Ship Builds & Load Outs Heat management in exploration

StiTch

StiTch
Good afternoon folks of Elite

So I've been upsetting the local Python owners for some time now, and my pilot (not me!) wants to see the sights, and do it properly.

Because I don't have annie type money, and wouldn't make an explorer of it if I did have one, I'm looking at asp vs. DBE.

Asp has largely been considered the second top dog when looking at stats on paper thanks to the jump range, internal space and awesome sounding engines (and you thought I had a legit third reason).

On the other hand, heat management isn't mentioned much in exploration outside of how easy it is to fuel scoop. As it happens I've done two test builds in Coriolis (see below) for pretty specialised exploring, and actually the jump range isn't a tragic drop off at all in the DBE at just under 1LY less, and the only drawbacks from there involve slower scooping and less AFM space.

But I know how awesome the DBE is for heat management. Aside from making scooping easier, which is nullified by the Asp's more hench fuel scoop, how important is heat management?

I'm well aware of the tales of explorers FSDing into binary star systems and the like that cause dropout and damage almost immediately on jump in, but would be interested to see how much of this is attributed to heat management. If the DBE takes half the damage the asp will, the AFMs can go to hell and I can go exploring in a ship that looks better to my eyes (I know some people think it looks ridiculous) and won't sound like a 1950's fighter aircraft with engine problems.

Builds:
http://coriolis.io/outfit/diamondback_explorer/02A4D5A3D3D3D5C-------320o432i2f.AwRj4zTI.Aw1-kA==
http://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/02A4D5A4D3D5D5C----------3e0t430j0j2i2f.AwRj49Slmo==.Aw18WQ==

^I'm aware the Asp can fit a 6A fuel scoop, but I'll be damned if I am spending 26 odd mill on a fuel scoop. Also no, I won't organise my priorities like a man...I'll do that when I buy the damn ship and can be bothered.
 

Ceekay

Ceekay
First off I'm not a serious explorer I occasionally take 2k LY trip outside the bubble in a armed Asp (around 28 LY range), I've never had heat issues using a 5C scoop (77 sec fill) and I'm running a lot more gear than a normal exploration ship, I think an AFMU really only becomes necessary on 20000 + LY expeditions.

http://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/05A5A...02v6242i2f.AwRj4yvI.Aw19gjNkkA==?bn=Asp Ex 6D

The DB ship range does run cool but the DBE's lack of internals is one of it's biggest drawbacks, if you've got Horizons you'll want to fit an SRV and at least one AFMU (2 if you're going 40000 + LY) you need an Asp to be able to fit this equipment.

I reckon heat damage will get you at some point no matter what ship you run, I had a cool running Python trader over 160% a few days ago, just dropped into a trinary system and was cooking before the scan finished, it lost a few % on the modules but nothing serious perhaps a heat sink might have helped but they do take some time to activate and drop.

I'd suggest you pick a ship you like as you'll be stuck in it for quite a while even on a short expedition.
 

StiTch

StiTch
Ceekay said:
I'd suggest you pick a ship you like as you'll be stuck in it for quite a while even on a short expedition.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. As it happens, this bit here is why the post is up. I like doing things properly, but I like enjoying it; and while I would sooner see the DBE leave the game than the Asp, there's something about Asp handling that feels wrong to me.

I have a ship for gathering resources, so SRVs aren't an issue - the only concerns I have with the internal module space on the DBE is much much less AFMs and a smaller scoop.

I'll probably make a rational choice on the asp because of the AFMs and as I am about to do the deal impulse buy a DBE instead ;)
 
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Alex Brentnall

Alex Brentnall
Howdy,

Having been through around 15,000 systems in my travels I'd consider myself a mid-high end explorer (there are some with 50,000+ systems) o_O

Binaries, Trinaries etc are very rare. Generally they can be avoided with the use of a single heat sink, worst case 2. Probably 1 in every 2000 jumps or so.
Heat properties are useful if you like to faceplant stars since a better profile will allow you to take less damage when escaping to supercruise, any ship can easily avoid this if flown right :)


Asp trumps DBE on internals in a big way. Having 2 AFMU's means one can repair the other.
DBE is not suited to landing (Shield and hangar required). Quite simply put you have 7 desirable exploration modules, the Asp has 7 slots, the DBE has 5.

Edit: Also Asp is better than a Conda for exploring planets, Conda can just get places quicker, Asp has favourable handling in supercruise.
 
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mls

mls
Having 2 AFMUs is a waste of internals since your PP or Hull are down to 0% long before that one AFMU will kick it. I use the ASP for very long range exploration where i fit it with shields, scoop, hangar(s) and both sensors.
The DBE can fit all those as well except for the AFMU, but in fact you wont need an AFMU if you only go a few 10k lys out on shorter explorations. In both cases, heat management isn't an issue and when it is (jumping in close to binaries) it won't matter what ship you fly. They will all cook.
 

Alex Brentnall

Alex Brentnall
mls said:
Having 2 AFMUs is a waste of internals since your PP or Hull are down to 0% long before that one AFMU will kick it. I use the ASP for very long range exploration where i fit it with shields, scoop, hangar(s) and both sensors.
The DBE can fit all those as well except for the AFMU, but in fact you wont need an AFMU if you only go a few 10k lys out on shorter explorations. In both cases, heat management isn't an issue and when it is (jumping in close to binaries) it won't matter what ship you fly. They will all cook.
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I see what you mean on the AFMU but I have OCD. Also more AFMU's mean faster life support repairing so less O2 lost to repairs. <- Minor but if you are in a big ship like the Anaconda you may as well since they are weightless and you will have spare internals.

DBS/DBE with non-essential turned off can tank a binary pretty effectively, drop out and charge hyperspace instead of trying to SC away. Other ships can't hyperspace that close without burning. Especially not a Python or similar non-optimised ship.
 

SMcA

SMcA
StiTch said:
I'm aware the Asp can fit a 6A fuel scoop, but I'll be damned if I am spending 26 odd mill on a fuel scoop.
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Money well spent IMO.
You can refuel from further out and at a lower temperature. Refueling is much faster, you don't have to stop to fill 'er up. An explorer's best friend after the ADS. ;)
 

Dad Rock

Dad Rock
A bit late commenting here, but I hope this might be useful if you're still curious. Personally I haven't tried the DBE, but I do have experience with the ASP explorer as I'm currently on a trip to Sagittarius A* (currently 6500LY away). The ASP is a great ship for exploring, handles really well, but in terms of heat management I find it lacking.

My routine while exploring now is to kick off the Discovery Scan while re-positioning myself for the next job and simultaneously scooping. Buying a 6A fuel scoop is one of the best things I could have done. It refuels faster than anything else I've seen and, when timed right, finishes just as the FSD drive cools down. Unfortunately, if I initiate FSD while the temperature is still above 61%, sparks and alarms go off and I see a few percentage points shaved off the modules. Once I'm around the 110% temperature warning I risk getting hull damage. At one point I lost illegal survey caches I'd picked up from USSes when my ship was only at 74% temperature and my cargo hold malfunctioned. I know for a fact that my old Hauler handled far higher temperatures without any reported damage. Incidentally, I know someone who joined the Great Expedition and routinely goes all the way to Beagle point with one (it might be another option for you to explore).

So now I usually wait until the Fuel Scoop disengages before kicking off FSD. You might say I could use that time to scan my System Map, but I like to use the FSD charging time to check the map for valuables. So I have this short period of lost time in between jumps where I end up tapping my fingers. It's not a big thing, and other players might not mind it, but I find it to be a nuisance. First chance I get when I'm back in the bubble, I'd like to give the DBE a try and see how well it handles this exploration routine.
 
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Eloy

Eloy
EUS said:
Heat is not an issue in the Asp when you run with the 2A powerplant.
Been past saggyA and back with the Asp running a 2a pp, and 6b fuel scoop. Even while scooping M stars @ full scoop rate, the ship temp won't go over ~65%
My Asp exploerer http://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/02A4D5A4D1D5D5C------02---3d0t020j022i2f.AwRj49Slmo==.Aw18WQ==
I wouldn't land on planets with my loadout though.
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Uhm do I miss something? The better the powerplant, the less heat problems you have ... I think. But it was never a problem for me anyway. When you hit a trinary you may have a problem and need heat sinks .... whatever ship you fly.
 
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Alex Brentnall

Alex Brentnall
Eloy said:
Uhm do I miss something? The better the powerplant, the less heat problems you have ... I think. But it was never a problem for me anyway. When you hit a trinary you may have a problem and need heat sinks .... whatever ship you fly.
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That is correct but all ships have a heat dissipation rate so certain ships can handle heat better than others. iirc the T7 was notoriously bad for overheating at even the slightest whiff of fuel scooping...
 

Kyle Nix

Kyle Nix
Alex Brentnall said:
That is correct but all ships have a heat dissipation rate so certain ships can handle heat better than others. iirc the T7 was notoriously bad for overheating at even the slightest whiff of fuel scooping...
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The T7 still IS terrible at anything involving heat. The stock version literally starts to cook itself alive just doing a FrameShift Jump. Even with the largest A-class powerplant now, my ship still gets too close to the Klaxon-line every time I FrameShift.
 

Innocentius

Innocentius
All of this heat management changed when the powerplant upgrades started coming from engineers. I used to do short exploration trips on my aspx some time back and I had to watch my heat when scooping. Now I decided to do a new trip and before I left I went to visit Hera for Low Emission powerplant upgrade. Wanted to check it out. The difference is HUGE in user friendliness. I can always now scoop at any speed I want without even thinking of overheating. 6A scoop and I can get 800/s scoop rate and stay at comfy 60 degrees while having almost all of my modules turned on. I was thinking of taking out my dirty drive thrusters (I use the same asp for engineer ferrying), but once I saw the new heat handling I could not be bothered. Safer entry back to civilized space when my boost speed is 440+ if I get interdicted. Just take care to upgrade the right class of powerplant as the upgrade will reduce its power output also.
 

Muadib24

Muadib24
I'm using a DBE, I'm on a 20k ly trip and yes, I miss the AFMU but I changed it for a SRV bay, and no cargo hold, which left me without those illegal canisters of salvage in space .. :p

The heat management of the DBE is awesome, (thus I have some heat sinkers just in case I'm caught in my dumb's 5 minutes. Far now, the only damage I received was due a dumb maneuver in a 6g world. (God bless the shields).
Someday I will try the ASPX but honestly the only reason to try it will be have some cargo bays to pick up interestellar salvage and, to have some weapons just in case this thargoid thingies decides to show up.

BTW, with SRV and shield generators and boosters and some not standad trushters i got 32LY on my DBX.. still the best jump / cargo ratio I could found in market nowadays.
 
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