Yesterday I griefed/ganked/whatever'ed an Anaconda from my SRV. To be precise:
- I broke two rings of the shield on an Anaconda while sustaining almost no damage in my SRV during a 1v1 encounter
- Other CMDR ended the engagement via some combination of exit/log/block/whatever (not sure which, don't care). CMDR did this twice
- If CMDR didn't end our encounter(s) in this manner, I believe I would have destroyed the Anaconda
As evidence I have attached screenshots, redacted to conform to the forum's rules. I possess video of the encounter but withheld it to respect the CMDR's privacy.
Note that CMDR could have easily escaped via numerous other methods with just a very small amount of additional knowledge. With a modest amount of knowledge, CMDR could have destroyed me even from a weaponless anaconda.
Due to this encounter I feel it is incontrovertible that:
1. Ganking is not fundamentally related to engineering, or ganging up on people, or build choices, or anything like that
2. Ganking is fundamentally related to pilots' abilities and expectations.
Building from these two notions, I suggest the following things:
1 - Since ganking does not stem from power imbalance, any attempt to ameliorate it that is primarily "balance" based will fail
2 - A more productive approach would instead address pilots' abilities and expectations, and do so in-game. I believe many pilots simply do not realize how much information they are missing if they don't use 3rd party channels.
2a - One approach would be a series of relatively safe starter missions that make it very clear what the possible consequences/advantages/disadvantages of flying in open are. At minimum, the missions should give enough information for a pilot to make an informed decision about which mode they will enjoy the most, and which modes they can reasonably expect to survive in - it is very clear to me that many open CMDRs on DW2 have no idea of their vulnerability until it is too late.
2b - For those commanders who decide they prefer open, further strongly encouraged to do first starter missions should train particular skills. The exact content is debatable, but I would include things such as
- A family friendly version of all information in Rinzler's guide to trading in open
- Fundamentals such as "dismiss ship on land" and "4 pips to shield, evasive zoomy, high wake"
- If still unsure of abilities and/or want to be a "lawful" pilot, join a group like GARD and/or do what Ziljan tells you. There is value in mentorship and (potentially) safety in numbers
- Those who wish to be anything other than "lawful good" should be fwd'ed to ryan_m's guides to PvP and PvE
To proactively address a few potential responses:
Q - Feros you're crazy/[any other character trait]
A - Obviously. Now that this is established, please refrain from any other personal comments. This applies to both sides of the fence.
Q - CMDR in question has no obligation to deal with you, and his/her method of escape is thus admirable/correct/whatever.
A - OK. This is just a video game, and we can differ on our opinion here.
Q - This wasn't even a gank. You used comms, the "victim"'s initial reply indicated they were having fun, and you did this alone using a comically underpowered vessel to attack an endgame ship.
A - I disagree. Due to the CMDR's chosen method of ending the encounter (twice), these considerations actually make this the "best" gank I will ever perform in ED.
Q - If ganking is not related to build, why so many murder-de-lances out there?
A - Obviously it is easier with bigger guns. But we must look to first principles, and I think this encounter suggests an overpowering build is more of a convenience than a necessity for griefing.
Q - Wouldn't OpenPvE solve this?
A - Possibly.
Consider revision 1 of OpenPvE. Did FDev remove my ability to simply prevent CMDR from boarding his ship indefinitely (via hogging space, or SRV->SRV ramming)?
On revision two, do they account for 20 gankers literally surrounding a ship to prevent reboard?
That's just what I thought of off the top of my head and I've only been doing this a month; I'm sure veteran gankers would have many other ideas, and use them. (I wouldn't, I'm not that crazy)
Q - I don't believe you.
A - I am happy to have polite DMs in which I can be more specific.
Errata -
Round 1 was about 6 minutes, followed by 1 minute of empty, followed by round 2 which lasted about 1 minute.
Other CMDR was not AFK, and in fact tried a few things to stop me (ramming my SRV from his/her SRV, shooting my SRV from his/her SRV, boosting the SRV around like crazy, etc). I suspect CMDR simply didn't realize "dismiss ship" was an option. Had CMDR not ended the encounter the way CMDR did, I would consider the attempt at self defense valiant, albeit ineffective.
No surprise/ambush was involved. I messaged from the air while in my conda to tell CMDR I was going to attack from my SRV, and never deployed or used my anaconda hardpoints. I landed, disembarked, dismissed my ship, and commenced attempted murder. During the encounter, the other CMDR spent time in both ship and SRV.
I used basic ammo until the first log/menu-exit/whatever. I used medium synth ammo up to second, which is the first time in my career I have synthed anything but basic ammo. I will reflect on what is appropriate penance, and am unhappy that my suspicion of premature exit (which is what happened) drove me to such reprehensible moral depravity.
To those CMDRs still reading - if you approve of my ideas, but have nothing to add, a simple reply of "ZO." would be appreciated by the author. Please under no circumstances disparage the other CMDR in this example, or other forum members.
Z0.
- I broke two rings of the shield on an Anaconda while sustaining almost no damage in my SRV during a 1v1 encounter
- Other CMDR ended the engagement via some combination of exit/log/block/whatever (not sure which, don't care). CMDR did this twice
- If CMDR didn't end our encounter(s) in this manner, I believe I would have destroyed the Anaconda
As evidence I have attached screenshots, redacted to conform to the forum's rules. I possess video of the encounter but withheld it to respect the CMDR's privacy.
Note that CMDR could have easily escaped via numerous other methods with just a very small amount of additional knowledge. With a modest amount of knowledge, CMDR could have destroyed me even from a weaponless anaconda.
Due to this encounter I feel it is incontrovertible that:
1. Ganking is not fundamentally related to engineering, or ganging up on people, or build choices, or anything like that
2. Ganking is fundamentally related to pilots' abilities and expectations.
Building from these two notions, I suggest the following things:
1 - Since ganking does not stem from power imbalance, any attempt to ameliorate it that is primarily "balance" based will fail
2 - A more productive approach would instead address pilots' abilities and expectations, and do so in-game. I believe many pilots simply do not realize how much information they are missing if they don't use 3rd party channels.
2a - One approach would be a series of relatively safe starter missions that make it very clear what the possible consequences/advantages/disadvantages of flying in open are. At minimum, the missions should give enough information for a pilot to make an informed decision about which mode they will enjoy the most, and which modes they can reasonably expect to survive in - it is very clear to me that many open CMDRs on DW2 have no idea of their vulnerability until it is too late.
2b - For those commanders who decide they prefer open, further strongly encouraged to do first starter missions should train particular skills. The exact content is debatable, but I would include things such as
- A family friendly version of all information in Rinzler's guide to trading in open
- Fundamentals such as "dismiss ship on land" and "4 pips to shield, evasive zoomy, high wake"
- If still unsure of abilities and/or want to be a "lawful" pilot, join a group like GARD and/or do what Ziljan tells you. There is value in mentorship and (potentially) safety in numbers
- Those who wish to be anything other than "lawful good" should be fwd'ed to ryan_m's guides to PvP and PvE
To proactively address a few potential responses:
Q - Feros you're crazy/[any other character trait]
A - Obviously. Now that this is established, please refrain from any other personal comments. This applies to both sides of the fence.
Q - CMDR in question has no obligation to deal with you, and his/her method of escape is thus admirable/correct/whatever.
A - OK. This is just a video game, and we can differ on our opinion here.
Q - This wasn't even a gank. You used comms, the "victim"'s initial reply indicated they were having fun, and you did this alone using a comically underpowered vessel to attack an endgame ship.
A - I disagree. Due to the CMDR's chosen method of ending the encounter (twice), these considerations actually make this the "best" gank I will ever perform in ED.
Q - If ganking is not related to build, why so many murder-de-lances out there?
A - Obviously it is easier with bigger guns. But we must look to first principles, and I think this encounter suggests an overpowering build is more of a convenience than a necessity for griefing.
Q - Wouldn't OpenPvE solve this?
A - Possibly.
Consider revision 1 of OpenPvE. Did FDev remove my ability to simply prevent CMDR from boarding his ship indefinitely (via hogging space, or SRV->SRV ramming)?
On revision two, do they account for 20 gankers literally surrounding a ship to prevent reboard?
That's just what I thought of off the top of my head and I've only been doing this a month; I'm sure veteran gankers would have many other ideas, and use them. (I wouldn't, I'm not that crazy)
Q - I don't believe you.
A - I am happy to have polite DMs in which I can be more specific.
Errata -
Round 1 was about 6 minutes, followed by 1 minute of empty, followed by round 2 which lasted about 1 minute.
Other CMDR was not AFK, and in fact tried a few things to stop me (ramming my SRV from his/her SRV, shooting my SRV from his/her SRV, boosting the SRV around like crazy, etc). I suspect CMDR simply didn't realize "dismiss ship" was an option. Had CMDR not ended the encounter the way CMDR did, I would consider the attempt at self defense valiant, albeit ineffective.
No surprise/ambush was involved. I messaged from the air while in my conda to tell CMDR I was going to attack from my SRV, and never deployed or used my anaconda hardpoints. I landed, disembarked, dismissed my ship, and commenced attempted murder. During the encounter, the other CMDR spent time in both ship and SRV.
I used basic ammo until the first log/menu-exit/whatever. I used medium synth ammo up to second, which is the first time in my career I have synthed anything but basic ammo. I will reflect on what is appropriate penance, and am unhappy that my suspicion of premature exit (which is what happened) drove me to such reprehensible moral depravity.
To those CMDRs still reading - if you approve of my ideas, but have nothing to add, a simple reply of "ZO." would be appreciated by the author. Please under no circumstances disparage the other CMDR in this example, or other forum members.
Z0.
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