Holo-me and "Gender"

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Along with many in the community I watched the 2.3 The Commanders Beta Livestream yesterday, and was impressed with the depth of the character creation tools.

However, there is one major issue I have, and that is the use of the word “Gender” to refer to the Commander's body type.

It would seem that Frontier are confusing physical characteristics and gender here. I'm sure you can appreciate that for the trans players of Elite, having the outward physical appearance of your character referred to as gender might be unpleasant. Gender is not what your body looks like, it is the social, cultural and behavioural expectations with which you identify.

Thisis not the first time that Frontier has misunderstood gender. In the data entries about the Guardians, Ram Tah notes “This data offers more details about the physical appearance of the Guardians, specifically regarding genders. The similarities between humans and the Guardians continue to delight me. They had two distinct genders...”. Aside from the conflation of sex and gender here, more than two genders exist (and have done for centuries), particularly outside the Western tradition. Even if one were to divide humans intotwo biological sexes, this would fail to take into account the variations of sexual characteristics found in intersex people (estimated to be as many as 1 in 1000 births). I would hope that by 3303, such a binary and biological approach to sex and gender had been outgrown in most areas of civilised space.

There are a couple of simple changes that I think could be made that could be made to the Holo-me character creation tool to make it more accurate:



  • [*=1]Replacing “Gender” with “Body Type” and instead of “Male” and “Female” simply have “Type 1”, “Type 2” etc. This would have the added bonus of allowing for a greater variety of body shapes to be easily introduced at a later date.
    [*=1]Removing “Male” and “Female” prefix from the preset titles to just be “Preset 01” etc.

If this would create delays or problems then a compromise would be to rename “Gender” in the character creator to “Sex”.
 
This is probably a necro, but i think this is important. It made me personally uncomfortable having to choose a gender in this game. I don't really like that. I was actually happier and more comfortable with this game before i knew holo-me existed. So far, it's the only thing that really bugs me about the game. I keep my helmet on my avatar and it sorta hides it, but still it's weird. I don't think i'd enjoy walking around in this game with the character i currently have if that ever gets put into the game.
 
I'd also appreciate it if the female and male head types were not locked to the female and male body types. There's no reason that one particular set of facial features (and haircuts!?) should be exclusively tied to one body type. Plenty of men have "feminine" faces and vice versa.
 
As fare as I care, gender and sex are effectively interchangeable and mean the same thing.
 
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Along with many in the community I watched the 2.3 The Commanders Beta Livestream yesterday, and was impressed with the depth of the character creation tools.

However, there is one major issue I have, and that is the use of the word “Gender” to refer to the Commander's body type.

It would seem that Frontier are confusing physical characteristics and gender here. I'm sure you can appreciate that for the trans players of Elite, having the outward physical appearance of your character referred to as gender might be unpleasant. Gender is not what your body looks like, it is the social, cultural and behavioural expectations with which you identify.

Thisis not the first time that Frontier has misunderstood gender. In the data entries about the Guardians, Ram Tah notes “This data offers more details about the physical appearance of the Guardians, specifically regarding genders. The similarities between humans and the Guardians continue to delight me. They had two distinct genders...”. Aside from the conflation of sex and gender here, more than two genders exist (and have done for centuries), particularly outside the Western tradition. Even if one were to divide humans intotwo biological sexes, this would fail to take into account the variations of sexual characteristics found in intersex people (estimated to be as many as 1 in 1000 births). I would hope that by 3303, such a binary and biological approach to sex and gender had been outgrown in most areas of civilised space.

There are a couple of simple changes that I think could be made that could be made to the Holo-me character creation tool to make it more accurate:



  • [*=1]Replacing “Gender” with “Body Type” and instead of “Male” and “Female” simply have “Type 1”, “Type 2” etc. This would have the added bonus of allowing for a greater variety of body shapes to be easily introduced at a later date.
    [*=1]Removing “Male” and “Female” prefix from the preset titles to just be “Preset 01” etc.

If this would create delays or problems then a compromise would be to rename “Gender” in the character creator to “Sex”.
FD understand gender just fine. What you're talking about is gender identity, which is different.
 
Can we stop poisoning video games with real life politics? Thank you.

+1. And it was necro for a reason.
One OP and no responses till now. In this place that means something.
I take back some of my negative thoughts about the community here.
 
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This forced on political correctness makes me really really sad inside and sick... please go away from my video games, you ruined them enough at this point.
 
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If anyone gave a hoot this several months old thread would have had at least one reply at the time of posting.

Sheepie congrats on deep necro. I suggest if a gaming avatar choice causes you distress, you seek therapy. Sincerely.

Can we stop poisoning video games with real life politics? Thank you.

Gender identity and gender dysphoria aren't politics. They're states of being. They only become political when those that disagree with these states of being attempt to oppress, and the oppressed fight back. Whether you like it or not, trans people exist, have likely existed as long as the human race has been around and omg they play computer games to.
 
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Along with many in the community I watched the 2.3 The Commanders Beta Livestream yesterday, and was impressed with the depth of the character creation tools.

However, there is one major issue I have, and that is the use of the word “Gender” to refer to the Commander's body type.

It would seem that Frontier are confusing physical characteristics and gender here. I'm sure you can appreciate that for the trans players of Elite, having the outward physical appearance of your character referred to as gender might be unpleasant. Gender is not what your body looks like, it is the social, cultural and behavioural expectations with which you identify.

Thisis not the first time that Frontier has misunderstood gender. In the data entries about the Guardians, Ram Tah notes “This data offers more details about the physical appearance of the Guardians, specifically regarding genders. The similarities between humans and the Guardians continue to delight me. They had two distinct genders...”. Aside from the conflation of sex and gender here, more than two genders exist (and have done for centuries), particularly outside the Western tradition. Even if one were to divide humans intotwo biological sexes, this would fail to take into account the variations of sexual characteristics found in intersex people (estimated to be as many as 1 in 1000 births). I would hope that by 3303, such a binary and biological approach to sex and gender had been outgrown in most areas of civilised space.

There are a couple of simple changes that I think could be made that could be made to the Holo-me character creation tool to make it more accurate:



  • [*=1]Replacing “Gender” with “Body Type” and instead of “Male” and “Female” simply have “Type 1”, “Type 2” etc. This would have the added bonus of allowing for a greater variety of body shapes to be easily introduced at a later date.
    [*=1]Removing “Male” and “Female” prefix from the preset titles to just be “Preset 01” etc.

If this would create delays or problems then a compromise would be to rename “Gender” in the character creator to “Sex”.

You know what.. I am a compassionate person. I've worked with the homeless, I've worked with indigenous peoples, I don't use certain slang terms for certain adjectives. But there comes a point where even I have to draw a line - and line gets drawn at changing the very meaning of a common term to fit a socio-political agenda.

Gender is, like it or not, a synonym for what your chromosomes say you are, regardless of what you feel like you are, or what you want to be, or wish you were, or whatever your individual case might be.
Sex and Gender, in this case refer to the exact same thing. Now, I'm going to assume that, regardless of what your chromosomal status vs. physical status vs. mental status vs. spiritual status might be, you want most to be treated like a person.

If I'm wrong, and being treated like a person is not your objective, then stop reading here, and we can move to throwing heated insults in private.

I have to requote: "Gender is not what your body looks like, it is the social, cultural and behavioural expectations with which you identify."

If being treated like a person is your goal, however... forcing linguistic changes because you don't happen to like the way some people use a particular word, like Gender, is not going to help your cause. At best, it will annoy people. At worst, it will incite people to acts of violence.
Instead, take ownership of "Gender", and reinforce it's meaning as "a differentiation between chromosomal makeup." And stop confusing "Gender" and "Identity", and forcing that on everyone else. Pick your battles, fight the most important ones, and work with everyone else on such minor issues.

I think Frontier has done an exemplary job here, especially when it comes to Rah Tah's notes. And I would also suspect that, by 3303, medical science would have advanced so far as to have eliminated all chromosomal "disorders", so that there are no more XXY or XXX, or XYY or XXXY or any of those sorts of traits left in the human genome. Perhaps one shot, or one pill, or a vaccine given at birth, and everyone is born with the correct gender to match their identity, and this sort of discussion hasn't been had since 2017.
 
As fare as I care, gender and sex are effectively interchangeable and mean the same thing.
Actually "sex" is the correct term, but people decided to get language wrong and make things weird.

Now where's that "nobody cares that you are offended" shirt I've been meaning to buy.
 
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Peanut Butter Sandwichists must be represented also.

Today I'm crunchy. I might be smooth tomorrow though.

See, the can of worms has been opened already, and the arseholes who don't live with or understand gender dysphoria and lack empathy start with the tired old one liners. I hope this thread is locked asap.
 
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See, the can of worms has been opened already, and the arseholes who don't live with or understand gender dysphoria and lack empathy start with the tired old one liners. I hope this thread is locked asap.

[video=youtube;S4bmCvekW48]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4bmCvekW48[/video]
 
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