Engineers Has the game become inaccessible for solo players?

[Texanhick20]

i've been playing since almost the beginning, when Horizons was available for purchase I actually bought the lifetime subscription, but I've got a question.

Is it just me, or does the game feel inaccessible to a person playing by themselves?

Just today I was in my python, A rated all the way, nothing from The Engineers and I was fighting a single Vulture npc. It took over 15 minutes for me to get it down to 8% hull, then it's shields came back online 2 full rings, and when I started to fight it again, the game kicked me off..

Had I actually killed the thing, I wouldn't have gotten but a few thousand credits for it's bounty and it would have taken me the better part of half an hour (or more) to kill a single ship.

This is not fun... Fun is having a challenging fight, but being able to kill something in under 5 minutes.. Most of the fight I was staring at Empty space trying to bring my ship around to kill the damn NPC cause it would just shoot past me... turn around, and shoot past me again.. my windows of opportunity for shooting the thing were very low.

I'd love to play with other people, but my schedule generally has me online when my friends who play this game aren't, but it just feels like it's now nigh impossible to advance in this game without being in a full wing of ships each focusing fire on the same ship...

Does anyone else have this issue? Have you come up with a solution?

 

[matemaster]

Not worth fighting such a fight. If you are in less maneuverable ship than NPC and the NPC sticks like glue at your 6 just disengage and run away, dont play the turning game you will either lose or it will take 15 minutes like you said.

 

[Susanna]

i've been playing since almost the beginning, when Horizons was available for purchase I actually bought the lifetime subscription, but I've got a question.

Is it just me, or does the game feel inaccessible to a person playing by themselves?

Just today I was in my python, A rated all the way, nothing from The Engineers and I was fighting a single Vulture npc. It took over 15 minutes for me to get it down to 8% hull, then it's shields came back online 2 full rings, and when I started to fight it again, the game kicked me off..

Had I actually killed the thing, I wouldn't have gotten but a few thousand credits for it's bounty and it would have taken me the better part of half an hour (or more) to kill a single ship.

This is not fun... Fun is having a challenging fight, but being able to kill something in under 5 minutes.. Most of the fight I was staring at Empty space trying to bring my ship around to kill the damn NPC cause it would just shoot past me... turn around, and shoot past me again.. my windows of opportunity for shooting the thing were very low.

I'd love to play with other people, but my schedule generally has me online when my friends who play this game aren't, but it just feels like it's now nigh impossible to advance in this game without being in a full wing of ships each focusing fire on the same ship...

Does anyone else have this issue? Have you come up with a solution?

I like to play in solo, and that is my feeling too. Unless you have backup from others, it's hard going indeed. Pre 2.0 I was in a wing working a CG. Yes we got attacked but being in a wing meant we could protect each other. As a solo player I have grave (pun intended) doubts you'd live all that long.

 

[Texanhick20]

Glad to know i'm not the only one. I was in a High Res, went back, and started attacking a lone FAS, and had a wing of 3 (Anaconda, and 2 pythons) start attacking me..

 

[Lucifer Hate]

i've been playing since almost the beginning, when Horizons was available for purchase I actually bought the lifetime subscription, but I've got a question.

Is it just me, or does the game feel inaccessible to a person playing by themselves?

Just today I was in my python, A rated all the way, nothing from The Engineers and I was fighting a single Vulture npc. It took over 15 minutes for me to get it down to 8% hull, then it's shields came back online 2 full rings, and when I started to fight it again, the game kicked me off..

Had I actually killed the thing, I wouldn't have gotten but a few thousand credits for it's bounty and it would have taken me the better part of half an hour (or more) to kill a single ship.

This is not fun... Fun is having a challenging fight, but being able to kill something in under 5 minutes.. Most of the fight I was staring at Empty space trying to bring my ship around to kill the damn NPC cause it would just shoot past me... turn around, and shoot past me again.. my windows of opportunity for shooting the thing were very low.

I'd love to play with other people, but my schedule generally has me online when my friends who play this game aren't, but it just feels like it's now nigh impossible to advance in this game without being in a full wing of ships each focusing fire on the same ship...

Does anyone else have this issue? Have you come up with a solution?

You say you been playing since "almost the beginning" of Horizons. There have been many of us playing for over a year longer than that since before release of Elite Dangerous that have been waiting for better NPCs. They have been fish in a barrel for far to long. Also a python should have trouble in a maneuver battle with a vulture.

 

[Texanhick20]

You say you been playing since "almost the beginning" of Horizons. There have been many of us playing for over a year longer than that since before release of Elite Dangerous that have been waiting for better NPCs. They have been fish in a barrel for far to long. Also a python should have trouble in a maneuver battle with a vulture.

no.. since the beginning of Vanilla ED.. I've been playing from about 45 days after the original launch..

As it sits right now.. for me to advance in this game, I have to do mind numbingly boring things.. Spend hours on an SRV on the ground trying to find magic rocks to get the things that'll get me the better things..

I don't want to do that... I didn't buy a space sim game, so I can drive around on a planet hoping to find rocks that I can use to do things back up in space... I didn't buy the game to play Space Trucker 3322 and play delivery boy and it aggravates me that I'm essentially being forced to do just that if I want to be able to do the things I /want/ to do...

And I agree that a python should have some trouble keeping a vulture in it's sights, but when I do have it in my sights my superior firepower should do something... It shouldn't take me 25+ minutes to kill a vulture in a ship that out guns it..

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Premium Beta backer here, been playing since before the first 1.0 release (mid-2014).

Started off bounty hunting and now mostly an explorer.

I split my time between playing in Solo (can't be bothered with other players) and Open (can be bothered with other players).

I can honestly say that Solo players are not being penalised with the new AI.

The AI are just presenting more of a realistic challenge. Space battles should never have been as easy as they were pre-2.1. Space battles should take more than a couple of hits with a pulse laser and boom that's that.

You want to make money? Get Allied with a minor faction. I've seen missions go for .5 to 1.5 million credits per mission. The missions are fun now! Some of them only take about 10 minutes maximum to do!

Okay so back to fighting the NPC's - I have some advice...

• Some NPC's are better than others
• Choose your battles wisely
• Let System Authority soften NPC's up a bit before you strike - this is a big, big help by the way.
• Hazardous RES is for Wing only - they were added so that winged players can have more challenge/fun
• Choose your battles wisely. (Anecdote: last night for a bit of a laugh I dropped into a USS Threat 4 in my slightly Engineer-enhanced Python. A wing of four Deadly Vultures which VERY quickly dropped my shields and equally quickly ate away at my hull. I barely managed to escape and had 23% hull left - and that was even after a crapload of Sys Auth NPC's dropped in).
• There is no shame in doing a Brave Sir Robin. You live to fight/run another day.

tl;dr No, the game has not become inaccessible to Solo players. Not one bit.

Regards.

 

[Lucifer Hate]

ahhh ok misunderstood from the way it read thought you meant beginning of Horizons. Nothing says you have to go on the planet. Some of the things you need from planets can be found mining so there are other options or can choose not to upgrade. You got to admit the AI has been a joke and needed the 2.1 to make them more than a mere fixture in the game for farming. Solo is not inaccessible as Genar said but it is not the same farming anymore. The crops are fighting back

 

[DukeIronHand]

Premium Beta backer here, been playing since before the first 1.0 release (mid-2014).

Started off bounty hunting and now mostly an explorer.

I split my time between playing in Solo (can't be bothered with other players) and Open (can be bothered with other players).

I can honestly say that Solo players are not being penalised with the new AI.

The AI are just presenting more of a realistic challenge. Space battles should never have been as easy as they were pre-2.1. Space battles should take more than a couple of hits with a pulse laser and boom that's that.

You want to make money? Get Allied with a minor faction. I've seen missions go for .5 to 1.5 million credits per mission. The missions are fun now! Some of them only take about 10 minutes maximum to do!

Okay so back to fighting the NPC's - I have some advice...

• Some NPC's are better than others
• Choose your battles wisely
• Let System Authority soften NPC's up a bit before you strike - this is a big, big help by the way.
• Hazardous RES is for Wing only - they were added so that winged players can have more challenge/fun
• Choose your battles wisely. (Anecdote: last night for a bit of a laugh I dropped into a USS Threat 4 in my slightly Engineer-enhanced Python. A wing of four Deadly Vultures which VERY quickly dropped my shields and equally quickly ate away at my hull. I barely managed to escape and had 23% hull left - and that was even after a crapload of Sys Auth NPC's dropped in).
• There is no shame in doing a Brave Sir Robin. You live to fight/run another day.

tl;dr No, the game has not become inaccessible to Solo players. Not one bit.

Regards.

Good advice.

 

[Texanhick20]

I don't know... While I understand that the NPC's of old were a bit of a push over, I do feel the swing the other way is a little too wide.. As it sits right now since Engineers went live, I've not been able to pick up a single bounty, I've lost a couple of million credits in repairs cause I wind up having to run away. I tried to play today... played for 40 minutes once.. and 30 minutes another time... Got so frustrated and bored flying back and forth repairing and trying to get ahead somewhere that I stopped playing after that long both times... Right now I'm seriously just watching Youtube videos and thinking about playing some Dawn of War 1 on it's hardest setting, cause I at least feel like I'm making progress in that game as I build my space marine forces..

I've put together less than 8 hours of play time since Engineers went live cause the things I can do to make money are boring (Trade/missions) and the things I want to do, are essentially unattainable.

 

[Osbo89]

Been playing since the beginning in open but now mostly playing in solo to avoid the pew-pew gang that like to
hang around bases but fighting npc has got a lot harder now but what's getting me is when flying my cutter I get pulled
over 90% of the time by a fer de-lance and 10% anaconda (before 2.1 it was any ship) but going out in the python it's
just the vulture with the cutter I have to high wake out with lots of damage and with the python I have only had two kills
which have taken around 15mins each (way to long) with damage so most of the time I just run..

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

Glad to know i'm not the only one. I was in a High Res, went back, and started attacking a lone FAS, and had a wing of 3 (Anaconda, and 2 pythons) start attacking me..

Its High Res .. What do you expect ... A nice picnic??

This is how the game should have been from the start. The issue is that people have got used to it being too easy.

 

[NikodemusDSD]

I am no backer, but I played since day one. Face it the game changed. I am Elite, but only in trade rank. My ingame life changed drasitcly since the release of engineers. I was flying my trader Cutter from CD-37 641 to Khun. A 26 jup light. I had no mission running and only 4t of modulat terminals on board. I got interdicted 5 times. 1 Federal Dropship, elite ranking. 1 Python, elite ranking. 3 Anaconda, elite ranking. I think I get interdicted for who am I, not what I have on board or what mission I am doing. Since Engineer was released the weakest enemy who tried to kille me was deadly. Fighting is not worth the time or the money. I hope the fighters are happy with the changes, me as a trader, I am not. I was disappointed when the T9 became an useless space pinata, but now its even worse. Last friday my friend and I where flying in a trader wing. I am in my Cutter, he in an Anaconda. A Federal assault ship with deadly ranking interdicted him. We destroyed the ship. I survived with 54%, he with 22%. The earned bounty didn´t even cover the repair cost. It is sad to say, but for traders running is now the only way to play, because fighters have complained to loud and to much.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I don't know... While I understand that the NPC's of old were a bit of a push over, I do feel the swing the other way is a little too wide.. As it sits right now since Engineers went live, I've not been able to pick up a single bounty, I've lost a couple of million credits in repairs cause I wind up having to run away. I tried to play today... played for 40 minutes once.. and 30 minutes another time... Got so frustrated and bored flying back and forth repairing and trying to get ahead somewhere that I stopped playing after that long both times... Right now I'm seriously just watching Youtube videos and thinking about playing some Dawn of War 1 on it's hardest setting, cause I at least feel like I'm making progress in that game as I build my space marine forces..

I've put together less than 8 hours of play time since Engineers went live cause the things I can do to make money are boring (Trade/missions) and the things I want to do, are essentially unattainable.

I can't give you more advice than what I already have, without more information, so I have some questions for you

1) The NPC's you're fighting : where are you doing this (RES? HAZ RES? CZ?)?

2) What rank are they? (Dangerous? Elite? etc.)

3) Are you fighting solo NPC's or are they in a Wing?

4) Is your opinion of missions being boring coloured by pre-2.1 missions or have you tried the 2.1-onwards missions?

I can't stand trading, by the way. I find trading even more dull than exploring - which is weird because you'd think exploration would be more boring than trading

Regards

 

[lemny]

I am flying a Python too and with the ne AI it could be a bit annoying to maneuver them out. You need flight assist off much more than before.

But i just tried a new setup. I switched from 2 large gimballed beams and 2 medium gimbaled multi cannons on the upper side to all pulse turrets (2 med/2 large).
The 3rd large Hardpoint on the underside i kept my large gimballed multi cannon.

It's half the DPS as before, but the pulse turrets can fire endlessly with 2-3 pips in weapons and they can hit much more than twice the time. And you can keep 3-4 pips in shields all the time.
I only go on full pips to weapons for the few moments when i use my large multi cannon at the bottom while facing the NPC. The other time you only need to keep your upper side to them and let

 

[sicksuntzu]

I play solo as well, and most of my game play is BH, I also fly a python. I go with 3x large mc and 2x turret beams, this helps loads as the turrets will keep damage on target while you turn. What i would say is get a dirty thruster upgrade as soon as you can, I just got lvl 2 and it makes a big difference in turns and staying on target. Im 1 mat short of trying for my lvl 3 thruster again which if im lucky will be even better. It is a grind doing the engie stuff but for me it has made my ship feel like something i want to fly again.

 

[Parmo]

I like to play in solo, and that is my feeling too. Unless you have backup from others, it's hard going indeed. Pre 2.0 I was in a wing working a CG. Yes we got attacked but being in a wing meant we could protect each other. As a solo player I have grave (pun intended) doubts you'd live all that long.

I play in Open but solo. I have never participated in a Wing. Heck it's a rare event to meet other Commanders. At the moment I'm tootling around in my Vulture exploring / scanning while going from Obsidian Orbital to one of the engineers. On the way to Maia I had a couple of interdictions which I submitted to.
I lead a peaceful existence, mostly, in ED. I'm not rich, 7MCr in cash, as I just like to wander around doing subsistence exploring. I do have to meet humanity though to cash in my exploration data.
I'm no trader, IIRC my trade stat is around 300KCr, nor a big combat seeker although I have been given the rank of 'Expert'.
Just being in space, seeing all the sights is enough for me, being alone in the vast void.
CG, PP? Nope not interested. Not even bothered about ranks with any faction but I know I'll have to sucker up to them if I want to own some of their ships.
Missions? Nah, not done many, a bit boring most of them; there's not much emotional narrative with all of this.
I would like to drive an SRV sometime though. My driving skills, well it'll be interesting.
I'm sad that a lot of people are a bit frustrated with some aspects of ED especially when the game changes underneath them and their expectations and assumptions.
One hidden assumption seems to be that the game will not change or evolve. People have paid money for this game but ED is not like a Call of Duty game where one buys 20 or 30 hours of fun and that's it. ED for me is better value than this; it is evolving and for better or worse I'll evolve with it or not play it.
I'm probably going to get killed sometime with the improved AI for NPCs or by another player but I'll do my best to avoid that undesirable event.
One thing I did find annoying sometime ago was when I was being continually interdicted. It was annoying because it was just monotonous. But FD sorted it out in the end.
I know about 10% of this game. You know more than me as you do trading whereas I do not, can't be bothered with all those commodities, planning routes, assessing security risks etc.[money]
What a rambling post I've done! Apologies.
See you in the void Commanders!

 

[Raiko]

@Texanhick20, since you mentioned that you are BHing in a Hi-RES, then I'd just recommend teaming up with the authority ships and attacking the same targets as them. Or pick a target, and if it's outmanoeuvring you run over to the authority ships so that they engage the same target.

I normally play in open, but I don't often wing-up and for BH CGs I normally switch to solo and visit a Hi-RES. I've been able to rack up several million very quickly against the new AI by teaming up with the authority ships. When I first arrive at the RES, I normally just leave it for 5-10 minutes for the instance to fill up with NPCs.

I've been flying an Imperial Courier, which is obviously much more manoeuvrable than a python, but it lacks the same firepower and I've mainly been using a single fixed beam laser (I've got 2x MC as well, but I don't normally bother to use them).

The authority ships have had the same AI upgrades as the pirates, so they make very effective "wingmates" and you get the full bounty.

 

[careBear1]

I played elite before 2.1 and loved it. After the patch not so much. It has become more unpleasant than nice for me. I play in solo because I want an easy ride. I like to chose my level of challenge - so that I am having fun. What I do not understand is why, for those who want it, the hard combat is not to be found in open against other human players who are equally good and can adapt in a way the npcs never will without some breakthrough AI programming. Frontier may have decided that the game can no longer accommodate people like me – fine I need to move on. But since combat is a zero sum game and the whole of the play (trading, mining, missions etc) is founded or at least affected by it, I suspect there are more players like me than the 'git gud', make it harder, you have had it too easy brigade might lead you to believe. Mathematically at least half the players (including npcs) must be bad at combat by definition whatever the average level – I think. I guess in the end it is a simple business decision for Frontier about who their target audience is and how to supply what they will buy. Thought experiment for the gid gudders/make it even harder players (no offence intended): make the npcs impossible to beat. Stupid? But this is practically the case for a lot of player as the npcs get better. The game needs to find ways to accommodate a range of combat skills. I think having much better npcs on average may be the wrong way round for the average player and trader to have fun. Perhaps the average npc skill (whatever level that is) needs to be lower and the much better ones spawned in specific combat zones/areas/scenarios instead. So that not all space is polluted by them.

 

[Susanna]

I played elite before 2.1 and loved it. After the patch not so much. It has become more unpleasant than nice for me. I play in solo because I want an easy ride. I like to chose my level of challenge - so that I am having fun. What I do not understand is why, for those who want it, the hard combat is not to be found in open against other human players who are equally good and can adapt in a way the npcs never will without some breakthrough AI programming. Frontier may have decided that the game can no longer accommodate people like me – fine I need to move on. But since combat is a zero sum game and the whole of the play (trading, mining, missions etc) is founded or at least affected by it, I suspect there are more players like me than the 'git gud', make it harder, you have had it too easy brigade might lead you to believe. Mathematically at least half the players (including npcs) must be bad at combat by definition whatever the average level – I think. I guess in the end it is a simple business decision for Frontier about who their target audience is and how to supply what they will buy. Thought experiment for the gid gudders/make it even harder players (no offence intended): make the npcs impossible to beat. Stupid? But this is practically the case for a lot of player as the npcs get better. The game needs to find ways to accommodate a range of combat skills. I think having much better npcs on average may be the wrong way round for the average player and trader to have fun. Perhaps the average npc skill (whatever level that is) needs to be lower and the much better ones spawned in specific combat zones/areas/scenarios instead. So that not all space is polluted by them.

I agree with your conclusion.