Has there ever been Anti-CMDR sentiment in the lore?

CMDRs are a minority in relation to the bubble's population.

But those few CMDRs that do exist, and are active, hold massive power in the galaxy. Most of us are multi-millionaires, with many being multi-billionaires. We fly highly engineered ships, capable of causing massive damage - or support - on a system-wide scale. If we please, factions retreat, expand, go to war, win elections diminish or grow in terms of influence and power. CMDRs are apparently so sought after, an entire reward system exists just to lure us into supporting major powers (PP rewards and merits).

Is this assessment true? In terms to the in-game lore, and I ask because there is something called ludonarrative dissonance, where things that happen during gameplay are not necessary 1:1 true also in the lore.

And if this assessment is true, then has there ever been an anti-CMDR sentiment in certain regions/societies described in the lore? Where we were deemed just too powerful, too disruptive, and too dangerous to society as a whole?
 
Could explain why we never get planet-side vacations...

In all seriousness, I don't think the typical CMDR has much contact with the typical denizen of the galaxy. Unless somebody loses a loved one in a ground operation or because a CMDR decided to blow up a transport for fun, we don't have much direct interaction. When we do, it's probably as the guy delivering your package from space-amazon. The Pilot's Federation is known to be secretive. However petty politics within the PF appears to be rather common, The Elite Federation of Pilots or The Dark Wheel for example.
 
In all seriousness, I don't think the typical CMDR has much contact with the typical denizen of the galaxy. Unless somebody loses a loved one in a ground operation or because a CMDR decided to blow up a transport for fun, we don't have much direct interaction. When we do, it's probably as the guy delivering your package from space-amazon. The Pilot's Federation is known to be secretive. However petty politics within the PF appears to be rather common, The Elite Federation of Pilots or The Dark Wheel for example.

I think there is some Pilot Federation propaganda going on as well:
If you get scanned by a settlement guard and have bounties on you not pertaining to the faction of the settlement, the guard won't attack you, but say: "Aren't you commanders supposed to be lawful?" Or something along the lines. Meaning they at least heard about us being upstanding citizens.

Makes it strangely worse if we never get to interact with the "average Joe/Jane". We are moving their lives to better/worse places simply by toppling controlling factions (i.e. the government). There is Anti-PP sentiment in game: when you flip a system to a new power you get anti-power graffiti in the stations. Weird though that it is directed at the power, and not the CMDRs that brought said power to the system in the first place.

Which either means the Average Joe doesn't know that we are involved, or - in the context of the in-game lore - our contribution to the BGS/PP contribution is just a small part of the overall PP machinations, so that we aren't singularly to blame for the power to arrive here in the eyes of the opposition.
 
You want to make it too realistic

BGS is moved because of player input. That does not mean that in lore a couple of players have a bigger influence than the 150 million (example) inhabitants.
The population does not follow the BGS. They ARE the BGS. So when you turn a system from confederacy into anarchy. The 150 million people have rioted and overthrown the confederacy to put an anarchy in place
 
By DB statements around launch era: all players are part of the pilots federation, all NPCs are not, technically we are not the majority.

The Pilots Federation is then ‘our’ lore. Ironically however, it is one of the most powerful controlling groups in the galaxy, it controls travel, it controls information distribution!

DB also said that Galnet lies, QED it’s filled with propaganda.

There is also the CLUB, and many incentives behind community goals which directly impact the narrative are essentially controlled by FD who use bait/switch tactics to influence where CG fall; so it’s safe to say a lot of what players do in the galaxy is not actually by their own hand?

There is also a large mix of systems controlled by various dictators / anarchy systems, and yes a rather lot of dystopia permeates the game.

So if a player were to always follow the money, believe the propaganda, most then become technically hired mercenaries, grunts or mules. Hired to murder, and facilitate large scale trafficking and money laundering.

Are we the bad guys?

Or simply, is this just poor game design?

Initially pre launch the mechanics were to focus primarily upon PvP co operative play, where fines ect were tailored towards criminal activity against players perpetrated by NPCs.

Credits were few and far between, there also wasn’t much mercenary work, no Power Play, there were only 3 main powers; very few community goals and everything was mostly communicated through in game comms in stations, just a lot of moving things and pirates.

During this period the game got a lot of criticism for being very dull. A mile wide and an inch deep.

Crime and punishment went through a number of changes over the years, as has ship speed and weapons powers.

Station driven news (linked to in game content) slowly died off or ignored outright, then killed off.

Players began to form out of game factions (not supported nor wanted by FD), and some began to work against the BGS, again not an intended mechanic.

At one stage DB said ‘we got it wrong’ identifying the issue that players preferred grind over the intended mechanics, which were for us to focus upon the small factions and move around the galaxy - seeing the ‘mysteries’. Very likely then, over time this might be why we’ve seen an increase in pew-pew driven content.

Then we received Power Play. This was by far the biggest change in galactic power / war management ever. It essentially follows the Roman political power structure ethos. Power through violence/conquest. It’s suspected to have been DB pet project, primarily because he’s a big fan of Roman history.

Of note it was identified pretty early on PP was rigged, eg no one power could win / loose. It was effectively a never ending grind.

Of note circa 2017 it’s suspected that FD went through some kind of internal lore change, certain narratives were shifted, removed altogether, certain key development staff moved around.

Large areas of the game were locked off for the narrative, these still remain locked to this date…

And there’s suspicion through leaks, that the game could have entered into a ‘maintenance mode’ soon after.

This theoretically could identify a narrative shift over the years, and a more simplified ethos of ‘cash’ for guns, give the mob what they want..

Personally I simply believe the game was poorly communicated and sloppy from the outset, and has over the years fallen into a path of least resistance, in an attempt to cater towards market trends.

Personally I role play with an ethos set out as a backer of the ‘original’ game; my Cmdr has a moral (if conflicted) compass. He doesn’t engage with any Power Play, doesn’t engage in criminal enterprises (this makes the game very difficult) and doesn’t engage in the Thargoid (propaganda) nor any other war sim parts of the game. Hes an explorer.

The sentiment identified thus could likely be more a reflection upon general human behaviour than the intended original lore?

Blaze your own trail in the end.

 
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And if this assessment is true, then has there ever been an anti-CMDR sentiment in certain regions/societies described in the lore? Where we were deemed just too powerful, too disruptive, and too dangerous to society as a whole?
Almost certainly, though we don't get told about it.

There is the more general problem that Frontier flip-flops constantly between "life is openly cheap, sci-fi dystopia" and "21st century middle-class society in space", and really can't decide whether players are supposed to only be doing bad things if they're endorsed by the local dictatorship.

BGS is moved because of player input. That does not mean that in lore a couple of players have a bigger influence than the 150 million (example) inhabitants.
The population does not follow the BGS. They ARE the BGS. So when you turn a system from confederacy into anarchy. The 150 million people have rioted and overthrown the confederacy to put an anarchy in place
Yes - I'd read the player's actions as being "representative" actions in universe. Anything a player does, tens to millions of NPCs (depending on system population) are also doing; the player base is deemed to be a representative sample of space pilots in general.
 
There is the more general problem that Frontier flip-flops constantly between "life is openly cheap, sci-fi dystopia" and "21st century middle-class society in space", and really can't decide whether players are supposed to only be doing bad things if they're endorsed by the local dictatorship.
That is also how the official TTRPG lays it out: Corporation, especially the mega-corps like Sirius Inc., are dystopian cyberpunk-esque hellholes you don't want to cross, let alone work at. "Corporate Wage-Slave" is literally a character background you can take.

You want to make it too realistic

BGS is moved because of player input. That does not mean that in lore a couple of players have a bigger influence than the 150 million (example) inhabitants.
The population does not follow the BGS. They ARE the BGS. So when you turn a system from confederacy into anarchy. The 150 million people have rioted and overthrown the confederacy to put an anarchy in place

I don't want to make anything. That was literally my question: how is the fact that we are moving factions around via game-play represented in-universe? Both scenarios here are viable answers:

Scenario 1, is your answer: the 150 million pop shift influence in their own system (maybe with the help of superpowers like the Empire or Feds in the background). The Empire says system A would be great to have, so boosts a local Imperial Patronage to power, and ultimately into conflict with the ruling Indy Cooperative and wins the war. One more system for the Emperor, yay! The fact that a CMDR donated 30m in CR via donations, killed criminals worth 40m bounty vouchers, and salvaged 100t of black boxes through missions is just a side-line event in a wider conflict of the Empire taking over systems from the Indys.

Scenario 2, is another take on it: systems are rather stable - unless events like Draughts, Terrorist Attacks etc. happen - and we as CMDRs drop in, donate 30m credits to our favourite Patronage, kill 40m bounty's worth of pirates in their names, and donate 100t of black boxes from salvage to our favourite Patronage. Said Patronage takes the 30m credits, hires more staff, runs a pro-Empire propaganda campaign on social media touting how the Empire cleans up pirates, and fabricates an outrage with faked black box data on how those vile Indy's have been hunting & killing miners/traders and covering it up. The Indy's call rubbish, discourse heats up, shots are fired, and faster than you can say "Aisling-Feet-Pics" the Imperial Navy swoops in and a war starts. And with the help of a CMDR fighting Indy's in conflict zones, the Empire wins.

Both of these are viable answers to my question. Seeing how the BGS and PP are rather stable without player input, the game-play seems to suggest Scenario 2 is the more likely answer. This scenario is also supported by the fact that we - as CMDRs - are filthy rich, fly immensely powerful ships, have our own carriers, are backed by the Pilot Federation a massively powerful faction in-lore, and mega-corps like Brewer literally let us "architect" our own star systems. But Scenario 1 also happens, since GalNet articles are written and from them FDev god-hands scenarios like Community Goals, new factions (Azimuth Biotech), and even wars between super powers.

But if Scenario 2 is a possibility, some of these 150 million pops must learn at some point that a CMDR showed up and up-ended their status quo. And I suspect they might not be all to happy about it. But as Ian said, we as CMDRs, will probably never hear of it.

"Everything is great.", said the representative of the Imperial Patronage two days after a system-wide violent war that brought them into power.
 
At its base, ED is the space version of a sim racer, in which a collection of cars can be built and used with in-game credits based on some kind of grind for the sheer pleasure of driving the vehicles and using them on a variety of race tracks. While there are no significant coherence or logic problems in the sim racer (in real life, even the richest car collector can only drive one of his fetish objects at a time), the commanders in ED are beyond any expected logic in the overall socio-economic or socio-political context of the galaxy.
It would be logical if an initial lone wolf commander (whether space trucker or mercenary or whatever) were to become a company founder who operates a fleet of ships and hires people to do so. Spaceships are not collector's items but capital goods. Even the best lore can't make the completely absurd and illogical life's work of an ED commander coherent. Going to war with a carrier and a collection of warships as a one-man show? You have to leave out a lot of logic and sense to get that right.

Has there ever been Anti-CMDR sentiment in the lore? Well, the NPCs in the settlements do have a view on the topic: "You're odd!" they say. There's hardly a better way to describe the absurdity of our role in the ED galaxy.
 
I think it's safe to say that the Pilots Federation isn't beloved universally. And neither are it's members.

We aren't the good guys, just a necessary counterforce.
 
That is also how the official TTRPG lays it out: Corporation, especially the mega-corps like Sirius Inc., are dystopian cyberpunk-esque hellholes you don't want to cross, let alone work at. "Corporate Wage-Slave" is literally a character background you can take.
And yet conversely, you have CGs for uneconomical humanitarian deliveries and politicians campaigning (and winning) on bland public service platforms, a stable, consistent and universal financial and legal system with little obvious corruption, concern over a tiny number of people captured by the Thargoids, etc.

It's massively inconsistent in tone from one bit to the next and not always solely in terms of necessary gameplay simplifications.

how is the fact that we are moving factions around via game-play represented in-universe?
Something else I'd add here is that you can if you want consider the accelerated timescale as a gameplay simplification rather than something "real" in-universe.

Colonies can be set up and populated with billions of people in a month, major system-wide wars take less than a week, travel time across the bubble is under an hour, not because that's how long it actually takes but because the in-game clock proceeds a lot faster than the out-of-game clock.
 
And yet conversely, you have CGs for uneconomical humanitarian deliveries and politicians campaigning (and winning) on bland public service platforms, a stable, consistent and universal financial and legal system with little obvious corruption, concern over a tiny number of people captured by the Thargoids, etc.

It's massively inconsistent in tone from one bit to the next and not always solely in terms of necessary gameplay simplifications.

You also have:
  • Mega-Corps sabotaging each other, when Sirius tried to "steal" SCO from Achilles
  • Mega-Corps like Core Dynamics being part of assassinating Federal Presidents (Jasmina Halsey)
  • Mega-Corps doing unethical Thargoid/Human hybridisation experiments (Azimuth)
  • Super-power wide unethical surveillance (Proactive Detection Bureau)
  • Super-power based black sites where "terrorists" are tortured until they actually become terrorists (Theta-7 and Serene Harbour)
  • Slave rebellions crushed by Old Hag Torval
  • An alien worshipping cult that literally "communes" with some Eldritch abomination in witch-space
So yeah, the tone is definitely "all over".

Something else I'd add here is that you can if you want consider the accelerated timescale as a gameplay simplification rather than something "real" in-universe.

Colonies can be set up and populated with billions of people in a month, major system-wide wars take less than a week, travel time across the bubble is under an hour, not because that's how long it actually takes but because the in-game clock proceeds a lot faster than the out-of-game clock.

That is definitely also a case where a disconnect between game-play and lore pops up. Its inconsistent though, since Galnet clearly operates on a yearly 1:1 timescale with the out game one; but 7 day wars kinda don't make sense, as do billions of pops moving within the spawn of a week.

The reason why I ask this - I am planning a new TTRPG campaign for my group. And so far they have never actually met a CMDR, and I have skirted around ever actually bringing up that they exist within the campaigns. But if they ever do, what would Jane Slob running a bar in butt-end system outpost think of them if she was asked about it?
 
The reason why I ask this - I am planning a new TTRPG campaign for my group. And so far they have never actually met a CMDR, and I have skirted around ever actually bringing up that they exist within the campaigns. But if they ever do, what would Jane Slob running a bar in butt-end system outpost think of them if she was asked about it?

Stories. Because Galnet is a highly censored, biased and not always truthful source of news and information. If anything is happening behind the scenes in another system, then a commander who just came from there would be a useful source of knowledge.

People in outposts come from somewhere and their hometown may be many light-years away.
 
Stories. Because Galnet is a highly censored, biased and not always truthful source of news and information. If anything is happening behind the scenes in another system, then a commander who just came from there would be a useful source of knowledge.

People in outposts come from somewhere and their hometown may be many light-years away.

Would you - per chance - have a direct reference to when GalNet lied? So I could use it as an example in the game to point to?
Or does anyone else know a direct instance when GalNet lied?
 
Or does anyone else know a direct instance when GalNet lied?
Galnet I don't think actually lies, though we'd have little way to tell in most cases if it did. I can't recall any case where it made a statement that was verifiable by other means and wasn't at the very least "correct at the time of going to press"

It truthfully reports "X said <false statement>" probably more times than "X said <true statement>" but that's a slightly different matter.


EDIT: though also, non-CMDRs probably don't read Galnet as such - they'll read the Federal Times or the Imperial Herald or Vox Galactica or something like that.
 
Gameplay rapidly and dramatically divorced itself from the lore pretty early on. Quite a few Elitisms proved difficult to implement, or impossible to enforce, and failing to adapt the lore to the game and vice versa is one of the reasons internal consistency is shot to hell.

I'm not a lore expert and I don't recall mention of significant anti-CMDR sentiment, but I consider it almost a given that CMDRs who get caught wandering anywhere outside of those well-surveilled station concourses tend to disappear. There is no way the rest of the galaxy doesn't utterly despise PF members, given what our CMDRs do to them. It's one of the reasons I was so disappointed in the on-foot sprint duration...I figured any CMDR that survived more than a rank or two must be proficient in outrunning torch and pitchfork wielding lynch mobs on a fairly regular basis.
 
There is no way the rest of the galaxy doesn't utterly despise PF members,
I could certainly tell you that if I had a character who originates from an ordinary civilian background in the universe, they'd have a word or two to say about them, in particular the behavior which routinely occurs around Odyssey-style settlements where everyone ends up dead because "Well, this engineer guy/person wanted those materials for an upgrade and they can be found here". I personally make it a point not to engage in such activities myself (though there has been one roleplay-motivated, rare exception, directed at Azimuth), while fully aware this is going to be an exception rather than the norm among PF members. At least if we're to believe the presentation in Odyssey...

... and the comparative lack of legal consequences for them also speaks to itself. Killed a couple dozen civilians? Here's a slap on the wrist and some credits to pay that you don't really care about lacking, plus a small detour to a prison ship that releases you again immediately (although that latter part could just be gameplay).
concern over a tiny number of people captured by the Thargoids
Just headcanon, of course, but I personally explained this one away to myself with the assumption/guess that this was Tesreau's personal project/concern and the superpowers probably went "Yeah, sure, why not" while shrugging because they can make a good bit of PR out of it and don't care too much otherwise. The Empire is certainly still keeping their rescued captives locked up, and - so far as we know - the Feds too, despite Winters' promise to set them free.

It can be argued whether the latter is Frontier dropping 99.9% of story support some time during the last 2-ish years by firing all their writers besides one or two (what it feels like anyway), or actually meant to be part of the lore. I'm looking back at the increasingly ridiculous ways of keeping the presidential inauguration away for the PP2 launch here.
 
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