Guardian pp/pdist/etc

[Masta Squidge]

I'm sure it's been asked before but I'm not finding a specific answer that's relatively recent so I figured I'd ask. And thanks in advance.

What are the specific thargoid benefits to these? Nothing?

Aside from engineering making the regular ones better, does the hull reinforcement, module reinforcement, shield reinforcement, powerplant, or power distributor have any "unmentioned" benefit for ax combat?

And yes im aware of the power distributor powerplant output bonus and hull armor caustic resistance. Does the module reinforcement add anything in particular?


Or am I just better off engineering normal stuff?

 

[Dr. Nagi]

The module reinforcements certainly does, as you cannot engineer the normal ones.
Hull reinforcements have a niche use for shieldless AX builds if used in the small slots as they can get your caustic hitpoints above your raw ones. But only as additions to regular engineered ones.

 

[Masta Squidge]

So it looks to me like stacking engineered ones is superior damage resistance even accounting for the caustic res vs thargoids. I also noticed that having one guardian small one in addition to the engineered human ones did provide a slight benefit, but after ONE the engineered ones seem to be a better choice.

But unlocking the engineers might be more difficult than unlocking the modules on my alt account. Maybe I will just go get the guardian stuff unlocked first.

 

[Jmanis]

So,

Guardian Shield Reinforcement: Unique item, no vanilla item like it, so if you're shield tanking, it'll offer a boost beyond what you can normally do.
Guardian Module Reinforcement Package: Superior to the vanilla item, except it requires a small amount of power.
Guardian Hull Reinforcement Package: Definitely fairly inferior to even a basically Heavy Duty engineered variant (G1-2). It uniquely offers corrosion resistance, but as mentioned, that's outstripped by some fairly rudimentary engineering
Guardian Powerplant/Power Distributor: In combination, allows you to overload to 104% power requirements. Engineered G4-5 will outperform, but that's much more expensive in terms of materials[1] than the scenario for the HRP's. So Guardian PP/PDist are a great credit-only alternative, unless you're paranoid about min-maxing literally everything.

[1] This might not be a problem if you're the sort of player who insists on having a full hold of every data and material type out there, but nonetheless, it's an additional cost, and cannot be ignored in any objective assessment.

 

[Urazz]

I think the guardian hull reinforcement packages could use a buff to at least be equal to G4/G5 engineered variants.

 

[Masta Squidge]

Yeah the build in question will require the guardian pdist if I don't engineer the power plant but to me it's a big shame there's no ax benefit like the old rumored shutdown pulse immunity on the power plant.

 

[Dr. Nagi]

Additional info about that caustic resistance: Since it's resistance on your hull, it only ever comes into play when there are no shields. Thargoids do have attacks with bleedthrough damage, but every point of damage that goes through shields and affects the hull directly is converted to Absolute damage. That also goes for human weapons: Phasing Sequence Pulse Lasers do Thermal damage on shields, but Absolute damage on the hull with the bleedthrough effect.

 

[Jmanis]

I think the guardian hull reinforcement packages could use a buff to at least be equal to G4/G5 engineered variants.

I would argue they should be buffed to equal G4/5-engineerd variants for corrosive resistance only, or have minimal human-type resistances.

Preamble: I tried running numbers, but I don't feel like putting excessive amounts of effort into this, so here's some very rough figures. Also, don't forget about Meta-Alloy Hull Reinforcements! I'm also going to exclude experimental effects, and the base hull it's fit to.

Currently we've got:
5D Hull Reinforcement Unengineered: +2.5% Exp/Kin/Ther, 390 armour
G5 Heavy-Duty Reinforced 5D HRP: +17.13% Exp/Kin/Ther, 671 armour (+72%)
5D Meta-Alloy HRP: +3% Cor, 351 armour
52 Guardian HRP: +5% Cor, +2% Ther, 488 armour

That 5D Meta-Alloy HRP is, well, pathetic, even compared to the Unengineered 5D HRP. You need over 800 base hull for that to provide a significant advantage to a Thargoid (in a single-HRP configuration), so it's only going to be any use on a Type 10, if that.

So for a 5E Meta-Alloy HRP, I'd consider going something like +60% Corrosive, 400 armour. And maybe the 5D variant can go +40% Corrosive, 500 Armour

Meanwhile, the 5E Guardian HRP could go something like 400 Armour, +40% Corrosive, +10% Exp/Kin/Ther, and the 5E could go +30% Corrosive, +7.5% Exp/Kin/Ther and 450 Armour. You could even have a couple other variants within that for 5C, 5B and 5A.

This would make Guardian HRPs somewhat multipurpose, all-round Human and Thargoid defences, without actually making them superior in either role (but that's not terrible!), while Meta-Alloy Reinforcements are rooted in anti-thargoid defences, but fairly useless vs humans.

That, or just introduce xeno-specific engineering for these modules already.

 

[Masta Squidge]

Additional info about that caustic resistance: Since it's resistance on your hull, it only ever comes into play when there are no shields. Thargoids do have attacks with bleedthrough damage, but every point of damage that goes through shields and affects the hull directly is converted to Absolute damage. That also goes for human weapons: Phasing Sequence Pulse Lasers do Thermal damage on shields, but Absolute damage on the hull with the bleedthrough effect.

Good info. I know this, but still.

For specifics guys, I'ma go shoot goids with a sidewinder, so there wont be any shields.

 

[Dr. Nagi]

Good info. I know this, but still.

For specifics guys, I'ma go shoot goids with a sidewinder, so there wont be any shields.

Then put one in a size 1 slot.

 

[Masta Squidge]

Then put one in a size 1 slot.

I actually know very little about fighting thargoids, so I don't know how much of their damage is caustic vs not or anything of the sort.

That said, I'm gonna find out.

 

[Dr. Nagi]

I actually know very little about fighting thargoids, so I don't know how much of their damage is caustic vs not or anything of the sort.

That said, I'm gonna find out.

Main cannon and swarm fire are caustic.
Lightning is "shield damage", kinda weird one, doesn't do as much to hull as it does to shields but also isn't thermal...
Swarm missiles are collision damage.

 

[Jmanis]

Main cannon and swarm fire are caustic.
Lightning is "shield damage", kinda weird one, doesn't do as much to hull as it does to shields but also isn't thermal...
Swarm missiles are collision damage.

Yeah, despite the variances in damage amounts, everything I read about the lightning is that it's "absolute", even if it's different amounts vs shield and armour.