Hardware advice please! (Warthog / Graphics / Rift)

cmdr awesome

cmdr awesome
Hi all,
It turns out this awesome new version of Elite probably won't run on my Acorn Electron, so I need to get a new PC :eek:

I will need to start pretty much from scratch, and am looking for a bit of hardware advice. I've done plenty of reading on here and other forums, so mainly just need a few final pointers from people who have played the beta and some confirmation that I've not missed anything. So, here we go...

I want a "competent" setup for the release of the game, but when Oculus Rift CV1 is released (probably late 2015) I want to upgrade to an "Elite" rig with minimal replacements. Little is known for sure about the consumer version of the Rift as it's early days, but I've learned this:
- It will need a single graphics card capable of maintaining 70fps. Forget SLI/Crossfire as it introduces too much latency.
- The new DK2 headset is 1080p, and I think CV1 is likely to be higher res still
- This means even £1000 of graphics card today might only *just* be up to the job.

So, for the new machine I was looking at this:
http://www.box.co.uk/Cube_Assassin_Gaming_PC_Core_i7k_Overclo_1552774.html
It seems decent enough, and comfortably above the min recommended Alpha spec. I'm considering doubling the RAM and dropping the spec on the graphics card to a GTX 750 - I figure the graphics will need replacing within 12 months anyway and that should be good enough. I'd welcome your comments on both of these adjustments!

That brings me to controls. The Saitek x52 Pro is clearly the stick of choice for most people and for good reason - it's reasonably priced and has that nice twist throttle. However this is the only part of my Cobra Mk3 that I'll be able to touch, and it needs to be right. I don't want to invest in a set of controls that I'll eventually want to upgrade, so am looking very seriously at the rather lovely Warthog:
http://www.box.co.uk/Thrustmaster_Hotas_Warthog_Flightstick__1520878.html

I know a few of you guys have them and love them, and I'm interested in finding out how anyone uses the Warthog for Yaw without pedals. Can you enjoy the Warthog with ED without them? does it mean you have to use the 'yaw then roll' option and does that cause any problems flying?

I've also been looking at warthog extensions - can any warthog users comment on the stiffness of the stick and whether a short extension would offer an improvement?

My last question is about monitors. Do specific gaming monitors make a really noticeable difference or will any 22" 1080p monitor do the job? Given my plan to get the Rift I don't really want to make a big investment there if it's not needed.

Finally I'd just like to say WOW! I backed the project early on in kickstarter and am MASSIVELY looking forward to the release of the game. To all those Alpha backers - THANK YOU for making such a big deal about immersion and helping supercruise come about.

looking forward to seeing you all out there in spaaaaace...
 

sahib

S
You mentioned X52 and I can offer my 0.2$ on that subject. I had both the basic (three of them actually - two were DOA) and the pro version of that stick. To tell you the truth... I hated them. I didn't like the stick's spring action, I hated the fact it wobbled like crazy (even with the twist motion locked) and the potentiometers are absolute crap. I still have the throttle unit and after a couple of years the rotaries are unusable. And don't let me even start about the Saitek software and the overall materials used in construction of the device...

On the other hand, Warthog is the best HOTAS you can possibly get and the only one you will never feel the need to upgrade. Period. There is currently nothing available on the market that even comes close to the quality of that stick (maybe with the exception of CH Products). As an added bonus, you can use it as a self-defense weapon :)

True - it doesn't have the twist (rudder) action. This basically requires you to buy pedals, but trust me - once you try flying that (correct) way, you will never want to go back.

The spring is very stiff, especially compared to Saitek's products, but the extension will do the trick. There is one other option, mainly removing the big spring from the stick - I did that to fly helicopters (LOTS of little corrections) and I like it better than the extension. If you decide on this stick I can try to find the youtube tutorial I followed to remove the spring to maybe help you out.

TLDR version: If you can afford it, go for the Warthog. Every other stick is a toy compared to this monster and you will not regret your decision.
 
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bwf1975

B
Have you not thought about building your own pc, or getting friend to build.
You could get so much more for your money, and its really very simple to do.
I learned to build my own watching vids on you tube and guides online.
If going to buy pre built, make sure it has top notch power supply, most important parts of system, go for seasonic, corsair.
I7's are waste for gaming, as 99% of games dont utilise the hyperthreading feature and can actually give worse performance in games.
a i5 3570k mobo package and a 780/780ti would see you good for years to come, and i5 packages can be picked up for very good prices, throw in a decent psu could get for same money as quoted pc, and be far superior.
 
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Tylermon

T
As an owner of a warthog I have to say a few things.

  • I love it
  • It feels great
  • Superb performance
  • My stream viewers love it when I flip switches and pull triggers
  • I love it when I flip switches and pull triggers
  • You know the thing is built to last
  • I cant stress how great it feels
  • Did I mention I love it? A TON

Can you control yaw with it? Yes. not a problem.
But just because you CAN does not mean you should.

I ended up buying some saitek pedals to go with my warthog.
That was another purchase I am very happy and recommend to any and all warthog users.
Buy pedals.
----------------------------------------------
RIG Advise
----------------------------------------------
BUILD IT YOURSELF.
Worst case scenario.
Give me a budget and I will give you a list of parts.

Trying to stay within reason:
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/7CgTP6
$1400 system

I really would recommend a 780ti over 770. But a 770 works amazing.
780ti is about $300 extra.
 

chaseydog

chaseydog
I've never been a big fan of twist yaw. As Alpha 1.1 only supported one controller I was unable to use my pedals with my WH so I needed to find an alternate solution. I was alternating between mapping the yaw axis to the slider next to the right throttle (analog) and mapping left/right yaw to the hat switch (digital). Neither was ideal but it worked.

As the PB supports multiple controllers this is no longer an issue. If your going to spend the money for WH I think its in your best interest to get some pedals as well.
 

Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
Now the newer intel parts are on the way, you should be able to get an old i5 for a relatively little amount.

i5, 8Gb, SSD, Windows 7, card of your flavor - great fun on the cheap!
 

Devil

Devil
Build it yourself, there enough techs around on these boards to give you all the advice you will ever need.

+1 Warthog.
 

Katkon

K
I REALLY wanted to get the Warthog BUT the assumed need for pedals (which I didn't want - as I play from the couch) pushed me to the next best alternative - based on my own research - the X52 Pro.

I did fiddle around with both in-store before buying and must say the Warthog is LEAGUES above the Saitek in the heft, materials and feel department. I'm not a pilot, but that thing looks and feels as real as I'd imagine the real thing does - if that makes sense. If you're OK with pedals, I'd opt for the Warthog as an X52 Pro owner - PURELY based on feel.

That being said, the X52 Pro doesn't feel cheap in and of itself. It's certainly lighter and more toy-like, but it does work brilliantly with Elite.

Now - if someone could enlighten my as to how the Warthog handles yaw without pedals I'd be intrigued. Would really like to know! I do use yaw ALL the time in Elite, so really don't want to do without it.
 

sahib

S
Katkon said:
Now - if someone could enlighten my as to how the Warthog handles yaw without pedals I'd be intrigued. Would really like to know! I do use yaw ALL the time in Elite, so really don't want to do without it.
Click to expand...

I normally never fly without my pedals, but as the circumstances forced me to (limiting amount of crap laying around due to house repairs) I found that mapping yaw axis to the mouse "nipple" on the throttle unit does the trick. It's not very comfortable of intuitive, but it's managable :)
 

LtCasey

LtCasey
Hi, Warthog owner here, but I use my Cougar for Elite. Anyway, booth have nö rudder axis build in.

IF I would Not use pedals (but i do), then I would Map the yaw to the coolie.
 

cmdr awesome

cmdr awesome
Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm definitely going to be going for the Warthog, and will see how I go with Yaw on the coolie - I don't really have the space for pedals.

I'm no stranger to building computers but the individual component costs (don't forget the OS licence!) aren't that different to what box will sell a complete system for, and the system comes with a warranty.

That particular system also seems to have a decent selection of components - see review here:
http://www.kitguru.net/desktop-pc/z...core-i7-overclocked-assassin-w-msi-gtx-770/2/

I might still build my own to fine-tune the spec (more ram, no optical drive or wifi, different graphics card), but cost isn't a decent reason to go that way IMHO.

My main issue is around choosing a competent graphics card without going overboard - where is the 'sweet spot' between price and in-game experience?
When the rift is released I'll be replacing the card so it isn't worth investing heavily in.

Also - can anyone really tell the difference between a specialist gaming monitor and any old 1080p screen?
 

cmdr awesome

cmdr awesome
ste said:
About £750-£800 to build that. I would chuck a SSD in as well if I was you.
Click to expand...

I found it was a bit more - £1250 including the Warthog. I chose an SSHD drive rather than separate SSD and HDD. I checked the prices of most items from several suppliers and box were either the cheapest or very close on every single thing. I could have saved £100 or so by dropping the graphics to a 760 and the CPU to an i5, but hey.

He's my full shopping list from box:
A203790
Aerocool Dead Silence Orange Gaming Cube Case, 0.8mm, Matx, 2 X Usb3, 20Cm Black Fan
1 £65.71
6745890
MSI Z87M-Gaming Intel Z87 Socket 1150 Express Chipset Motherboard , 4X DDR3, 8X USB 3.0, 6X USB 2.0 , HDMI,DP,M-ATX , Z87M-GAMING
1 £89.99
1490940
Kingston HyperX Beast 16 GB RAM Memory Kit (2x 8 GB),DDR3 , 2400 MHz, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CL11, 240-pin DIMM, KHX24C11T3K2/16X
1 £132.20
2304168
Intel Core i7-4770S 1150 Haswell Processor , 1150, Haswell, Quad Core, 3.1GHz, 3.9GHz Turbo, 1200MHz GPU, 31x Ratio, 65W, Retail , BX80646I74770S
1 £220.19
A011211
Aerocool Strike-X 800W Modular PSU, 80+ Silver Certified, Twin 12v Rails, 6x SATA Connectors, 2x PCI-e 6+2 Pins, 5x Peripheral Connectors, EN53754
1 £89.28
6699799
Windows 8.1 64 Bit OS Operating System OEM DVD English 1 Licence,WN7-00614
1 £77.99
6240231
Msi Dragon Liquid Cpu Processor Cooler
1 £39.99
6525137
Msi NVIDIA GeForce Gtx 770 Gaming Video Graphics Card N770 TF 2GD5/OC,2 GB,PCI-Express X16, Dual-DVI | HDMI | DisplayPort, DDR5, N770 TF 2GD5/OC
1 £224.99
Cashback Offer. Amount : £0.00; Text: *Qualifying GPUs may differ in each region/country; URL: http://www.geforce.com/GE****CHDOGS
1 £0.00
watchdog
Watch Dogs Game Card - Only with select Video Card purchases!
1 £0.00
G026808
Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog Flightstick ,PC,2960720
1 £249.00
1401457
Seagate 1TB 8Gb SSD Solid State Hybrid Hard Drive ,8GB SSD Hard Drive ,ST1000DX001
1 £59.99
DEL-000010
£3.95 - Upto 2 Days (UK MAINLAND Mon-Fri) DPD PARCEL NEXTDAY (ZZ)
1 £3.95
 

ste

S
After a second look it is actually a very good deal, you would struggle to beat that doing it yourself.

Is that a trust worthy place, Ive never heard of it before.
 

Amadeus

A
The warthog looks brilliant and if I had the spare money i'ld be tempted too.

One thing to consider with all those flick switches is that you'll be operating them blind with the Rift on. Better build up the muscle memory.

As for cards, they're going to change dramatically in the next few years to tailor themselves to VR.
Going to keep my GTX580 running on fumes until then!
 

Dirtmuncher

D
Go for a i5 4690 without the k if you don't over clock and don't do video editing. I7 only has hypertreading extra. It will save you a bunch.
8 gigs of ram. Gigabyte sniper b1 motherboard if you do t overclock. 240 gig ssd.
Video card is where you need to invest or get a card that is good enough. Nothing out now will run cv1 1440p @90fps on ultra. So you could now get a 750 ti and buy a good GPU once cv1 comes out (probably mid 2015).
 

Simon853

S
I trick to help with the X52's sticky centre action and tight spring is to use tie-wraps to pull two of the spring coil loops together and rub a tiny bit of cooking oil onto where the collar rides up the stick shaft.

A cheaper option for a solid HOTAS that's cheaper than the Warthog is Thrustmaster's old F16 replica Cougar. But they're much sought after and don't go cheap on eBay. (I've got two, one I use and a backup.)

Si
 

cmdr awesome

cmdr awesome
ste said:
After a second look it is actually a very good deal, you would struggle to beat that doing it yourself.

Is that a trust worthy place, Ive never heard of it before.
Click to expand...

Will tell you next week! :D

I'm pretty sure they are solid suppliers though. They even have a physical store which is more than Amazon or ebuyer.

When I first started looking at the Warthog a month or two ago it was £300+, so think this is not a bad deal.
 
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