Heavenly Hammer's Heavy Handed How-To Guide To REAL Crime & Punishment In ED.

[StiTch]

You think patting Mr Toxic on the back (by ignoring his activity) for sitting around an exploration location, destroying as many other CMDRs in their exploration ships as possible is a good thing?

I never said that.

I literally said we should include both regions of punishment.

My point is that it would be entirely unfair to disallow the hunting of other CMDRs that are wanted, on the hysteria-driven belief that bounties would be used to form a league table.

Absolutely include some of the system/station/NPC based punishments, as long as you are not at the point of making it impossible for a criminal to play. But ALSO provide the mechanics for them to be hunted by another CMDR.

I fail to see why that's a problem...

I'm confused how you seem to imply penalising illegal destruction in anarchy systems would be the end of PvP? How so?

I also never said that.

I am questioning your belief that you're entitled to law and order...in anarchy systems.

 

[NeilF]

I never said that.

Apologies... I must admit, I had trouble understanding your point....

I literally said we should include both regions of punishment.

Sorry, so you mean bounty type penalties and the alternative types along the lines to the examples I mentioned (eg: denial of docking etc)? Agreed... See below...

My point is that it would be entirely unfair to disallow the hunting of other CMDRs that are wanted, on the hysteria-driven belief that bounties would be used to form a league table.

You've lost me there? a) On not allowing wanted CMDRs to be hunted, or where any hysteria applies?

To clarify, personally, I do not think simply increasing bounties up as a CMDR continues to "illegally" destroy more and more CMDRs would be useful. Sure make it a reasonable reward, but at some point it becomes meaningless. Indeed how often have you been attacked for just having a 100CR bounty on your head? ps: In my C&P thread I've suggested that once you reach a threshold point, one of the penalties could be a bounty on you no matter where you are <-- If that clarifies my standing?

Absolutely include some of the system/station/NPC based punishments, as long as you are not at the point of making it impossible for a criminal to play. But ALSO provide the mechanics for them to be hunted by another CMDR.

I fail to see why that's a problem...

Well, in my proposal these penalties are only for Pilot Federation members, and for illegally destroying other Pilot Federation members (too often). Again in my C&P thread I've even suggested when you get close to the punishment threshold (eg: You've got near to X illegal desdtructions in Y period), stations should could start commenting on your dodgy looking reputation. Carry on with your psychotic behaviour and then the scale would slowly ramp up so stations would not allow you to dock etc...

I am questioning your belief that you're entitled to law and order...in anarchy systems.

Ignoring entitlement, my main ethos is what's the best outcome in the game...

I find it bizarre that currently - and I'll use an extreme example - a ganker can log into the game, and appear out of no where at a exploration location (eg: ruins) and open fire on any explorer ships that happen to be there... He can then log off. And he can do this as much as he likes... And each time he logs on there is not a single blemish/sign on his status that shows he is acting like a habitual psycho. How is that logical and productive... (& yes this is an extreme example, but it makes a good example I feel)

With the C&P I'm in favour of, his reputation would show immediately he has been destroying other CMDRs. And once he gets to a certain standing, he will have a bounty on him making him fair legal game (no matter where he goes). I've even suggested at a level he's highlighted specifically on scanners as a know "bad dude"!

 

[OfftheRails]

Prevent players WANTED for killing clean CMDRs from docking at any nearby stations (maybe in a 20LY radius).

Make it 100 and you've got yourself a deal. Got to be more than one jump away.

 

[NW3]

I mentioned it elsewhere I think, but I don't believe this will be enough of a deterrent. Consider:

- Most CMDRs into serious PvP, Ganking and Griefing are sitting on a billion or more credits.
- Most ships they target have rebuys less than $3 million

For them, causing you frustration is worth the pittance of a few hundred thousand or even a few million credits. Plus, the ganked CMDR still suffers additional losses in the way of any bounties or cargo he was looking to turn in or sell. Any incomplete missions may be lost.

So while I'd be okay with the ganker paying a the aggrieved CMDRs insurance bill, I think the other stuff probably needs to remain. Otherwise, not enough financial disincentive. IMO, anyway.

I think you're on the right track. Rep++

Personally, I'd up the stakes further. When a murderer's ship is destroyed, so are any engineered modules. That will hurt, no matter how many billions you have in the bank. There should be no way for a player to clear this flag. Kill an innocent (not wanted) player (or perhaps NPC as well) in a non-combat-area/non-anarchy-system and you WILL lose your engineered modules when your ship is destroyed. Engineered modules would be locked to that ship and can't be stored or moved to another ship.

One way to "circumvent" this punishment would be to avoid having engineered modules on your ship. My thought is that this is actually a good outcome. Target ships will be more likely to survive such an encounter, when it's not so one-sided.

It might be desirable to inflict some sort of punishment on wing members of a murderer. It shouldn't be so harsh, since we don't want to introduce another form of ganking (joining a wing just to penalize the other wing members). Perhaps winging up with a known murderer who commits another murder should be severely punished, or something along those lines, would work.

I'd also prevent ramming deaths, by capping the damage to 1% hull. That would prevent some of the most aggravating ganker attacks.

I'd also recommend keeping Anarchy systems as dangerous pirate havens. No punishments for bad behavior should be added.

 

[Split]

Two suggestions, if I may:

1) If the Galaxy Map were to have a flag visible for 10 minutes every time a Cmdr is scanned and identified as "Wanted" (like we can see Friends at the moment) Bounty hunters might spend an entertaining evening chasing them, and the Gal Map would be a living adventure.

2) If all Bounties and the victim's rebuy were to be taken off the attacker's credit balance, the money making exploit would be mitigated. (Obviously, under specific conditions that defined murder, such as firing upon a Clean Cmdr, high-sec system, etc.) Even if it did not act as a deterrent, it prevents the exploit from being used to increase the net worth of the pair of Cmdrs.

 

[StiTch]

I find it bizarre that currently - and I'll use an extreme example - a ganker can log into the game, and appear out of no where at a exploration location (eg: ruins) and open fire on any explorer ships that happen to be there... He can then log off. And he can do this as much as he likes... And each time he logs on there is not a single blemish/sign on his status that shows he is acting like a habitual psycho. How is that logical and productive... (& yes this is an extreme example, but it makes a good example I feel)

With the C&P I'm in favour of, his reputation would show immediately he has been destroying other CMDRs. And once he gets to a certain standing, he will have a bounty on him making him fair legal game (no matter where he goes). I've even suggested at a level he's highlighted specifically on scanners as a know "bad dude"!

So I think we're on board with the rest, but with regards to this, it doesn't matter what you find bizarre about ganking...anarchy systems have no crime and punishment. Players literally appear as "lawless" to each other. There can be no punishment there logically or from a gameplay perspective. If people want vastly increased security/punishment in areas that actually have a supposed security force, then they will also have to accept there are lawless regions of space where anything can happen. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Even FD recognise this. They have previously stated on more than one occasion that they didn't want the default exploration builds to be the mother of all stripped-down, defenseless tin cans, and that they wanted even deep space to become more dangerous.

Higher crime/punishment in systems where law is upheld? Sure. Absolutely. But you have to accept that in lawless space there are no rules. Murder is not even recognised there. Accept the risk and kit up accordingly.