hardware bug patch about to slow down intel cpus?

Heh, I just bought a Ryzen, today. :D

Though seriously, is it just me or is Intel getting more and more sloppy with their CPU designs?
 
Heh, I just bought a Ryzen, today. :D

Though seriously, is it just me or is Intel getting more and more sloppy with their CPU designs?

"Depends", even Ryzen is not without its flaws, and up until Ryzen, AMD cpu's have been comparatively 'simple' (in the hyper complex world of cpu architecture) and has competed often by increasing clock speed and heat production.

Intel, has increased complexity and gotten performance that way, though as clearly seen not without also introducing problems that they didn't catch.
In this case using something that has seemed to have no issues in many cpu's only to be discovered to be a hole in all.

CPU design is insanely complex, and yeah this isn't great, and definitely is making me consider AMD as well.

So yeah the complexities in cpu design means that yes, flaws are very very very bad, but at the same time cpu design has reached a complexity that only a select few truly understand, heck even then its computer assisted.
 
"Depends", even Ryzen is not without its flaws, and up until Ryzen, AMD cpu's have been comparatively 'simple' (in the hyper complex world of cpu architecture) and has competed often by increasing clock speed and heat production.

Intel, has increased complexity and gotten performance that way, though as clearly seen not without also introducing problems that they didn't catch.
In this case using something that has seemed to have no issues in many cpu's only to be discovered to be a hole in all.

CPU design is insanely complex, and yeah this isn't great, and definitely is making me consider AMD as well.

So yeah the complexities in cpu design means that yes, flaws are very very very bad, but at the same time cpu design has reached a complexity that only a select few truly understand, heck even then its computer assisted.

That's part of what I mean. The sudden competition is good for the customer from financial standpoint, but rushed-out products are not.
I hope they will sort it out. Trying to patch these screw-ups by software is never ideal.
 
That's part of what I mean. The sudden competition is good for the customer from financial standpoint, but rushed-out products are not.
I hope they will sort it out. Trying to patch these screw-ups by software is never ideal.

and just like that.........new vulnerabilities that affect everything it seems, intel, amd, arm.
'Meltdown' and 'Spectre'

Just announced, yikes
Edit: though the intel one, seems very like the one mentioned here, probably just a different approach.
 
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Deleted member 110222

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and just like that.........new vulnerabilities that affect everything it seems, intel, amd, arm.
'Meltdown' and 'Spectre'

Just announced, yikes

I'm done. Please... Can someone tell me what the hell is going on? I completely overwhelmed, as I don't claim to properly understand what's happening.

Can someone explain for an idiot? Am I safer just leaving my PC turned off for now?
 
I'm done. Please... Can someone tell me what the hell is going on? I completely overwhelmed, as I don't claim to properly understand what's happening.

Can someone explain for an idiot? Am I safer just leaving my PC turned off for now?

Stay calm. If every one of the hundreds of software and hardware vulnerabilities meant our PCs were immediately exploited in one way or another, the world would collapse. :)
 

Deleted member 110222

D
Stay calm. If every one of the hundreds of software and hardware vulnerabilities meant our PCs were immediately exploited in one way or another, the world would collapse. :)

Okay. You're going to have to forgive. Not understanding something, as I am sure you know, generates panic.

Add that to someone who's, well, you know my state of health... My brain is all over the place.
 
Okay. You're going to have to forgive. Not understanding something, as I am sure you know, generates panic.

Add that to someone who's, well, you know my state of health... My brain is all over the place.


Honestly, it appears no one will truly know the extent of the issue until next week.

It currently means there will be a Microsoft Windows update to address this, which might, or might not, result in a permanent marginal slowdown (5-30%) of your computer. The update will be for all Intel chips that have been manufactured in the past 10 years. Until the update goes into affect, its business as usual.

AMD is stating that their chips are unaffected...but there are discussions that all CPU manufacturers are possibly affected...
 
AMD is stating that their chips are unaffected...but there are discussions that all CPU manufacturers are possibly affected...

Unaffected by the previous reported, the new ones affect amd and arm as well. Spectre is the amd version from my understanding.

But yeah, remain calm exploitation is currently unlikely so far, and everyone is scrambling to patch, keep your system up to date.
 
I'm done. Please... Can someone tell me what the hell is going on? I completely overwhelmed, as I don't claim to properly understand what's happening.

Can someone explain for an idiot? Am I safer just leaving my PC turned off for now?

Ok I cannot even remotely claim to be certain but here is how I understand it.

Intel's cpu has a technique for speed reading tasks, and executing almost pre-emptively and this bypasses safety checks that it really shouldn't.

Sort of like it get's a list of tasks, to a minute level, like when clearing a breakfast table.
The list could go:
Open fridge.
Pick up milk.
Put milk in frigde.
etc etc.

I open the fridge door with my left hand, and the right hand is already holding the milk carton.
But instead of 'pre-fetching' the milk carton some clever gits has figured they could interject a command to instead open the gun vault, or coded jewellery box.
So someone could make a java or other application or something that would trick the CPU into revealing memory to the application, from a segment of memory that has no business of having access to, like where OS passwords and access tokens etc are stored.

The patch is so far mostly to enforce security checks and this probable costs a bit of overhead, on top of the drop in efficiency from the pre-fetching of tasks.
For us at home users I'm sure it will be rather small impact, games are a rather tailored and well defined task for cpu's anyways so I don't expect them to even use the pre-fetch a lot.
More heavy data center type activities like databases etc will probably be where we see the 30% jump and honestly this could be a disaster for such services.
They will most likely have to scale back server utilisation and add hardware later, but as all things this is not our problem.

Industry wise this is easily comparative if not worse than the VW mileage\fuel consumption fiasco.

Also.

  • The research described was performed in a controlled, dedicated lab environment by a highly knowledgeable team with detailed, non-public information about the processors targeted.
  • The described threat has not been seen in the public domain.
I would as a layman not consider this something to worry about, it is important it was discovered and important it is patched but nothing really bad hasn't happened yet.
 
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Honestly, it appears no one will truly know the extent of the issue until next week.

It currently means there will be a Microsoft Windows update to address this, which might, or might not, result in a permanent marginal slowdown (5-30%) of your computer. The update will be for all Intel chips that have been manufactured in the past 10 years. Until the update goes into affect, its business as usual.

AMD is stating that their chips are unaffected...but there are discussions that all CPU manufacturers are possibly affected...

I will put off my pc upgrade. My pc has an 11 year old chip in it now. Still playing ED , I only have 4 logical processors. reading reports on it so far, it looks like multi tasking is the main area which may take a hit on performance.

Playing a game shouldn't take a hit.

I will still end up upgrading and I will end up with an intel at the moment. Intel i9 7940x out performed 1950x Ryan due to bottle necks in data flow when gaming. AMd not beaten when multitasking only beaten when gaming

.
 
The biggest impact this will have is on the Server side of things....databases, cloud services and virtual machines will have the most performance impact.

End users applications and games I think have the least to worry about.

We will know a lot more in the coming weeks.

It would more likely effect the performance of elite servers rather then the front end client for instance.
 
The biggest impact this will have is on the Server side of things....databases, cloud services and virtual machines will have the most performance impact.

End users applications and games I think have the least to worry about.

We will know a lot more in the coming weeks.

It would more likely effect the performance of elite servers rather then the front end client for instance.

Yes, from what I understood, games don't use these sets of instructions and functionality, anyway. So servers and maybe some CPU intensive software (Premiere, Photoshop, etc.?) will be the main problem.
 
Yes, from what I understood, games don't use these sets of instructions and functionality, anyway. So servers and maybe some CPU intensive software (Premiere, Photoshop, etc.?) will be the main problem.

Those are probably closer to games in their CPU use
The main problems would be high volume I/O databases and cloud services.

In most likely hood this could be a bigger problem for the Amazon cloud services that FD use to run elite
 
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