Help me toward some Fer-de-lance love

[Meritz]

It's a nice ship but it'd be so much better with two large hardpoints instead of the single huge one. The only thing worth putting on there are the plasma accelerator and the cannon so that point is virtually useless against anything smaller than a Python which means that your only effective weapons are the 4 mediums.

Not really. First off, if you have problems aiming for smaller targets, you can fit a gimballed cannon.

Other than that, a plasma accelerator is a superb shield stripper. It's perfect for nuking people's shields before they can hit that shield cell recharge. And the funny thing is - it doesn't matter if you have a hard time hitting anything smaller than a Python with it, because anything smaller than a Python will:

A) have trouble chewing through *your* shields
B) be quite killable with 4 medium lasers alone

I started out with 4x beam lasers but found them ineffective - they overheat the ship too fast and drain the capacitor too fast so you're often without enough energy to fire off the PAC. 4x pulse lasers, on the other hand, work really nicely with it.

 

[Squid Torgar]

I takes 8 seconds to hyperspace to another system, and this avoids masslock.

8 seconds is a long time with a In pvp. Especially without shields and a Fdl breathing down your neck. Further there is nothing stopping the Fdl jumping after you to the next system. Don't get me wrong, the vulture is a great ship, but it's a 5th of the cost of a Fdl for a reason.

 

[CMDR Brock Samson]

I prefer smaller and nimbler ships myself.Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Jackie Silver]

8 seconds is a long time with a In pvp.

AIUI bypassing masslock by jumping to another system is an exploit - though clearly some people will not consider that for longer than it takes to think "how can I most effectively cheat with this." ^^

 

[Morbad]

8 seconds is a long time with a In pvp. Especially without shields and a Fdl breathing down your neck. Further there is nothing stopping the Fdl jumping after you to the next system. Don't get me wrong, the vulture is a great ship, but it's a 5th of the cost of a Fdl for a reason.

There is not much of anything that can strip the shields of a Vulture in such a short span of time and wise pilots disengage before shields collapse.

Also, an FDL equipped with a solid interdictor is sacrificing something else. Even if you can follow a Vulture that jumps a way (not a sure thing as the Vulture has a longer jump range and skilled pilots will drop to normal space then jump again), you face an opponent with full shields, who can almost certainly just flip 4 pips to SYS and be gone long before being seriously at risk.

Bad vulture pilots are one thing, but even those of modest skill are hard to put down if they have any sense of self preservation.

[video=youtube;f1UxNL80xGU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1UxNL80xGU[/video]

 

[PotatoOverdose]

AIUI bypassing masslock by jumping to another system is an exploit

No it isn't. From the elite dangerous manual (source), page 74:


"Unlike super cruise, a hyperspace jump drive charge time is never affected by other vessels;
the compression effect required for such dramatic compression overwhelms the mass effect
of ships. A hyperspace jump always takes 15 seconds to charge."



I REALLY wish people in this community would stop yelling "Exploit! Exploit!" every time someone does something they think is unfair.

 

[Derath]

No it isn't. From the elite dangerous manual (source), page 74:

"Unlike super cruise, a hyperspace jump drive charge time is never affected by other vessels;
the compression effect required for such dramatic compression overwhelms the mass effect
of ships. A hyperspace jump always takes 15 seconds to charge."



I REALLY wish people in this community would stop yelling "Exploit! Exploit!" every time someone does something they think is unfair.

Repped and agreed, this feature is required IMO as a defense for solo players vs wings. It won't usually save you in a fight where you chose to stick it out then went to leave when it gets bad, but it will save you if you know its a terrible engagement and you leave straight away.

 

[Morbad]

I'd like to see masslock affect hyperspace jumps, but it's not currently intended to, and never has, as far as I know.

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Repped and agreed, this feature is required IMO as a defense for solo players vs wings.

I don't think this is a required defense, by any means. It certainly makes escape easier, but a skilled pilot can avoid the interdiction all together (either by identifying potential interdictors and avoiding them, or by winning the tunnel game) or hold out until frameshift completes despite any masslock (faster ships can get out of range, and most slow ships can take a beating).

New players, or those in ships both weak and slow would find it very difficult, but many of these players either lack the knowledge to hyperspace jump, or don't have the presence of mind to do so while under fire.

 

[Rall]

There is not much of anything that can strip the shields of a Vulture in such a short span of time and wise pilots disengage before shields collapse.

Also, an FDL equipped with a solid interdictor is sacrificing something else. Even if you can follow a Vulture that jumps a way (not a sure thing as the Vulture has a longer jump range and skilled pilots will drop to normal space then jump again), you face an opponent with full shields, who can almost certainly just flip 4 pips to SYS and be gone long before being seriously at risk.

Bad vulture pilots are one thing, but even those of modest skill are hard to put down if they have any sense of self preservation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1UxNL80xGU

I agress with Morbad on this Vultures are tough fights no matter what your flying. If FDL could boom and zoom like the old days with dumbfires, it'd be a non issue. But those days are gone (For the better IMO)

The FDLs hasn't got the power overhead to fit the high alpha loadout required to boom a Vulture, it's shields are just too strong. So you need to get in and engage the Vulture and do sustained damage.

FDL vs Vulture 1v1 is almost always a stalemate, neither ship has a signifcant enough advantage in shields or firepower to be acheive domanance.

 

[CMDR Reza Malin]

I have seen a lot of these threads now.

The bottom line is that you have to learn to fly it and play around with it before you will feel comfortable in it. This takes a bit of time. You also need to manage the pips constantly to get the best results. Its an advanced combat ship, not an instant iwin button. You get out what you put in.

After flying one extensively, the only thing i would ever fear in pvp, as thats the only thing you have to be afraid of, is either another FDL, or a fully combat fitted A class python. A vulture was nowhere near the top of the list either.

The weapon loadouts i found to be most effective, was 2xC2 beams, 2xC2 multicannons, and the gimballed cannon. Or, 4 x C2 multicannons and a C3 beam laser.

 

[magillag]

Back when I was in my sidey wishing for a cobra (that's what everybody flew before the FDL and Vulture we added) I remember thinking "I'm not going to get one of those, everybody has one..."
Now I'm in an A rated Cobra and thinking: "I'm not going to get onw of those, everybody has one..."

Hahaha, I guess it's time to change my thinking

It would be nice to fly something different, I'm getting bored in the Cobra...

Anyone know where I can buy one near Achenar?

 

[Rall]

I'd like to see masslock affect hyperspace jumps, but it's not currently intended to, and never has, as far as I know.
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I don't think this is a required defense, by any means. It certainly makes escape easier, but a skilled pilot can avoid the interdiction all together (either by identifying potential interdictors and avoiding them, or by winning the tunnel game) or hold out until frameshift completes despite any masslock (faster ships can get out of range, and most slow ships can take a beating).

New players, or those in ships both weak and slow would find it very difficult, but many of these players either lack the knowledge to hyperspace jump, or don't have the presence of mind to do so while under fire.

I spent the weekend in a Cobra being pirate bait for the fun of it (While running Fed rep missions)

I wanted to see what the newbies are up against now. I was deliberately either standing and Fighting or trying to jump into super cruise. Pre 1.2, a Cobra was pretty much immune to piracy, with only trouble being a Clipper which can't deliver enough firepower at range to hinder a Cobras boost run.

The landscape has changed significantly, pirate/PKers now favour the Vulture.

I was submitting to interdiction without contesting, and also trying to run via SC jumps only. It's enormously difficult to outrun a Vulture in a Cobra the speed difference is vastly overstated. That was boosting in FA-Off.

The quickest way to break weapon range is FA-Off boosting in a straight line, you won't last long enough even to break weapon range. Shields and SCB's can't outpace the Vulture DPS in a Cobra.

Jinxing to avoid fire but you in the fire zone much longer, and the Vulture is more than agile enough to engage a manoeuvring target.

Most time's I did manage to escape, but with no shields and badly damaged, which usually resulted in being interdicted, or caught in normal space again and then summarily destroyed. This was no entry level Cobra either; it was fully equipment, including Mil armour.

Fighting a Vulture in anything less than another Vulture is an exercise in futility. They can literally stay still type in their Cargo demands with impunity while you whittling away at their shields with beams/PA's etc.

Life is a lot tougher now for the new players in populated zone than it was in gamma and pre wings. Dedicated trade ships are even more vulnerable another issue, you shouldn't be taking them into known pirate space without an escort.

I’m not saying the balance is off or need changing; I didn’t really spend enough time to come to any conclusions. But it’s nowhere near as easy as it used to be.

 

[Neofactor]

I love my FDL as it is maneuverable enough to use fixed weapons on three of the 5 points. I'd love it more if there was better options for the huge hard-point. I'd love a huge beam laser or rail gun. The Plasma cannon or regular cannon just don't fit my play style. Regardless, it seems like the best fighter in the game and only the Anaconda has more powerful shields (though the python may be able to surpass it if it really tried), and with the best hardpoint placement and manuvorabilty for it's size I don't see the issue. The biggest problem is the poor module capacity (a ship that big having so few?) and the poor jump range. It really sucks for the cost of the ship.

 

[Derath]

I'd like to see masslock affect hyperspace jumps, but it's not currently intended to, and never has, as far as I know.

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I don't think this is a required defense, by any means. It certainly makes escape easier, but a skilled pilot can avoid the interdiction all together (either by identifying potential interdictors and avoiding them, or by winning the tunnel game) or hold out until frameshift completes despite any masslock (faster ships can get out of range, and most slow ships can take a beating).

New players, or those in ships both weak and slow would find it very difficult, but many of these players either lack the knowledge to hyperspace jump, or don't have the presence of mind to do so while under fire.

any two players in the same ship are going to kill you if they get into combat with you (unless you get 2k away before they finish spinning, happens sometimes), winning the tunnel mini-game is only viable in certain ships and relies entirely on the opposition using a low class interdictor to even have a chance. The best defence as you say is to avoid getting interdicted in the first place but that isn't always easy - especially if your trying to play your own game, you generally have to leave the system which is exactly the same as getting interdicted and leaving the system anyway lol

 

[Morbad]

The quickest way to break weapon range is FA-Off boosting in a straight line, you won't last long enough even to break weapon range. Shields and SCB's can't outpace the Vulture DPS in a Cobra.

Depends on weapons being used. Lasers suffer pretty bad drop off past 1km, and projectiles are hard to land consistently unless the target isn't performing evasive actions. If you start right next to a Vulture with a Cobra, you are unlikely to get away if that Vulture know what he/she is doing, but in most interdiction scenarios, you are a km away, and unless you are positioned especially badly or slow to react, that gap will only widen.

any two players in the same ship are going to kill you if they get into combat with you

More than a few times, I've been interdicted by more than two ships of the same, or better, type than I was flying and have escaped via supercruise. That said, I've always submitted to the interdictions with the intent of putting myself in a better position to run.

Four clippers or four FDLs struggle to take out one Clipper or FDL before it can supercruise, if geared for survivability (my normal trade Clipper has an A6 shield gen, four A0 boosters, and enough SCB charges to almost fully refill the shields 5 times...while still being capable of 435m/s with a full hold), and I've even escaped a wing of Vultures/FDLs via SC with an Asp without losing shields.

If you are running, the same ship is going to need four pips in ENG to keep the gap from widening, and is likely to be short on power for weapons...weapons that, barring railguns, are either inaccurate at range, or which have damage drop off.

Sure, there are some match ups that will result in very quick destruction (Haulers and any Type-X vessel vs. a wing of combat ships of similar cost), but using such fragile vessels without any sort of escort to cover your escape should be a foolish thing to do in areas known to be frequented by potentially hostile CMDRs. Mass lock working against hyperspace jump could well change the dynamic of these vessels, but not in a way I think would harm the game.

 

[Rall]

Depends on weapons being used. Lasers suffer pretty bad drop off past 1km, and projectiles are hard to land consistently unless the target isn't performing evasive actions. If you start right next to a Vulture with a Cobra, you are unlikely to get away if that Vulture know what he/she is doing, but in most interdiction scenarios, you are a km away, and unless you are positioned especially badly or slow to react, that gap will only widen.

This may because I was submitting to the interdiction, which alway placed me infornt of and close to antagonist Vulture. Thinking about it I would proabably have been better of being dropped out of the interdiction with the random spin mechanic and taking my chances.