will have to post on this later when I have time to cover it.

I'm not in disagreement with you I think we are talking past each other. I will respond.
Click to expand...
Coolio I wasn't really disagreeing with you as much as being interested to get further insight about the ganker / griefer mindsets. I are be look forward to ye post :)
 
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