"Honey, you live on a spaceship." - realism in ED

[Luniticisi]

I keep seeing "It has to be realistic" appearing all over the place .. From how the space station docking will work to the old chestnut 'full Newtonian flight model' and "realistic" graphics ... I say, can't we just have a great space game and forget realism for a while .. I have no need to know the ins and outs of why space station docking is the way it is, as long as it works ... I don't care that fires and explosions happen in space, I want to hear the sounds of ships flying past me ..... as long as the game is fun to play, why care about realism?

I certainly don't play any other game and think .. that's unrealistic .. not playing anymore .. nor have I ever looked at any game development and thought .. "Well that couldn't happen!" and given up the idea of playing the game .. to me that is what games are for ... fun .. take it as seriously as you want but at the end of the day it is always going to be a game.

the only thing that will stop me playing a game is if it is 'excrement' and it doesn't look like a fun game to play ... Elite Dangerous looks like it will be fun to play ... no need to nit-pick slight flaws in physics or 'realism' .. just enjoy the game, lose yourself for a while .. and have fun.



"Honey, you live on a spaceship."

anyone agree?

 

[Slawkenbergius]

anyone agree?

I see the realism aspect as an important part of the aesthetic, but not the whole of the aesthetic. There's shiploads of silly sci-fi I'll let pass in order for the game to be fun, but where the design can incorporate a bit of hard sci-fi, I'm all for it. The lack of fantasy artificial gravity is a big draw in my eyes. The problems it creates and the careful thinking around them fascinate me. Then again, the silly stuff like Princess Lucky and going big-game hunting for alien 'dinosaurs' also brings a smile to my face. And the darker slavery stuff too...

So for me, the devs have got the balance right between appealing to my hard sci-fi sensibilities, without going too drab and dour on the enterprise.

 

[Luniticisi]

I do not want silly or childish aspects added to the game .. I played Elite in '84 .. .. so I (like a few people here ) am old .. but it's the nit-picking at things that gets to me .. we are going to have a Realistic galaxy with huge systems with orbiting planets/bodies ... tons of thought going into how things work (will work) and I am all for that ... It is just that I am not that bothered if some game-play aspects cannot be explained by physics or logic ... if it makes the game more fun to play then add it ... enjoy it ... and again .. have fun!

 

[Andrew Sayers]

I agree with you guys that realism often needs to take a backseat to gameplay, but looking at the game from a novel perspective can dig up issues everyone cares about.

Back in the early days of the DDF, Toebs would often go way out on a tangent in the name of consistency (essentially realism), but in doing so would usually uncover at least the kernel of an important criticism. The key is knowing when to take your kernel of an idea, drop the excess realism, and bring it back to a core gameplay argument everyone can subscribe to.

If you're still out there Toebs, I for one would love to hear more from you if you could put up with the frustration of that second half of the job.

 

[Captain N]

Elite isn't, and never really was realistic in any meaningful sense. It's pure space opera, plain and simple.

But as said already, looking at things from the perspective of "how would this really work?" can lead to novel ideas. It can also aid immersion by producing narrative meat around the skeleton of gameplay mechanics that might otherwise end up rather dry and mathematical, like in so many other games out there.

We've also already seen the same Star Wars / Trek thing done to death a million times over. It doesn't hurt for Elite to differentiate itself, and taking cues from the more "serious" kind of sci-fi out there.

Serious I think is the keyword. Maybe believability. People say they want the graphics to look "realistic" because they don't know what else to say, but really it's just that they don't want it to be all silly like Jetsons or Futurama. They want to be able to immerse themselves into the game world and not be shaken out of it by all kinds of jokey stuff or people traveling through tubes looking like cartoon caricatures.

 

[Mobius]

im with you, those who want realism obviously didn't like the original game. if you want realism go outside and enjoy the real world. I have no issue with the game looking real but when people go on about realism I just cant help but think what about fun gameplay, freelancer for me was a fun space game, elite frontier was a fun space game, but when you start talking about realism then I start thinking X-Series, it may be an in-depth game but all the fun has been removed from it. I've mentioned it before and it was also mentioned in brabens video diary" what happens when you try to cater for everyone's taste at the cost of fun gameplay"

 

[Styggron]

Whilst I can certainly understand people's viewpoints on here, I agree with the overwhelming principle that it must be fun.

Being from a Science background I LOVE it when things are acurate I love it when things work and I also perfetly understand there needs to be leeway.

I think FD are doing a fine job at balance and there will be something in there for us all. :smilie:

 

[Associat0r]

im with you, those who want realism obviously didn't like the original game.

This is not true, unrealistic space was the only thing you could do with the hardware at the time, there was no alternative and many people who want realism in ED liked the original too.

if you want realism go outside and enjoy the real world. I have no issue with the game looking real but when people go on about realism I just cant help but think what about fun gameplay, freelancer for me was a fun space game, elite frontier was a fun space game, but when you start talking about realism then I start thinking X-Series, it may be an in-depth game but all the fun has been removed from it. I've mentioned it before and it was also mentioned in brabens video diary" what happens when you try to cater for everyone's taste at the cost of fun gameplay"

The X-Series weren't anything remotely realistic wrt space, FE2 is the only game in your list that was somewhat realistic with the way it portrayed space to some extent.
I already stated it elsewhere on the forums, there are already a lot of other space games out there that are purely about fun, but in no way represent space in a satisfactory manner if all you want is fun there is no need to wait for ED, but ED offers much more than fun, it first and foremost portrays space realistically and builds a fun game around that.

 

[Gelbrock]

Im crossing my fingers and hoping the techno geeks that make this game (geeks are cool of course) have got the fun part of the game in the bag and now can focus on the 'slightly' less important parts of the game like realism and graphics.

As long as the bar maids in Lave Station have three ******* and the band plays the star wars cantina music when you enter.... Im in my happy place....

 

[Susimetsa]

I certainly don't play any other game and think .. that's unrealistic .. not playing anymore .. nor have I ever looked at any game development and thought .. "Well that couldn't happen!" and given up the idea of playing the game .. to me that is what games are for ... fun .. take it as seriously as you want but at the end of the day it is always going to be a game.

Part of the fun - for me - is the realism. I've ignored MANY games for unrealisting art design (many teen-oriented RPGs for example, have idiotically big swords and other weapons and impractical armour etc.). Heck, even in Skyrim, I purposefully avoid wearing any of the more fantastical armour (dragon bone, glass, dwarf etc.).

 

[Susimetsa]

I already stated it elsewhere on the forums, there are already a lot of other space games out there that are purely about fun, but in no way represent space in a satisfactory manner if all you want is fun there is no need to wait for ED, but ED offers much more than fun, it first and foremost portrays space realistically and builds a fun game around that.

This! I would give you rep, but apparently I've done so too recently and must wait a while. :/

 

[Andrew Sayers]

Just a little thought about realism...

For a post earlier today, I needed to fire up FFE and see how long it took to get from Earth to Mars. I'd already spent longer than I wanted tracking down an appropriate saved game, so as soon as traffic control gave me clearance I was ready to quit the game with the answer I needed.

Then I noticed something I hadn't spotted before - halfway up Olympus Mons, there's a lake feeding into a river that snakes down through Olympus Village and off into the distance. Despite the indistinct blue blob flickering on and off due to bugs in the graphics code, I felt the need to fly over and trace the whole path of the river. It gave me a certain satisfaction to think that even on a terraformed world in the 33rd century, cities still cling to water sources.

Those little acts of exploration are the sort of gameplay I've never seen in any other game, and it's the sort of realism I'm strongly looking forward to in ED.

 

[Michael Brookes]

It's worth bearing in mind that there is a difference between realism and plausible, but we certainly intend for the game to be fun, while remaining plausible as much as possible and realistic where it makes sense to do so.

Michael

 

[Exaga]

Glad to hear it.

 

[Luniticisi]

It's worth bearing in mind that there is a difference between realism and plausible, but we certainly intend for the game to be fun, while remaining plausible as much as possible and realistic where it makes sense to do so.

Michael

Thanks Michael, that is exactly what I want to hear ..

 

[AtomicHorror]

I wonder if the sides in the realism argument divide roughly along the lines of those who played Elite first and those who started on FE2? I don't know.

I started on FE2. I liked FFE as well. The realism was one of the major appeals for me. I now play a fair bit of Kerbal Space Program, which despite cartoon graphics and tongue-in-cheek humour, is even more realistic in its depiction of space travel.

My expectations were changed by these games, which means that glaring breaks in plausibility will reduce my enjoyment of ED. I'm sure I'm not alone, and that is why the OP is seeing "It has to be realistic" appearing all over the place. We're not nit-picking, we want to enjoy the game. We don't want our suspension of disbelief to be undermined.

 

[Zog Oakley]

as long as the game is fun to play, why care about realism?

I agree - if i wanted realism id be an astronaut - this is supposed to be fun for an hour or so a week

Z

 

[AtomicHorror]

I agree - if i wanted realism id be an astronaut - this is supposed to be fun for an hour or so a week

Z

So why are we asking for a game with 400 million star systems in an accurately modelled galaxy?

 

[Susimetsa]

My expectations were changed by these games, which means that glaring breaks in plausibility will reduce my enjoyment of ED. I'm sure I'm not alone, and that is why the OP is seeing "It has to be realistic" appearing all over the place. We're not nit-picking, we want to enjoy the game. We don't want our suspension of disbelief to be undermined.

This also. We know more physics in this day and age and too implausible deviations from it will destroy any sense of immersion that you might have. We don't like playing shooters where the hero can jump 5 metre leaps (without explanation), so why would we like our space sims to be any less accurate?

 

[Luniticisi]

The only thing that I don't want in the game are mechanics that, whilst incredibly realistic, detract from the game play and my enjoyment of the game.
For me ... In my personal opinion ... not having a go at anyone ... or any-ones own personal preferences (hope that covers it )
I think that if Frontier E2 and FFE had a more 'Elite' planes in space flight model (fine add all the gravity effects, Newtonian 'to a point' physics ... I'm all for fully controllable thrusters and the like for realistic flight mode ... turn off main engines spin the ship around whilst still moving in the original direction.. they were doing that in Freelancer, and add all of the bells and whistles from the sequels) IMHO, Both sequels to Elite would have sold far more copy's and would have been enjoyed more by the masses ... and both would have STILL been fantastic games.

From my understanding of what has appeared on these forums and the Dev vids ... that is what we seem to be getting .. limited speeds, fighter pilot style combat and I am very happy about that.