Hip 98621: a story of betrayal, perseverance, and standing up for what is right.

[Darty]

It all started over 3 months ago when a self made Elite streamer by the name of ThePaveHawker decided to start a very ambitious project of kicking a non-native NPC faction out of Hip 98621, an over 8 Billion population system. The goal was to free a space for our PMF the 13th Legion to move in and eventually control the system. Despite the massive amount of effort required to do so, Pave and his stream managed to do so in about 2 and a half months.

This is when our first group of villains show up. As the 13th prepared to expand into the now empty Hip 98621, the treacherous 1st Galactic Line of Defense, a fellow imperial faction, attacked every system we tried to expand from while simultaneously trying to expand into Hip 98621 themselves. The 13th legion quickly counterattacked and the BGS of 1glod tanked, and many of their cmdrs saw the rebuy screen. 1glod did not let up though, insisting that the 13th would never set foot in the system the 13th spent months opening up. Moreover, they took things to a personal level, going so far as to insult the dead wife of Pave. Both sides settled in for an extended conflict.

Thats when the second group of villains in this story reveal themselves. Ghost legion saw an opening, and cared not for who made that opening. They expanded into Hip 98621 and started working the system. The 13th at first tried to peacefully approach Ghost legion to explain the situation. We were told they would not back down. Under the false impression that they were imperial due to their close ties with imperial powerplay groups, the 13th legion initially backed down, however, upon finding out that Ghost legion was not imperial we decided to stand up for ourselves against all odds and try to force them out of our system.

That brings us to the current time, where 13th and Ghost legion are fighting in an election between a local faction and ghost legion's PMF the SJC. If the Ghost legion wins this election, they will have a strong foothold in the system and it will be nearly impossible for the 13th to reclaim what is rightfully theirs. However, not all is lost as the election is currently tied 2 to 2. Ghost legion is not letting up however, allying themselves with 1glod the people who mock widowers and lying to imperial factions about the nature of the conflict in an attempt to drum up support. For this reason the 13th legion is appealing to all cmdrs with a sense of justice to come to join us in defending hip 98621 from ghost legions unjust expansionist attempts.

If you wish to support us or just want to find out more, please join our discord set up specifically for this conflict. https://discord.gg/mfjA75Z

o7 Cmdrs hope to fly with you soon.

 

[Jakspratt]

Just a minute - let us correct a few inaccuracies:
The fact that SJC are and have always been Independent seems to have been missed. They expanded into this system in the normal process of gameplay. They do not work for or are aligned to any Imperial factions. In PowerPlay terms the system comes under the control of Zemina Torval and our Government is favourable to ZT.

However, this not been a straight forward battle between the SJC and 13th Legion; The Twitch streamer ThePaveHawker is streaming his actions on behalf of 13th Legion and rallying all his followers with a mass of disinformation and lies about the SJC and the Ghost Legion. He states that over 400 have deserted the group and he bases this on the difference between the numbers on Inara and those in-game. In a similar vein, he himself is shown as Independent on Inara - perhaps he has deserted his group now that the have failed to gain any traction? He says that the SJC were 'given' the system to the detriment of an Empire faction. This is not the case, the group fought for their expansion and are now in the system and battling to stay there. They are not allied to 1GLoD and there is nothing 'unjust' about their expansion into the system.

Not content with using the support of the streamer's many followers, the group are now trying to rally support from other Imperial factions.
All I would say to those who listen to his stream is not to take everything he says as fact - he has much to gain to make his stream as interesting as possible.

 

[Darty]

Just a minute - let us correct a few inaccuracies:
The fact that SJC are and have always been Independent seems to have been missed. They expanded into this system in the normal process of gameplay. They do not work for or are aligned to any Imperial factions. In PowerPlay terms the system comes under the control of Zemina Torval and our Government is favourable to ZT.

I never said you were imperial.

However, this not been a straight forward battle between the SJC and 13th Legion; The Twitch streamer ThePaveHawker is streaming his actions on behalf of 13th Legion and rallying all his followers with a mass of disinformation and lies about the SJC and the Ghost Legion. He states that over 400 have deserted the group and he bases this on the difference between the numbers on Inara and those in-game.

He quickly corrected himself when he realized those were different stats.

In a similar vein, he himself is shown as Independent on Inara - perhaps he has deserted his group now that the have failed to gain any traction? He says that the SJC were 'given' the system to the detriment of an Empire faction. This is not the case, the group fought for their expansion and are now in the system and battling to stay there.

They claim they were given the go ahead by an imperial representative and that they would respect a demand by said representative to withdraw. Ergo they were given it by said imperial.

They are not allied to 1GLoD and there is nothing 'unjust' about their expansion into the system.

Then why are they working with them and it totally is unjust to steal 2 and a half months of work and then LIE to the group who you stole it from's allies about it.

Not content with using the support of the streamer's many followers, the group are now trying to rally support from other Imperial factions.
All I would say to those who listen to his stream is not to take everything he says as fact - he has much to gain to make his stream as interesting as possible.

Of course we are asking our allies for help. SJC did the same except they lied to mutual allies in order to get support.

 

[Justinian Octavius]

13th Legion's leadership were asked if Ghost Legion could take the HIP 98621 system and said yes. They then changed their minds. It is not Ghost Legion's fault 13th Legion didn't bother to look up who the faction was. I'd advise other groups to keep out of this & let the best man win control of the system.

CMDR Justinian Octavius

 

[BHARD99]

The Ghost Legion won a race in BGS. We have been the first to congratulate them. Therefore they earned it to keep the system. It‘s sad that some guys within 13th Legion are such a bad looser.
And it makes me even more sad that an imperial faction is attacking our Powerplay based on this „false proud“. Take it like a man.
All the „alternative facts“ and even lies on a never ending twitch-propaganda-stream-session doesn’t make this better.
You started a hate campaign @Darty although you have nothing to do with leadership.
You better stop this right now.

This is 1GLoD speaking.

Cmdr BHARD99
Wing Commander
1st Galactic Line of Defence

 

[Darty]

The Ghost Legion won a race in BGS. We have been the first to congratulate them. Therefore they earned it to keep the system. It‘s sad that some guys within 13th Legion are such a bad looser.
And it makes me even more sad that an imperial faction is attacking our Powerplay based on this „false proud“. Take it like a man.
All the „alternative facts“ and even lies on a never ending twitch-propaganda-stream-session doesn’t make this better.
You started a hate campaign @Darty although you have nothing to do with leadership.
You better stop this right now.

This is 1GLoD speaking.

Cmdr BHARD99
Wing Commander
1st Galactic Line of Defence

The snake shows its face. Where to even begin.

Its not being a bad loser to defend a system you opened up. What a dumb concept. What is being a bad loser is continuing to attack someone who stopped you from stealing their system out of spite, which is exactly what 1Glod is doing.

Funny how a guy just stating his opinion on twitch is "non-stop propganda". What a spin! Who would have thought that ing with someone with a large audience would make you unpopular. Truly mind boggling.

As for attacks on leadership, well as everyone can see torval "leadership" is actively attacking us and trying to undermine our efforts to defend ourselves. They can't even just stay out of it. I went out of my way not to say ANYTHING that could hurt mr. JO's credibility yet he still undermines my attempts to get help. I honestly didn't like how hard Pave was on JO but after this thread, after he tries to stop us from appealing to non-imperials, all to defend an independent faction's efforts to screw us over, I think pave is on to something!

 

[RobWolves]

...... it will be nearly impossible for the 13th to reclaim what is rightfully theirs.

I fail to see how it is rightfully theirs [13th's]. Have they ever been present in the system at any point or controlled it and had it unfairly taken away? If so, it would be useful to include that detail and the circumstances.

If not, then 13th cannot really stake a claim on it or call it rightfully theirs. Whilst frustration that efforts have come to nothing may be understandable, it doesn't seem fair to be calling the 3rd group villains. They can't take something away from the 13th that they never had to begin with.

Less cry of foul play and unjust expansions (where there are none) on the forums and try to win your battle in game instead.

 

[Rosetta Kawuttke]

What's your Rank???

 

[Rosetta Kawuttke]

Like Pave said, it's a Game

 

[Old Duck]

Discord is of the devil.

 

[Darty]

I fail to see how it is rightfully theirs [13th's]. Have they ever been present in the system at any point or controlled it and had it unfairly taken away? If so, it would be useful to include that detail and the circumstances.

If not, then 13th cannot really stake a claim on it or call it rightfully theirs. Whilst frustration that efforts have come to nothing may be understandable, it doesn't seem fair to be calling the 3rd group villains. They can't take something away from the 13th that they never had to begin with.

Less cry of foul play and unjust expansions (where there are none) on the forums and try to win your battle in game instead.

I'm sorry but when a small player group has 3 months of work wiped out by a bigger player group it is unjust. This entire saga has been larger groups attempting to bully a smaller group into submission because the smaller group was willing to put effort into the game when the bigger groups were not. Sure it is just a game and I am sure Ghost legion are nice people IRL, but their actions in game are villainous regardless.

 

[RobWolves]

Don't be sorry for expressing your opinion,, of it being unjust but that's what it is, opinion. The facts you've presented indicate nothing was taken from 13th. 13th were involved in a battle with one player group and were unable to overcome initially. Another uninvolved group then expanded in.

3 months is not that much in the BGS world. Many groups have been doing it for years and will have had similar loses where the BGS didn't go their way. They don't claim unjust play, they just get over it and get on with the next objective.

No one has taken anything from the 13th. All I see is they were simply beaten to the system using fair in-game BGS mechanics.

 

[Murrdox]

Let's also not forget how Pave was told unverified (and false) information about a member of Ghost, accusing them of combat logging after an interdiction (this did not happen) and then proceeded to slander that player, Ghost Leadership, and accuse all Ghost players of combat logging for the next two hours on his stream.

A little bit of trash talk is to be expected, sure. Unfounded accusations of exploits go beyond this and are in bad taste. We've been fighting fair the whole time.

 

[Diettinger]

I'm sorry but when a small player group has 3 months of work wiped out by a bigger player group it is unjust. This entire saga has been larger groups attempting to bully a smaller group into submission because the smaller group was willing to put effort into the game when the bigger groups were not. Sure it is just a game and I am sure Ghost legion are nice people IRL, but their actions in game are villainous regardless.

Darty, what you fail to realize here is that it wasn't simply ThePaveHawker's work that pushed out another MF and opened the way for a PMF. The Ghost Legion was working in the same system toward the same goal at the same time (and probably for a bit longer) as ThePaveHawker. While it would be exciting to believe that he and a small handful of followers managed to push the numbers just right in a system of over 8 billion to force a NPC MF out; in truth, it would be nothing short of miraculous. When you step back and take in the entire picture you realize that the outcome was predicated on a number of factors (most of them non-sinister). The first and foremost was simply bad timing. The second was a failure on ThePaveHawker's part to communicate effectively (or perhaps 13th Legion leadership's part?) about his/their intentions with the other groups involved/active in the system. Obviously, a third factor was the animosity/prevailing conflict between the 13th and 1GLoD. With this conflict raging across the 13th's systems it was all but assured that another faction (NPC or PMF) was going to fill the void -- it's part of the game's mechanics.

The Ghost Legion's move was never sinister, misguided, nor out of kilter with the "roleplaying" aspect of the game regardless of ThePaveHawkers insinuations to the contrary. It's leadership had clearly enunciated their desires, received the green light/go-ahead from all other parties with any interest in the system (including the 13th Legion, as Jackspratt noted above) and proceeded under the clear understanding that everyone concurred with their effort. I watch ThePaveHawker's stream from time to time and have gone back over the last few days to review his streams. From his perspective he seems to be ignorant of Ghost Legion's simultaneous efforts in the system. He appears to have been working under the false assumption that his efforts and those of his followers where the only ones being made in the system before the fateful tick. Now, I like ThePaveHawker, he's an interesting and entertaining personality and a good person, at heart, but he has been working from a false premise and under false assumptions since the tick that denied the 13th Legion a place in the system. Since then his skewed viewpoint has led him to malign, lie about, and denigrate the Ghost Legion and its members. It is truly unfortunate and I hope that he will eventually take the time to step back, ask the right questions, and "listen" to the answers given rather than interpreting them to fit his preconceived ideas behind the events that followed the tick that began all these shenanigans.

 

[Phongsalt]

.And make sure the machines are stocked.It's gonna be a long night.

 

[Darty]

Don't be sorry for expressing your opinion,, of it being unjust but that's what it is, opinion. The facts you've presented indicate nothing was taken from 13th. 13th were involved in a battle with one player group and were unable to overcome initially. Another uninvolved group then expanded in.

3 months is not that much in the BGS world. Many groups have been doing it for years and will have had similar loses where the BGS didn't go their way. They don't claim unjust play, they just get over it and get on with the next objective.

No one has taken anything from the 13th. All I see is they were simply beaten to the system using fair in-game BGS mechanics.

I'm not saying they used some unfair game mechanic or something, thats not my point at all. However, their actions from a role play perspective are malicious and typical of a "bad guy." Please don't get me wrong, they are well within their rights to steal this system from us from a gameplay perspective. It just means they are playing as the big bad guys as opposed to a benevolent superpower.

 

[Darty]

Darty, what you fail to realize here is that it wasn't simply ThePaveHawker's work that pushed out another MF and opened the way for a PMF. The Ghost Legion was working in the same system toward the same goal at the same time (and probably for a bit longer) as ThePaveHawker. While it would be exciting to believe that he and a small handful of followers managed to push the numbers just right in a system of over 8 billion to force a NPC MF out; in truth, it would be nothing short of miraculous. When you step back and take in the entire picture you realize that the outcome was predicated on a number of factors (most of them non-sinister). The first and foremost was simply bad timing. The second was a failure on ThePaveHawker's part to communicate effectively (or perhaps 13th Legion leadership's part?) about his/their intentions with the other groups involved/active in the system. Obviously, a third factor was the animosity/prevailing conflict between the 13th and 1GLoD. With this conflict raging across the 13th's systems it was all but assured that another faction (NPC or PMF) was going to fill the void -- it's part of the game's mechanics.

The Ghost Legion's move was never sinister, misguided, nor out of kilter with the "roleplaying" aspect of the game regardless of ThePaveHawkers insinuations to the contrary. It's leadership had clearly enunciated their desires, received the green light/go-ahead from all other parties with any interest in the system (including the 13th Legion, as Jackspratt noted above) and proceeded under the clear understanding that everyone concurred with their effort. I watch ThePaveHawker's stream from time to time and have gone back over the last few days to review his streams. From his perspective he seems to be ignorant of Ghost Legion's simultaneous efforts in the system. He appears to have been working under the false assumption that his efforts and those of his followers where the only ones being made in the system before the fateful tick. Now, I like ThePaveHawker, he's an interesting and entertaining personality and a good person, at heart, but he has been working from a false premise and under false assumptions since the tick that denied the 13th Legion a place in the system. Since then his skewed viewpoint has led him to malign, lie about, and denigrate the Ghost Legion and its members. It is truly unfortunate and I hope that he will eventually take the time to step back, ask the right questions, and "listen" to the answers given rather than interpreting them to fit his preconceived ideas behind the events that followed the tick that began all these shenanigans.

I don't buy that for a second. This is the first I've heard of this supposed campaign by ghost legion to push make a space, when it would have been the first thing they told us when the conflict started. Sorry but I have to call bull on that.
Edit: Actually, I distinctly remember ghost legion telling us that they found out about the opening in the system using a tool that showed open systems. Why would they claim that if they had actually been working on it the entire time?

 

[RobWolves]

I'm not going to listen to claims of roleplay being the reason of unjust because not everyone uses roleplay in game and this forum is not going to know which of the groups you mention are roleplaying and which aren't. If GL don't roleplay then who says they did anything malicious.

Can you stop saying GL stole the system? This is factually incorrect by the very evidence you presented in the OP.

This is an argument between player minor factions that doesn't really need to take place here.

 

[Darty]

They did steal the system and all BGS is role play to an extent.

 

[Diettinger]

I don't buy that for a second. This is the first I've heard of this supposed campaign by ghost legion to push make a space, when it would have been the first thing they told us when the conflict started. Sorry but I have to call bull on that.

Actually, Justinian Octavius said the same above: "13th Legion's leadership were asked if Ghost Legion could take the HIP 98621 system and said yes."
This occurred sometime back, before ThePaveHawker's own effort to manipulate the BGS mechanics. As he noted, "They then changed their minds. It is not Ghost Legion's fault 13th Legion didn't bother to look up who the faction was."
The Ghost Legion's efforts were already well underway when ThePaveHawker made his group's push for a spot in the system. It seems too obvious that it was because of his intent to get the 13th into the system that the 13th's leadership reneged on its earlier agreement with Ghost Legion.
You can't arbitrarily call "bull" on something that comes from multiple sources nor simply because it's the first you've heard of it. As I noted above, I frequent ThePaveHawker's stream. I did not during any of those many instances note any awareness on his part about other PMF's operating in the system. Yet, the leadership of multiple groups with Imperial affiliation (including 13th Legion) signed off on the effort of Ghost Legion to hold away in the system.
As Justinian noted, 13th leadership removed their support for Ghost Legion's effort at some point. This suggests they were aware of ThePaveHawker's efforts and elected to support him. That they evidently failed to notify him of Ghost Legion's efforts in the system is on their shoulders. Now, I don't know with any surety that 13th leadership made their intentions apparent to Ghost Legion leadership. If they did, they did so poorly as they didnt dissuade Ghost Legion from continuing their efforts. If they didn't, then, again, the outcome and the current situation is on them.