Griffin What if!

[Noobilite]

Griffin - Elite Wiki

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I have a panther clipper build slowly becoming based on a class 9 slot. I came up with a griffin one based on 2 class 9 slots. I has even more cargo but it much slower and less jump range. So far this is a bit like a buffed up T-10.

The idea is that new ships like the Boa, Griffin, Panther Clipper are based on having class 9 optional slots to give them unique setups. I think the boa would be a 1000t hull transporter with an 8 sized FSD to let it carry 128-256 cargo the same jump ranges as the anaconda or more. Or be a mid ranged cargo. And in exploration mode possibly up to 100 to 120 ly jumps! Kind of a combo between an anaconda and a beluga.

Griffin is basically the biggest cargo ship with maxed out hull weight and maxed out cargo capacity and bending the abilities of all class 8 hardware related to movement. It should be the most massive least agile cargo ship. Slightly bigger than the panther clipper. Panther Clipper gets better hull weight. This does not.

Here is a very rough estimate:

Griffin cargo
Griffin Explorer

Cost: 600 million
Max Cargo: 1666 (1496 equipped)
Base Hull Weight: 1350t
Boost: 32MJ


Internal slots: (max class)
Armor: 1
Power Plant: 8
Engines: 8
FSD: 7
Life Support: 6
PD: 8
Sensor: 8
Fuel: 8

Presumed 9 shield:
9A Prismatic: Cost: 773,098,744.1; Mass: 640; Integrity: 203; Power Draw: 9.45?; Min mass: 1350; Optimal mass: 2700; Max mass: 6750; Regen Rate: 1.8; Broken Regen Rate: 6.66
9D Bi-Weave: Cost: 85,899,867.5; Mass: 320; Integrity: 170; Power Draw: 4.5?; Min mass: 1350; Optimal mass: 2700; Max mass: 6750; Regen Rate: 7.2; Broken Regen Rate: 18

AFMU:
9A: Cost: 89,261,676; Integrity: 196; Power Draw: 4.82; Repair Capacity: 12,500

Optional Slots: (first guess)
9
9
8
7
6
6
6
5
5 reserve
4
3
3
1

Or if no 9's exist:

8
8
8
8
8
8
7
6
5
5
4
1
1


Hardpoints: (XL would be turreted version of 4, similar or the same as capital ship weapons.)
XL
XL
L
M
M
M
S

Slot 9 items I've gone over so far:
9 size slots:
All 9 sized Fuel scoops: (estimates not necessarily accurate)
9A: Cost: 916,265,169; Scoop Rate: 2.181; Power Draw: 1.27mw; Integrity: 204
9B: Cost: 229,066,292; Scoop Rate: 1.869; Power Draw: 1.088571429mw; Integrity: 238
9C: Cost: 57,266,573; Scoop Rate: 1.557; Power Draw: 0.9071428571mw; Integrity: 170
9D: Cost: 14,316,643; Scoop Rate: 1.245; Power Draw: 0.7257142857mw; Integrity: 102
9E: Cost: 3,435,994; Scoop Rate: 0.933; Power Draw: 0.5442857142mw; Integrity: 136

9A SCB: Cost: 76,298,292; Mass: 320t; Integrity: 204; Power Draw: 3.86mw; Duration: 20.69s; Shield reinforcement: 73/s; Thermal Load: 880; Max Ammo: 4(approx: 1510.5mjx4; 1745mjx4 max engineered)

9E Cargo: 12,447,078, Credits 512 cargo.

Limpets:
9A Prospector Limpet: Range: 17,500, Max Limpets: 16, Power Draw: 1.08mw, Integrity: 232, Weight: 360t, Cost: 62,985,600
9A Collector Limpet: Range: 3,000, Max Limpets: 5, Power Draw: 1.28mw, Integrity: 232, Weight: 512t, Cost: 62,985,600
9E Decontamination Limpet: Range: 3280, Max Limpets: 5, Power Draw: 1.5mw, Integrity: 232, Weight: 290t, Cost: 11,809,800
9A Fuel Tranfer Limpet: Range: 3,500, Max Limpets: 16, Power Draw: 1.08mw, Integrity: 232, Weight: 320t, Cost: 62,985,600
9A Hatch Breaker Limpet: Active Range: 8,080, Target Range: 7,980, Hack Time: 0s, Max Limpets: 24, Power Draw: 1.26mw, Integrity: 200, Weight: 320t, Cost: 62,985,600
9E Recon Limpet: Range: 2,300-2,400, Hack Time: 8s, Max Limpets: 1, Power Draw: 1.5mw, Integrity: 232, Weight: 290t, Cost: ?
9A Repair Limpet: Range: 3,500, Repair Capacity: 600, Max Limpets: 5, Power Draw: 1.08mw, Integrity: 232, Weight: 320t, Cost: 62,985,600

 

[M00ka]

Seriously, have you heard this new concept called Fleet Carriers? I hear they are supposed to be introduced into the game sooner rather than later. One of the proposed modes for the Fleet Carrier is a Trade one.

Oh forget it I give up, design some mythical ship that takes size 20 slots, can move more carry than a station can hold, can wipe out the entire Thargoid threat in one shot and fly to Beagle Point on one tank of fuel in a single jump, I have given up trying to work out what different players want out of this game.

Look kudos for putting all the effort in but personally I don't think the game needs bigger ships, it needs things to do with the existing ships! Hell I have trouble filling my Corvette with mission cargo, I have all but given up using my T-9 for anything useful.

 

[Noobilite]

BTW, one of the things that could be put in with this ship specifically are new types of missions carrying both passengers and heavy cargo as a single mission. Or you could use it for a combo of missions at once. Maybe a new category of mission that just focuses on cargo seperate from the main mission board that seperates cargo to get better mission selection. They could do the same for mining and combat etc and get us better missions over all and then make more interesting ships to go with it. Literal multi role ships instead of one role at a time. Although you could focus it however you wanted.

Then we could get more ships with multi roll purposes instead of single roll focuses to take advantage of the increased board options for mission types. Passenger and cargo would go good together for instance. Weird things like passenger/combat extending the illegal missions where they check a combat zone to legal version where you work for a military organization and help fight also. They could get more extensive roleplaying scenarios for a wider range of new mission activities to make the game more interesting. Some could be tied into conflict zones for instance and you could be the reporters or other instanced things and add on to it to give more to do as those rolls than just what the NPC's currently do. Or they could make up whole new things that this makes feasible.

I may have mixed up things with the griffin and panther clipper though. If I gave the panther clipper the higher hull mass it would have the same jump range. Then if I gave the griffin the 800 hull mass it would be weighted down more by the fact it has more cargo making it less agile and giving it even less jump range like the difference between the two ships should be. Right now they have the same jump range.

 

[MK Regular]

See my post in your Puma thread as to why you are massively overestimating the cargo capacity of ship that you are adding from FE2/FFE:

You keep posting threads about adding ships from FE2 and FFE to ED, but you are consistently trying to compare apples to oranges. While you have elaborated more on several balancing aspects of the new versions of the ships you are proposing, you continue to propose the ships without taking into account the massive differences between ship outfitting in FE2/FFE and ED (namely, the "total capacity" of FE2/FFE and what it was required for).



While the Puma had a total capacity of 825 tons, under no circumstances could it actually use all 825 tons for cargo in FE2 or FFE. Let me go find the stats card for the Puma from the FFE Manual....

View attachment 156811

Note that the stat card says "drive + 575t" right next to the listed value of 825t of capacity. As I have said before, in FE2 and FFE the listed cargo capacity was needed to mount items that are now considered to be essential equipment in ED, notably the jump drive (plus around 10 tons of sensor equipment and a few extra things that now come standard). In the case of the Puma, the jump drive (a class 6 in this case) would take up 250 tons of the available 825 tons of total capacity, meaning that a player would only be able to carry 575 tons of equipment and cargo once they have mounted the jump drive. Note that this figure does not include sensor equipment (~10 tons) fuel for the jump drive (up to 36 tons per jump), or any weapons systems.

As such, a player should not expect their Puma in FE2 or FFE to be able to haul more than ~520 tons of cargo, and even then the ship would be an absolute deathtrap when it would get mobbed by pirates in the destination system (it would not have weapons or shields). You compare the cargo capacity of the Puma to the Type 9 and Imperial Clipper, but in reality the Puma's cargo capacity would be a lot closer to the Anaconda or Beluga.

I'll give you points for persistence with these topics, but could you please do a little bit more research before posting them?

 

[Stabby_Dave]

1 thread only - what if?

 

[Noobilite]

It might not fit it all. They are somewhat large posts.

Redone to fit with my new 1350t base hull panther clipper design. This design can only be done with 9 slot optionals. It may also require class 9 thrusters as it must have engineered class 8's to take it's full cargo weight! If it's jump range difference from the panther clipper is to be maintained it must have at least 2700 base hull mass. That or just keep it at 1350... Edit: Changed it to 1800t hull mass!

Griffin max mass 1800hull
Griffin 1800 hull equipped
Griffin 1800 hull Explorer

Presumed 9 shield:
9A Prismatic: Cost: 773,098,744.1; Mass: 640; Integrity: 203; Power Draw: 9.45?; Min mass: 1350; Optimal mass: 2700; Max mass: 6750; Regen Rate: 1.8; Broken Regen Rate: 6.66
9D Bi-Weave: Cost: 85,899,867.5; Mass: 320; Integrity: 170; Power Draw: 4.5?; Min mass: 1350; Optimal mass: 2700; Max mass: 6750; Regen Rate: 7.2; Broken Regen Rate: 18

That would put it at optimal for this shields proposal.

New Griffin:

Stats:
Base Shield: 800
Base Armor: 1000
Boost: 32 or 23
Cargo: 1812 (1584 equipped, 7D Shield, 5GFSB, 6AFS, SCA, ADC)
Base Hull Mass: 1800

Internals:
Armor: 1
Power Plant: 8
Thrusters: 8
FSD: 8
Life Support: 8
PD: 8
Sensors: 8
Fuel: 7 or 8?


Optional slots: (1800t hull)(1812/1584)
9
9
8
7
7
7
6
5
5
5 reserve
4
1
1

Or: (1812/1584)
8
8
8
8
8
8
7
6
5
5
4
1
1

Equipment Assumes: 128+64+32+2+2

Hardpoints:
H or XL (turreted size 4 or the same as a capital ship gun?)
M
M
M
S
S
S
S
S
S

Or: (original idea for layout)
H or XL
H or XL
L
M
M
M
S

Utility: (8)


Since the griffin now has the basic layout of the old panther clipper. I will give it it's hardpoints so it can do an 6 mining lance setup. Especially since the panther clipper could end up with only a 7 FSD and this setup requires and 8FSD to pull off. I will probably remove the XL Weapons from the Panther Clipper and only give it a huge or smaller.