Guardian Hull Reinforcements vs Human Hull Reinforcements

Guardian HRP vs Human HRP? Which to use?

1. Thargoid damage is CAUSTIC.

Caustic is a damage type, just like Thermal or Kinetic. This isn't very clear, since you also have the caustic damage over time missiles flying around, but Thargoid damage is caustic, so caustic resists apply to Thargoid damage!

There are three exceptions, but they don't matter very much. The first is lightning. It deals absolute, but does almost no damage to armor. The second is the phasing damage. This is absolute, but is only 10% of the damage taken to your shields(who uses shields?), so makes little difference. The last is Thargon Kamikaze Missiles. These deal damage proportionate to your hull size. All of these are pretty easily avoided. EVERYTHING ELSE is caustic.

This means that we can directly compare the Caustic effective armor of a Guardian ship to the Absolute armor on a Human ship.

2. Resistances apply to Modules.

This is the second thing people don't know. Resistances apply just as much to modules as to armor. This means that having Guardian Hull Reinforcements doesn't just make your armor stronger, it also makes your modules stronger.

3. Resistances also apply to repairs.

This is the real key, here. Most AX pilots carry repair limpets to heal throughout the fight, and the added HP from these limpets is absolute. This means it's multiplied in effectiveness by the resistances!

When should I use Guardian Hull Reinforcements?​

If you're just getting started, and you don't have hull reinforcements engineered, (and you can stand to grab one more guardian unlock!), they are 1000% worth it. They will give waaaay better results than unengineered human HRPs, hands down.

But if you're comparing full engineering, it depends! Many people will correctly point out that Engineered Human HRPs will give you more starting hull(which is correct); if that's your main focus, by all means, use them! But that ignores the benefits above. Using the AXI's meta chieftain, for example, swapping the two C4 HRPs out will reduce your starting hull value from 3270 to 3155, a 115 point reduction. But after using 4 repair limpets(adding 1240 absolute), the human chieftain will have a new value of 4510, while the guardian chief will have 4529, AND an extra 10% module integrity to boot(that's as much as guardian module reinforcements, for free!), plus saving all those painful-to-get Core Dynamics Composites!

This is awesome, but on the flipside, they do take power to use. Make sure you don't go over your limit! (remember that if you need more power, you can always lower the power priority of your cargo hatch and FSD, and disable them during combat)

Rule of thumb? I'd always use at least one! Try to split your hull reinforcements 50/50 if you can, and adjust according to your personal preferences!

It will save you engineering mats, give superior sustained performance, better module integrity, and overall, be a pretty swell deal.

Good luck!
 
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Thanks for this! I spent the afternoon building an AX FAS to go take on some Scouts and only had the mats to get my HRPs to G3 level.

Not sure if I have the power but gonna try switching them out for some Guardian ones - at least the low engineered ones, I do have a couple of 5D modules with G4 engineering so those might be worth keeping?

My PP is G1 Armoured but I plan to move that to G3 which will give me a little more power and a little less heat. Just need to fly on out to whomever it is that does that, I forgot Felicity only did G1!

* EDIT * Shoot - I’m all outta Shield Emitters and High Density Composites from - yup - engineering the sodding HRPs!!

The module protection is a definite “hidden benefit” that I hadn’t thought of.
 
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Thanks for this! I spent the afternoon building an AX FAS to go take on some Scouts and only had the mats to get my HRPs to G3 level.

Not sure if I have the power but gonna try switching them out for some Guardian ones - at least the low engineered ones, I do have a couple of 5D modules with G4 engineering so those might be worth keeping?

My PP is G1 Armoured but I plan to move that to G3 which will give me a little more power and a little less heat. Just need to fly on out to whomever it is that does that, I forgot Felicity only did G1!

The module protection is a definite “hidden benefit” that I hadn’t thought of.

Glad to help! Basically the smaller the HRP the more likely it is to be worth swapping. I'd definitely swap up to 3D, those have low power costs and high benefits, and then it's on a case-by-case basis above that. Are your modules failing before your ship blows up? More Guardian! Is your ship exploding before your modules fail? More Human! Ideally you'd basically balance the two so you can multitask and repair both at the same time.

Of course, the nice thing is you can easily swap in guardian ones since you don't need to engineer them, so you can try every combination!
 
Glad to help! Basically the smaller the HRP the more likely it is to be worth swapping. I'd definitely swap up to 3D, those have low power costs and high benefits, and then it's on a case-by-case basis above that. Are your modules failing before your ship blows up? More Guardian! Is your ship exploding before your modules fail? More Human! Ideally you'd basically balance the two so you can multitask and repair both at the same time.

Of course, the nice thing is you can easily swap in guardian ones since you don't need to engineer them, so you can try every combination!
Well, luckily it’s the smaller ones that I ran out of mats to more fully engineer so that (hopefully!) works out well.

Haven’t actually used the ship yet - thought I was done building it then a few folks started mentioning that Guardian HRPs were considered worth using so wanna be in the best possible shape before shipping out!
 
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Okay … if Coriolis is accurate, it looks like I can add around 700 HPs against caustic by switching the C4 and below HRPs to Guardian ones.

But I will need to either OC my PP (seems like a bad idea) or get to G3 Armoured and shut down my FSD whilst weapons are deployed.

Or I could drop a Shield Booster … but that would take my measly 330MJ shields even lower - to around 240MJ - at which point I wonder whether it’s even worth having shields?!
 
Okay … if Coriolis is accurate, it looks like I can add around 700 HPs against caustic by switching the C4 and below HRPs to Guardian ones.

But I will need to either OC my PP (seems like a bad idea) or get to G3 Armoured and shut down my FSD whilst weapons are deployed.

Or I could drop a Shield Booster … but that would take my measly 330MJ shields even lower - to around 240MJ - at which point I wonder whether it’s even worth having shields?!
Most AX players skip shields, actually. They make your hit profile larger and take a lot more pip management.
 
Guardian modules are basically a decent alternative to engineering since you only unlock them once (except SAWs) and then save on mats.

Most of my non-combat ships are using guardian power plants & distributors since they don't need to be in tip top condition.
 
I did some calculations and i found another advantage of the guardian hull reinforcement - the (effective caustic hitpoints) / (mass) ratio.
The guardian reinforcements not only have caustic resistances but also weigh less, so if you take it into account, you get some interesting results.

Example:
Let's say you want to equip your ship with 4x size 3 hull reinforcement package.
With the standard ones engineered, you get 4 x 492 = 1968 hitpoints, while with the guardian ones you get 4 x 325 = 1300, which is a lot less
If you count in the resistances, then the standard ones will provide 1968 effective caustic hitpoints while the guardian ones 1300 * 1/(0.95^4) = 1596, which is still less.
But if you divide it by their mass, then the normal ones have 1968 / (4 x 5,6) = 88 effective caustic hitpoints per ton, while the guardian ones have 1596 / (4 x 4) = 100 effective caustic hitpoints per ton.

This effect is noticable already from 2 hull reinforcement packages up:
2 guardian packages have ~2.5% better effective hitpoints / mass ratio over 2 standard engineered ones.
3 guardian packages have ~8% better effective hitpoints / mass ratio over 3 standard engineered ones.
4 guardian packages have ~14% better effective hitpoints / mass ratio over 4 standard engineered ones.
5 guardian packages have ~20% better effective hitpoints / mass ratio over 5 standard engineered ones.
And it works for all reinforcement package sizes from 1 to 5.

So if you're optimizing for speed or maneuverability or jump range, the guardian ones are actually better. And for zero engineering material grind.
 
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