Have Oculus/Facebook dropped the ball?

[[VR] Mad Mike]

according the the VIVE presentation last week a while away. Their point being, wireless is already a mature technology, and so massive advances overnight are not expected.

everything VR related IS new, and so we can expect rapid improvement over the next few years. Right now he said, wireless may (in theory) "just" about manage to cope with the bandwidth for a gen 1 HMD..... but going forward with 2 or 4 k screens at 100hz+ it just is not feasible.

he pretty much confirmed what oculus have been saying. the long term solution to wireless VR is by having the compute built into the HMD, which is how oculus see the future as well, and why they are spending a lot of time on phone VR. Sure it is limited for now, but 5 years from now, a phone will likely be feasible for decent VR. (with a cable needed to charge )

 

[VR Cmdr Paine]

I was really lucky to get a standing HTC Vive Demo @EGX

Okay so I was really lucky to get a standing HTC Vive Demo @EGX on Sunday morning. (I also demoed ED in the VIVE).

I've had a DK2 for a year, (I love it wouldn't want to part with it or play ED without it) so therefore I wasn't expecting too much of an improvement apart from the controllers with the VIVE,

But no the VIVE BLEW my SOCKS OFF! and I think they are still floating down at EGX .
I had 15 minutes of constant presence once I was handed the controllers in VR which is surreal (like being plugged into the matrix) because they are mind-bogglingly accurate and intuitive and are I think the source of a lot of the feeling I got of "being there".
Also the scale of things was incredible and i have a high IPD 70.4 but didnt have any blurring etc.

So when A 6-7ft tall robot walked into my "room" during the portal demo at the end I got out of its way without even thinking about it by that point my brain was totally fooled,
it feels a day later, like a dream sequence not a series of demos (my fav was tiltbrush its so accurate).
And this from a Dev kit?? I have high hopes for the retail release.

IMO great VR NEEDS great hand controllers not a Xbox controller (most of us PC gamers have one already), Oculus IMO have already missed the boat not going room scale as an option from the start and could be perceived as an inferior product which could cause them long term damage, because first impressions last.

And besides Oculus shouldn't be holding back VR by not including Hand controllers+extra camera (you don't have to use them but they should be there regardless of cost) when they have been pushing VR forward for so long.

Ps. yes i will get a VIVE for sure but I'm not writing off Oculus just yet But i am a bit worried for them after what I Experienced. (and yes I know you will say I cant compare DK2 with the Vive but it doesn't change the fact the CV1 does not include controllers).

PPs. kids today are so lucky to have all this VR stuff coming /shakes fist
But I'm just glad to have been around long enough to see the dawn of a new age of entertainment/learning/communication etc the future's going to be amazing if we don't blow ourselves up .

TLDR- VIVE BLEW MY SOCKS OFF oculus may have missed the boat.

PPPs. Walking around after the VIVE experience looking at all the 2D gaming going on it seemed positively stone age

 

[ranix]

Wow the rubbish is knee deep in this thread ! Misinformation is a total understatement. Oculus have not abandoned PC and no plans to do such a thing, they are heavily invested. CV1 of Rift will be a rather large surprise to those prematurely believing HTC Valve have taken the number one spot in the race for VR supremacy. Ripleys believe it or not !

if Oculus was heavily invested in PC they wouldn't be talking smack about Valve

 

[Yololo69]

Great feedback CMDR Paine. Just a question : how did you handle the cable from the headset to the PC, it was OK? annoying? did you think about it during the experience or completely forget it? I'm asking as the only video I saw with a woman making the demo let me see they spent lot of time dealing with the cable, searching it to push it away, etc. This is one of my main problem with standing and VR currently (with DK2)...

 

[VR Cmdr Paine]

Great feedback CMDR Paine. Just a question : how did you handle the cable from the headset to the PC, it was OK? annoying? did you think about it during the experience or completely forget it? I'm asking as the only video I saw with a woman making the demo let me see they spent lot of time dealing with the cable, searching it to push it away, etc. This is one of my main problem with standing and VR currently (with DK2)...

Thanks Yololo69 As for the cable i was conscious of it maybe a couple of times but my brain just kinda dealt with it I think on a sub-conscious level (not sure if i was getting help from the demo'er) But it didn't ruin the experience for me I've heard others say the same, ofc it would be better without it
but that's 3-5 years away with current wireless bandwidth limitations
I have been thinking maybe a pull out arm on the headset might be a good idea to drop the cable a 6-12 inches away from you or maybe an arm on the back of your belt/trousers/skirt.

 

[Yololo69]

Thanks CMDR Paine

IMO They should put some markers on the cable for the first meters (2m should be enough) so Application/Games can display the exact cable position in VR, lightly, nearly using transparency (optional, user choice) and you'll be able to move it around in VR and in real worl It could also be justified if the player have, in game, also a wired device on his head? Ok, it's late, forget this immersion breaker

 

[callezetter]

What's the current thinking on how long we will have to wait for wireless VR HMDs?

5 years? Noone really knows, since there is no current wireless technology that is good enough with bandwidth (uncompressed 1440p90 need 7.4Gbit/s) and latency wile keeping power low enough.
If you compress the stream an decode it you ADD around 30ms, wich is far too high for VR. So its very much up in the air.

Here is a great writeup on the current problem with wireless and VR:
https://goo.gl/VfXZu4

 

[Oheck]

Yeah, I think right now, we are better off working on clever ways to keep the cord away from our feet.

 

[Balmung]

What's the current thinking on how long we will have to wait for wireless VR HMDs?

10+ Years. Why? Because a higher resolution at the display is more important than wireless (until we have over 4K - best 8K). But higher resolution means also more data to transfer and so better resolution brakes wireless out because of latency. And the best latency for VR is zero latency, with wireless you have automatically a much more higher latency.

 

[Yololo69]

Soon for VR Wireless. Latency is acceptable on some amount for input devices. We currently have latency when using a wheel in our favorite simracing game or our X52 in ED. Biggest problem of VR is the display which must follow your eyes and head movement instantly. So the solution could be to have all graphic management inside the VR device, so including its own graphic cards solution. So all graphics, timewarp, positionnal tracking etc. will be handled directly inside the device. The game, streaming the worlds, managing input devices, etc. can be managed through wireless and the computer as it will have no more latency that currently (small amount of data to transfer). All that will come far before 10 years IMO.

 

[Balmung]

Latency on VR is not comparable with Latency of normal input devices. You underrate VR Latency.

But you could have right with a build in graphic card, but that also need years or the VR MHD get too big and too heavy. Don't forget that wireless also means we need Akku's to power the VR HMD and than comes the biggest problem: the runtime until the Akku's are empty. A highend graphic card needs much power and the rest of the hardware like the than used 4K+ Displays in the VR HMD too.

No, you can make it this way, but that didn't mean wireless comes earlier.

 

[callezetter]

I think mobile/standalone VR performance will get up to "good enough" before a practical wireless technical solution catch up.

 

[Yololo69]

Microsoft Hololens is already a full all-in-one computer inside the device. No need any connection with a computer, power supply, etc. Off course, AR and VR have not the same CPU/GPU demand, but that's a pretty near future IMHO.

 

[callezetter]

I have a hard time imagining ED in AR tho
And hololens have their own issues with fov. I think a workable hololens is still 1+ year away for any practical use.