Help me understand system scanning

[R3dbvll]

Hi all,
It has been a while since I've played, I'm get back into things. I'm just stooging around in my Sidewinder currently, doing data runs for the fun, and grab some credits, before building a small explorer ship.

I'm also taking the chance to scan systems as I pass through them.

One thing (hah, if only) I don't understand - in some systems I visit (for the first time), all the information seems to be available for that system when I arrive. I honk, and get a message that so many bodies are here etc. In other systems (also visited for the first time), I'm told I have discovered so many bodies, and when I check the nav panel or go into FSS, no bodies have been scanned.

For both situations, I'm clearly not the first person to be in these systems and scan them - so why the difference? Why don't all these systems appear as already scanned and not in need of any FSS scanning by me?

Edit: I was wondering if this is a time-delay issue - If some one else scanned the system 1 hour ago (for argument's sake), the system data is all there, if it was scanned 10 hours, the data is 'stale' so I need to rescan to see the data.

 

[Sapyx]

NO, it's not a timer, and no, you're not imagining things. THere are two diferent types of star systems in the Bubble: Unexplored, and pre-Explored. It's all to do with the system's population.

If a star system has a population of over 1 million people, that system is considered "pre-Explored" - all objects in the system do not have "First Discovered" Tags and all the information about all the planets is available to you, without needing to run the FSS, and running the FSS does not get you any exploration credits. You used to also be able to see the system maps for these systems even before you visited them, but that changed with version 3.3.

If the system is under 1 million population - whether inhabited or not - then it's probably rated Unexplored. You need to run the FSS to see the data on planets, but you do get exploration data for doing so.

There are some systems that don't "fit the mould" - some low-population systems that are nevertheless rated as "pre-Explored": numerous worlds around "The Pill" (a cylindrical region of space around Eranin which was the only playable region of the galaxy back in the days of Gamma Testing) and most of the inhabited permit-locked systems. And there are a few high-pop systems that are Unexplored; most notably, the high-population systems in the Colonia region. But the million-pop cutoff makes a good rule of thumb when planning in-Bubble exploration journeys.

Note that this only applies to FSS scans. Probing a planet with the DSS probes to obtain mapping data is still possible in pre-Explored systems (except for the three Superpower capital systems of Sol, Achenar and Alioth) and still earns you credits, even if someone else has already Mapped those planets.

 

[Micha]

THere are two diferent types of star systems in the Bubble: Unexplored, and pre-Explored. It's all to do with the system's population.

...

Oh cool; I didn't know about any of that!

But there's slightly more to it since 3.3. If someone used the FSS to explore a system and has returned and sold the data for that system, the next person to arrive at that system will see a partially-explored view of that system.

Planets still show up as "unexplored", but are visible in the NavPanel/System Map.

Also, you don't -have- to use the FSS to scan a planet - just being within passive scanning range (might depend on the size of the body, but seems to be ~30ls) scans it automatically.

 

[R3dbvll]

Thank you both for those explanations, that is very helpful!

Exploration is E is a little conceptually strange I think, but now I know the rules, I can go with that. Is this documented any where?

 

[metatheurgist]

It's not so conceptually strange. Most of the places on Earth are mapped, even places you haven't been before. You don't know them but they are known. Almost no one wants your personal knowledge of those places. Most of the places on Mars on the other hand....

 

[R3dbvll]

It's not so conceptually strange. Most of the places on Earth are mapped, even places you haven't been before. You don't know them but they are known. Almost no one wants your personal knowledge of those places. Most of the places on Mars on the other hand....

Perhaps it is more down to the terminology then. There should be a clear differentiation in terms and approach to exploration which is virgin territory, and exploration which is personal. E.g. exploration of a moon in the Solar system is virgin and new, me back-packing though south america is personal exploration.

 

[Shiro Akai]

You kinda mixed discovered and explored. Understandable as exploration mechanics isn't the most intuitive.

CMDR X finds system A. Scans it and leave.
System A remains undiscovered and unexplored till CMDR X sells the data.
CMDR X sells the data, system A is set to discovered.
You enter system A, honk it and get list of all 3 planets there. Unexplored.
This is because it's your first visit to the system. You know there's a system, you know it has 3 planets but you haven;t seen them.
You scan planets and leave.
You sell the exploration data, system and scanned planets turn into explored. For you.
I come to system A. Discovered. Unexplored. For me.
You come to system A. Discovered. Explored. No more credits for you, no matter how much you honk it or scan it.

You come to system B. Undiscovered, unexplored. You honk and scan every planet and moon.
You sell data. You discover system, get "first discovered by" tag.
I come to system B. Discovered first by you. Unexplored for me.

 

[R3dbvll]

You kinda mixed discovered and explored. Understandable as exploration mechanics isn't the most intuitive.

CMDR X finds system A. Scans it and leave.
System A remains undiscovered and unexplored till CMDR X sells the data.
CMDR X sells the data, system A is set to discovered.
You enter system A, honk it and get list of all 3 planets there. Unexplored.
This is because it's your first visit to the system. You know there's a system, you know it has 3 planets but you haven;t seen them.
You scan planets and leave.
You sell the exploration data, system and scanned planets turn into explored. For you.
I come to system A. Discovered. Unexplored. For me.
You come to system A. Discovered. Explored. No more credits for you, no matter how much you honk it or scan it.

You come to system B. Undiscovered, unexplored. You honk and scan every planet and moon.
You sell data. You discover system, get "first discovered by" tag.
I come to system B. Discovered first by you. Unexplored for me.

THanks for this, but I'm still a bit confused then.

I'm in a very populated area, I'm sure many commanders have been here (in fact all systems show first discovered by, and planets all scanned).
So why then do I still come across systems that are unexplored - from what you are saying, that shouldn't be the case as other commanders have clearly been through these systems and sold the data.

 

[Shiro Akai]

Unexplored by you. This is key word. Places you mention are long Discovered by others. Common knowledge. But since you visit those places for the first time they are Unexplored for you alone. The fact it was visited by others many times and data sold many times is irrelevant. For you.

You heard of Marianna Trench, the deepest place on Earth? I bet you heard. This is equivalent of "discovered".
have you ever been to Marianna Trench? I bet you haven't. This is equivalent of "explored".

Sure, people know about Marianna Trench (it's discovered), there were few who actually been there (explored, by them). But for you it's known (discovered, you can't claim you discovered it) yet unexplored - you haven't been there.

Same as me. I hear of that place, never been there. Discovered, unexplored.

Have you been to Sahara Desert? I have. That place for me is discovered, explored.
If you haven't been to Sahara Desert, then that place, for you, is discovered, unexplored.
You heard of Sahara Desert, right? Even if not it's still discovered. When you get there you'll learn it's long discovered. isiting it will make it explored for you.

Hoe this example clears the confusion. If not - say so and I'll try to think of better example

 

[R3dbvll]

Unexplored by you. This is key word. Places you mention are long Discovered by others. Common knowledge. But since you visit those places for the first time they are Unexplored for you alone. The fact it was visited by others many times and data sold many times is irrelevant. For you.

You heard of Marianna Trench, the deepest place on Earth? I bet you heard. This is equivalent of "discovered".
have you ever been to Marianna Trench? I bet you haven't. This is equivalent of "explored".

Sure, people know about Marianna Trench (it's discovered), there were few who actually been there (explored, by them). But for you it's known (discovered, you can't claim you discovered it) yet unexplored - you haven't been there.

Same as me. I hear of that place, never been there. Discovered, unexplored.

Have you been to Sahara Desert? I have. That place for me is discovered, explored.
If you haven't been to Sahara Desert, then that place, for you, is discovered, unexplored.
You heard of Sahara Desert, right? Even if not it's still discovered. When you get there you'll learn it's long discovered. isiting it will make it explored for you.

Hoe this example clears the confusion. If not - say so and I'll try to think of better example

I think I get what you're saying - but here is the thing : all these are systems that I've never been to before. Some are already completely explored/discovered, I don't need to honk all the info is there (except for signal sources). Some are unexplored (by me), so I honk and FSS to fill in the blanks. What I don't understand is the inconsistency.

 

[Macy]

You kinda mixed discovered and explored. Understandable as exploration mechanics isn't the most intuitive.

CMDR X finds system A. Scans it and leave.
System A remains undiscovered and unexplored till CMDR X sells the data.
CMDR X sells the data, system A is set to discovered.
You enter system A, honk it and get list of all 3 planets there. Unexplored.
This is because it's your first visit to the system. You know there's a system, you know it has 3 planets but you haven;t seen them.
You scan planets and leave.
You sell the exploration data, system and scanned planets turn into explored. For you.
I come to system A. Discovered. Unexplored. For me.
You come to system A. Discovered. Explored. No more credits for you, no matter how much you honk it or scan it.

You come to system B. Undiscovered, unexplored. You honk and scan every planet and moon.
You sell data. You discover system, get "first discovered by" tag.
I come to system B. Discovered first by you. Unexplored for me.

Finally, i get it. Thanks.
I was wondering why the galaxy map shows lots of systems with no exploration data. I remember i could click on almost any system and see its system map.
I like the new system. It adds some realistic mystery.

 

[R3dbvll]

Can anybody else chime in as well - I feel there is conflicting information around, and I'd really like to understand this:

I visit a system I've never been to before, and it is already explored, no FSS needed.
I visit another system I've never been to, and this one is unexplored by me, and I use the FSS.

Both of these systems have already been 'discovered' (although I note that when you scan a world using the FSS, it says you have 'discovered it'...), so why the inconsistency?

 

[Micha]

Can anybody else chime in as well - I feel there is conflicting information around, and I'd really like to understand this:

I visit a system I've never been to before, and it is already explored, no FSS needed.
I visit another system I've never been to, and this one is unexplored by me, and I use the FSS.

Both of these systems have already been 'discovered' (although I note that when you scan a world using the FSS, it says you have 'discovered it'...), so why the inconsistency?

1. There are some "pre-explored" systems. Basically your ship computer is pre-loaded with the information for these systems; generally they are in the Bubble. You don't need to do anything, you have full system schematics the very first time you arrive.

2. Then there are the "unexplored" (by you) systems for which your ship computer has no data ("undiscovered") or partial data ("discovered"). You need to use the FSS (or NavBeacon, or buy the NavData) in order to get the full system schematics the first time you visit. @Shiro Akai has explained how these behave in some detail.

 

[R3dbvll]

1. There are some "pre-explored" systems. Basically your ship computer is pre-loaded with the information for these systems; generally they are in the Bubble. You don't need to do anything, you have full system schematics the very first time you arrive.

2. Then there are the "unexplored" (by you) systems for which your ship computer has no data ("undiscovered") or partial data ("discovered"). You need to use the FSS (or NavBeacon, or buy the NavData) in order to get the full system schematics the first time you visit. @Shiro Akai has explained how these behave in some detail.

THanks for the reply - that is in line with what Sapyx was trying to explain I think.
I'm well inside the bubble, travelling towards Felicity Farseer. Some systesm come up as arleady explored, others i need to explore.