Heat Build-up and Mist Over Planets

[Ceitidh]

Limited as we are to landing on airless worlds, I wondered whether anyone could explain a couple of odd phenomena for me.

First is the odd mist I keep seeing over certain worlds, which confuses me since the bodies in question have no atmosphere -- so what's the mist suspended in?

I'm sure there's a way to make that image smaller but I've no idea what it is.

Also, second question: while I'm over a planet at low speed (i.e. glide is complete), how and why does my ship build up heat pulling turns that, in space, wouldn't affect it at all? It clearly isn't friction, because there's no atmosphere, and gravity is unlikely to be the cause as the turns I'm pulling in space likely generate enough of that to easily offset the tiny gravity of most of the worlds we can land on. Anybody got any ideas?

(Also also: 'Glide'? What're we gliding through, anyway?)

Was it monkeys? Terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Limited as we are to landing on airless worlds, I wondered whether anyone could explain a couple of odd phenomena for me.

First is the odd mist I keep seeing over certain worlds, which confuses me since the bodies in question have no atmosphere -- so what's the mist suspended in?

https://goo.gl/4DxCZQ
I'm sure there's a way to make that image smaller but I've no idea what it is.

Also, second question: while I'm over a planet at low speed (i.e. glide is complete), how and why does my ship build up heat pulling turns that, in space, wouldn't affect it at all? It clearly isn't friction, because there's no atmosphere, and gravity is unlikely to be the cause as the turns I'm pulling in space likely generate enough of that to easily offset the tiny gravity of most of the worlds we can land on. Anybody got any ideas?

Your ship gets hot because you have those cheap Sol lights and tree plugged in.

 

[xondk]

I can't remember what the phenomenon is called right on the top of my head but it is basically volatile chemicals that create these mists under the right conditions, it is a real thing that does happen.

 

[Hellakitty]

I can't remember what the phenomenon is called right on the top of my head but it is basically volatile chemicals that create these mists under the right conditions, it is a real thing that does happen.

Outgassing.

 

[xondk]

Outgassing.

There is that too, but this is called something slightly more specific nature of craters and such.

 

[2Karl]

Outgassing.

My brother's good at that

 

[Clifra Jones]

Limited as we are to landing on airless worlds, I wondered whether anyone could explain a couple of odd phenomena for me.

First is the odd mist I keep seeing over certain worlds, which confuses me since the bodies in question have no atmosphere -- so what's the mist suspended in?

https://goo.gl/4DxCZQ
I'm sure there's a way to make that image smaller but I've no idea what it is.

Also, second question: while I'm over a planet at low speed (i.e. glide is complete), how and why does my ship build up heat pulling turns that, in space, wouldn't affect it at all? It clearly isn't friction, because there's no atmosphere, and gravity is unlikely to be the cause as the turns I'm pulling in space likely generate enough of that to easily offset the tiny gravity of most of the worlds we can land on. Anybody got any ideas?

(Also also: 'Glide'? What're we gliding through, anyway?)

Was it monkeys? Terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?

Glide is basically getting from the point where you come out of OC to where using your thrusters is useful. Your "gliding" down towards the surface with thrusters off so you don't slow down too soon and have a long trip to your destination.

One thing I have noticed is if you glide to steeply you will generate heat. Why? Don't know, as you say there is no atmosphere.

 

[Janichsan]

Limited as we are to landing on airless worlds, I wondered whether anyone could explain a couple of odd phenomena for me.

First is the odd mist I keep seeing over certain worlds, which confuses me since the bodies in question have no atmosphere -- so what's the mist suspended in?

https://goo.gl/4DxCZQ

"No atmosphere" is a very relative term. A real word example: Pluto has an atmospheric pressure of 10 µbar. That would be a pretty good vacuum here on Earth. And yet, its atmosphere is clearly visible as hazy mist surrounding the planet.

Also, second question: while I'm over a planet at low speed (i.e. glide is complete), how and why does my ship build up heat pulling turns that, in space, wouldn't affect it at all? It clearly isn't friction, because there's no atmosphere, and gravity is unlikely to be the cause as the turns I'm pulling in space likely generate enough of that to easily offset the tiny gravity of most of the worlds we can land on. Anybody got any ideas?

The heat stems from your thrusters having to work against the planets' gravity.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

The heat stems from your thrusters having to work against the planets' gravity.

Since high gravity planets cause your ship to generate the most heat, it's important to turn your shields off when landing on high G planets (*)







* Do NOT do this!

 

[Morbad]

Mist and dust aren't gasses and aren't atmosphere.

You ventral thrusters are the only one's that are intended to counteract gravity. If you pitch or roll more than 10-20 degrees or so you put extra strain on your other thrusters, which causes extra heat. You can even damage or destroy your ship if it's lateral and dorsal thrusters are too weak relative to gravity and you have FA on.

 

[imski]

Sublimation

 

[Ceitidh]

Your ship gets hot because you have those cheap Sol lights and tree plugged in.

DO NOT DISS THE FAIRY LIGHTS. They are non-negotiable.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Glide is basically getting from the point where you come out of OC to where using your thrusters is useful. Your "gliding" down towards the surface with thrusters off so you don't slow down too soon and have a long trip to your destination.

One thing I have noticed is if you glide to steeply you will generate heat. Why? Don't know, as you say there is no atmosphere.

The thrusters are on while gliding, which provides great screenshot opportunities.

I'd imagine while exiting SC into glide you carry some of the momentum (hence the blue tunnel) but you are kinda in normal space. It is greta mechanics to get to the surface in reasonable time.

 

[Ziljan]

First is the odd mist I keep seeing over certain worlds, which confuses me since the bodies in question have no atmosphere -- so what's the mist suspended in?

The mist is a volatile surface that is turned into a thin temporary atmosphere that is suspended in itself by brownian motion (eg heating turns the vaporized molecules into little billiard balls that whack against each other and propel each other apart and upward).

Also, second question: while I'm over a planet at low speed (i.e. glide is complete), how and why does my ship build up heat pulling turns that, in space, wouldn't affect it at all?

Even on small g planets the thrusters are always on auto-pilot to resist gravity regardless of whatever else you are doing. Doing so apparently increases the background heat load on your ship. When you add extra maneuvers to this that alter the momentum of the ship, the lifting thrust needs to work that much harder to keep you aloft, especially if your ship isn't level (which is the most economical way to stay aloft).

You can verify this by turning FAoff and performing the same maneuvers. Notice how your ship suddenly runs much cooler. You can use this same trick in normal space (eg away from planets) to avoid your engines overheating while course-correcting your ship with a hot running build.

(Also also: 'Glide'? What're we gliding through, anyway?)

No idea, some sci-fi placeholder for atmospheric re-entry most likely. My best sci-fi guess is that mass disrupts normal FSD fields, including the supercruise "warp bubble". This is likely because space-time is warped both in the supercruise bubble and from the gravity field. Perhaps the glide is a safety shut down to ensure that you don't whack into a planet or enter normal uncurved space-time resulting in crushing/stretching/deforming momentum being abruptly added to your body's mass vector.

 

[Ceitidh]

Since high gravity planets cause your ship to generate the most heat, it's important to turn your shields off when landing on high G planets (*)

* Do NOT do this!

Oooh, if not for that footnote I'd call you a terrible, terrible villain, Carnegie, I really would.

Mist and dust aren't gasses and aren't atmosphere.

That's true, but they still need to be suspended in, or constantly and evenly disturbed by, something, otherwise the water or dust particles would fall to the ground at the appropriate acceleration for the local gravity.

You ventral thrusters are the only one's that are intended to counteract gravity. If you pitch or roll more than 10-20 degrees or so you put extra strain on your other thrusters, which causes extra heat. You can even damage or destroy your ship if it's lateral and dorsal thrusters are too weak relative to gravity and you have FA on.

The heat stems from your thrusters having to work against the planets' gravity.

If I saw the same effects while manoeuvring in space, I'd buy that. But I don't. No matter how much I pull my ship around in open space, there's no heating effect -- or at least, none that I've been able to make out. Gravity is acceleration: if I'm pulling, say, five Gs over the surface of a planet with a surface gravity of 0.15G, especially if the surface gravity is pulling me from the side (as I'm often banking fairly hard when I notice this effect) it's not going to produce a significantly greater stress on the spaceframe or the engines than if I pull five G in a turn in open space where the gravity gradient is much shallower (especially considering that ED models gravity fairly clunkily in comparison with FE2 and FFE).

"No atmosphere" is a very relative term. A real word example: Pluto has an atmospheric pressure of 10 µbar. That would be a pretty good vacuum here on Earth. And yet, its atmosphere is clearly visible as hazy mist surrounding the planet.

That's a fair point, and I could accept that. In which case, it's not that we're limited to airless planets -- it's that we're limited to a given pressure. Which in any case raises questions in my mind about how we can get so close to stars or bounce through neutron star jets without our delicate little ships collapsing like matchstick models in an elephant stampede, but let it be.

I'll be honest (with the necessary disclaimer that I love ED and spend a lot of my free time playing it): part of this is motivated by a general sense of grumpiness that FDev chose not to implement planetary landings even to the 1995 standard of First Encounters, but then they want to throw in pretty atmospheric effects on the worlds they've told me I can only land on because they have no atmosphere.

It's like they want to have their space cakes and eat them.

Space cakes. Yum.

 

[Wasp0]

Limited as we are to landing on airless worlds, I wondered whether anyone could explain a couple of odd phenomena for me.

First is the odd mist I keep seeing over certain worlds, which confuses me since the bodies in question have no atmosphere -- so what's the mist suspended in?

https://goo.gl/4DxCZQ
I'm sure there's a way to make that image smaller but I've no idea what it is.

Also, second question: while I'm over a planet at low speed (i.e. glide is complete), how and why does my ship build up heat pulling turns that, in space, wouldn't affect it at all? It clearly isn't friction, because there's no atmosphere, and gravity is unlikely to be the cause as the turns I'm pulling in space likely generate enough of that to easily offset the tiny gravity of most of the worlds we can land on. Anybody got any ideas?

(Also also: 'Glide'? What're we gliding through, anyway?)

Was it monkeys? Terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?

Sir,(Madam) do you not know it is EXTREMELY bad luck to have Christmas decorations up after 12th Night (Jan 5th/6th, dependant).

So Unless you want your all bad things to happen to your commander and ship(s), advise you take them down immediately

 

[GunnerBill]

Outgassing.

It's nothing, don't worry about it.

 

[Ceitidh]

Sir,(Madam) do you not know it is EXTREMELY bad luck to have Christmas decorations up after 12th Night (Jan 5th/6th, dependant).

So Unless you want your all bad things to happen to your commander and ship(s), advise you take them down immediately

Is that right? I thought it was just that you took them down when you'd sobered up.

You learn something every day.

 

[Ceitidh]

The mist is a volatile surface that is turned into a thin temporary atmosphere that is suspended in itself by brownian motion (eg heating turns the vaporized molecules into little billiard balls that whack against each other and propel each other apart and upward).

It'll do.

And I'm very familiar with Brownian motion. It's the principle that determines the movement of people in the supermarket when I only want like three things and know exactly where they all are.

You can verify this by turning FAoff and performing the same maneuvers. Notice how your ship suddenly runs much cooler. You can use this same trick in normal space (eg away from planets) to avoid your engines overheating while course-correcting your ship with a hot running build.

I certainly don't recall noticing it in open space; but I'll take your word for it and have a closer look next time I fly.

No idea, some sci-fi placeholder for atmospheric re-entry most likely. My best sci-fi guess is that mass disrupts normal FSD fields, including the supercruise "warp bubble". This is likely because space-time is warped both in the supercruise bubble and from the gravity field. Perhaps the glide is a safety shut down to ensure that you don't whack into a planet or enter normal uncurved space-time resulting in crushing/stretching/deforming momentum being abruptly added to your body's mass vector.

It's as reasonable a hypothesis as any. I suppose there's no telling what weirdness will result from these things. Again, I it relates to the difficulty I still have adapting to what feels like a much trekkier*, sci-fi bog-standard way of getting around than the interesting and original ideas they had for the witchdrives in FE2 and FFE.

* I like Star Trek, BTW, I'm not slating it. It's just that in Trek getting around has to be relatively trivial for narrative purposes (although even then I recall they had to find a plot-device reason to get ships to slow down by imposing a Warp 5 speed limit at one point. Not that it seemed to make much difference to subsequent plotlines am I digressing? Is this what digressing is?

Thanks for the replies, everyone, in case I've otherwise forgotten to say it. Also, thanks for any replies that haven't been made yet, in case I forget to say that later, too.

 

[StiTch]

If I saw the same effects while manoeuvring in space, I'd buy that. But I don't. No matter how much I pull my ship around in open space, there's no heating effect

The physics of ED are heavily inconsistent because of a certain amount of physics rulebreaking to facilitate gameplay. However, I can confirm that certain scenarios generate heat when FA On above a planet, though generally it's more prominent taking off. In some instances the heat buildup will push you over 100% in seconds.

To be fair it's the physics breaks that allow you to take off from a 9G planet even with weak thrusters, rather than the more correct "get squashed into a pancake because you ventured near the planet".