Hauler buff - Increase class three compartments to class four?

[clinton]

Just saw this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nApQM_o4Mfo here and thought to myself maybe the Hauler needs a buff. It's not much cheaper than the Adder which has more cargo space, more weapons, more optional internals, more everything basically.

I initially thought expanding one of the class 3 compartments to class 4 would be helpful, but it would still not carry much more than the Adder.

I think it's best to increase both the class 3 compartments to class 4. However, have the ship come with class 2 cargo racks in those compartments by default as it currently does. I don't think this change is OP for a number of reasons:

1. Upgrading to class 4 cargo racks costs 60k total, which is a significant expense greater than base price of the ship.
2. The jump range of a fully laden E-rated Hauler with class 4 cargo racks is only a tad over 5LY.
3. The jump range of a fully laden D-rated Hauler with class 4 cargo racks isn't even 7LY.

However, with this change, the Hauler becomes a ship with a bit more longevity. Instead of being replaced almost immediately by the Adder, it has a place all the way up to the Cobra. However, that involves significant expense (at least relative to it's base price) in upgrading its cargo racks and also its FSD. There's a bit more of a trade off early players face, do they go for a pure cargo ship for extra space or the extra offensive power of the Adder? (if they're not going the Eagle->Viper combat route that is)

I also think the Type 9 needs an extra class 8 rack (entirely new) which would bring it's cargo space on par with the Cutter, and the Type 7 needs a fighter bay (as a non military locked fighter ship between the Keelback and the Type 9) but they're somewhat separate arguments.

 

[Riverside]

Everyone knows the fastest vehicle on the motorway is a white van. If the Hauler needs a buff it's to it's boost speed

In these small ships I can imagine space to be at a premium & there may not be enough room for a class 4 internal compartment. The Adder isn't much bigger or more expensive but at the beginning of the game the price difference is significant compared to income (where cargo space is a factor).

Similarly with the T-9, I find it difficult to get behind the idea that there is room for a whole extra class 8 compartment. It doesn't need to compete with the Cutter anyway, it's a cheap alternative to the Conda. The Cutter is rank locked.

 

[clinton]

Everyone knows the fastest vehicle on the motorway is a white van. If the Hauler needs a buff it's to it's boost speed

Probably not a bad idea, as the class 4 compartments when packed will add a bit of extra mass. I'd keep the increases to speed, and not increase it's maneuverability. It is a van like you said, after all. An unloaded Hauler should be faster than an Adder, but a full loaded on with 32T in the hold, not much faster if not slower.

In these small ships I can imagine space to be at a premium & there may not be enough room for a class 4 internal compartment. The Adder isn't much bigger or more expensive but at the beginning of the game the price difference is significant compared to income (where cargo space is a factor).

The Hauler isn't much physically smaller than the Adder and has much smaller components, for example only needing the equipment to support one small hardpoint (whereas the Adder needs equipment internally to support 3). It's essentially an empty box. The idea that it could fit two class 4 compartments I don't think is unreasonable. The Hauler is also physically larger than the Viper. If the Hauler isn't full of cargo space what's in that box?!

Similarly with the T-9, I find it difficult to get behind the idea that there is room for a whole extra class 8 compartment. It doesn't need to compete with the Cutter anyway, it's a cheap alternative to the Conda. The Cutter is rank locked.

There's plenty of room in the Type 9 for another class 8 compartment. It's volume is clearly greater than the Cutter. A better question is "how does the Cutter fit two size 8 compartments?!" The Type 9 only barely competes with the Anaconda on cargo trading now, you get a bit more space but you're much slower jumping and docking, so it's pretty close, and for that you have to give up a lot and only for a modest reduction in price (around 35%). The Type 9 should easily beat the Anaconda for trading, that's what it's designed for.

 

[Riverside]

If you are basing your ideas on practical measurements then yes, that undermines my less researched 'doesn't seem right'

The T-9 has always seemed a needlessly large & heavy vessel considering it's capabilities, but I take that to be because it's a cheap workhorse made from lots of lower strength materials rather than something more high-tech on a 'premium' boat. Like fibreglass vs carbon composite, or cast iron vs aluminium alloy in cars.

In terms of where it fits in the game, I agree a buffed Hauler could be more useful to the experienced player (I have an engineered taxi hauler that is awesome for getting around & cheap to relocate) but the balance of the low tier ships is more based around early progress in the game & I feel FDev did a good job here.

Ships like the hauler (and Adder, Eagle, Sidewinder) are great starter ships, and are already good enough to maintain interest later in the game (ie go back to them). My main reservation about rebalancing them is simply that I think they are already pretty well balanced & any tweak would be likely to upset that.

Certainly wouldn't be against buffing the Hauler in general, I just think it would need to be a small adjustment, carefully considering how it affects early gameplay rather than a pair of seasoned Cmdrs like us

 

[clinton]

Certainly wouldn't be against buffing the Hauler in general, I just think it would need to be a small adjustment, carefully considering how it affects early gameplay rather than a pair of seasoned Cmdrs like us

It doesn't unbalance early gameplay that much, as you still have to spend a lot of credits to actually use the larger compartments, both on the compartment itself and the frame shift drive. It just gives the Hauler a bit more longevity, which is easier for the devs to implement than creating a new cargo ship in the low 6 figures between the Hauler and the Type 6.

 

[Morbad]

None of the lowest tier ships need any changes, in my opinion.

 

[tekran]

I've not been playing ED very long, but I tend to agree that the Hauler is a bit on the slim side of viable. I really want to like the little ship, but it's got no real niche other than as a starter cargo transport for the impatient or eccentric. It seems you're best served by just skipping it entirely and using an Eagle or an Adder.

I understand the arguments against enlarging/adding slots, but adding a single class-1 optional internal slot would add a huge amount of diversity to the little ship and allow it to act competently as a micro-miner while minimizing cargo capacity increase. Maybe the added slot could be restricted to mining gear (refinery, limpet controllers) if the potential 2 tons extra cargo capacity is a balance concern?

As it stands, look at the other starter ships and what they do in mining and ask if a single class-1 optional internal (potentially restricted) would greatly unbalance the Hauler in relation to the game and other ships near it's class:

• Sidewinder
• Hauler
• Eagle
• Adder