How about an endangered species conservation DLC that includes rare dolphins that must be bred and cared for with special buildings and researchers?

[Davic]

People really like dolphins but it's possibly that due to the controversy surrounding them, my best guess is that Frontier probably won't feature them.

As mentioned in this reddit post suggesting endangered animals in future DLCs, there are two dolphin species that are critically endangered on this list (with populations less than 100 worldwide each.)

Has Frontier considered doing a special endangered species DLC that might feature these two dolphin species, as well some other rare animals? The requirements for these animals could be quite different. They could require special research centers with dedicated researchers, specialized habitats, possibly a catch and release program, high tech breeding centers, specialized educators, etc. In this way Planet Zoo could preserve the conservation and animal welfare philosophy of Planet Zoo but also sell a lot of DLC to the many, many players who still would love to see dolphins.

Good idea? Bad idea? Would love to hear any feedback.

 

[peafowl]

I don’t want cetaceans in any way

 

[Cool Cats and Kittens]

I don't think this DLC would make many players happy. Players who are against cetaceans in captivity won't fall for this conservation masquerade and reject this DLC. A lot of players who want to build a delphinarium would prefer the cetaceans that are keep in captivity like the Bootle nosed or the Commerson's dolphin.

Dolphinarium would introduce a lot of interesting mechanics and challenges. But I doubt that cetaceans will be added to this game

 

[LN]

I'm not interested in having cetaceans in the game.

 

[FoxyDee]

While I am not as opposed to cetaceans as many people around here, they are not really that commmon in zoos. And I mean zoos that are not combined with aquariums, which is what our game currently is, just zoo. I dont think they should take a priority over dozens of other animals we are missing.

I am also not sure if it would fit the game. Also, the requirments would probably be so big, so it would be unsusable for many people anyways, just like polar bears.

 

[LN]

Bare in mind, governments are slowly banning activities related to Dolphins and whales, so I don't think we'll see them in this game.

 

[Orque41]

Tout à fait d'accord avec vous, je ne veux pas non plus de cétacés, même si j'aime beaucoup les cétacés.

 

[NL_Mutso]

Bare in mind, governments are slowly banning activities related to Dolphins and whales, so I don't think we'll see them in this game.

A while ago I mentioned something similar that France are banning certain aspects of keeping dolphins/orcas. Not sure if it was only banning breeding or multiple things.
I know it has become an issue for environmental parties in the Netherlands, sparked by France. Wouldn't be surprised if multiple European countries will adopt this policy as well.
Don't think they will add these animals , from a certain POV this could be negative publicity.

Also I don't think conservation of endangered species is something that is always part of zoo conservation efforts. Some species just need help in their natural environment, they don't do well in captivity. I've seen a lot of people comment,"if the species are endangered or need conservation it fits a zoo game"
There are other options for conservation of those species. Laws prohibiting hunting/wildlife parks/sanctuaries/national parks.
There a good reasons why some species are not found in any zoo in the world, therefore I think not a good idea to add them to a zoo game.

I'm not against cetaceans in (RL) zoos or anything like that. But I understand people are against ceteceans in captivity and don't like the idea of adding this to the game.

 

[Davic]

Thanks for your replies everyone! There are often requests for dolphins on Reddit. It seems the desires of the players tend to be quite different there, it's good to know the differing opinions across the board.

 

[jcp011c]

I personally wouldn't have any problems with it, but I don't think well get it for several different reasons (and I see you already replied to the above answers, just throwing these thoughts in as well)

1. If the game is going for a conservation theme for animal choices, these animals choices don't really fit with that theme. I'm not saying that some fully marine animals wouldn't work, but from a conservation standpoint, cetaceans in general are problematic
2. Given the size of the packs and the fact we're probably set for only 3 packs for a year for somewhere between 1-3 more years, I don't think that Frontier can possibly deliver on a satisfying number of marine animals. I think they're going to have problems doing that with just land and maybe air based animals along with partially marine (or as I call them, coastal) animals. Throwing the world of fully marine animals into that would only further lead to problems.
3. Most marine animals aren't in zoos. They are in aquariums. I make that distinction because I'm suspecting that somewhere along the way, we will see a Planet Aquarium. As with point 1, I don't know if they'll go the cetacean route, but I think that's where we'll end up with a lot of fully marine animals
4. Space requirements and the game/map. I think this is fairly self explanatory, how much of the map would we end up using just to satisfy space requirements for the larger cetaceans. Quite a lot more than we're probably realizing.

 

[NZFanatic]

A lot of players, especially on Reddit, make the comparison to Zoo Tycoon and see Planet Zoo as a sequel. A lot of the argument comes from that point of view - Zoo Tycoon did it twice, so Planet Zoo should do it, too. It's flawed reasoning because Zoo Tycoon never paid more than lip service to zoo realities, whereas Planet Zoo is supposed to be a realistic (as possible) simulation.

The arguments around the ethics of keeping cetaceans in captivity have been had many times already. Some diehards won't accept that reality or think that because it's a game it shouldn't matter. I won't go over all of that again, and besides, it's already been said in this thread specifically probably a lot more politely than I can muster.

The concept of an Endangered Species Pack DLC is a good one, however, if we can leave out the idea of including marine animals. The theme itself is broad and lends itself to some unique animals without being restricted to one area of the globe or one biome, so I like it a lot.

 

[Tuky]

I would love this
Planet Zoo, im my opinion, has such a great opportunity to teach about rare(/r), lesser known animals and yes, also animals that cant be kept in real life zoos or maybe shouldnt be kept. And those cetaceans would also be a nice choice, since many people really dont even know about them. And they are techincally not too impossible to keep in real life captivity either, unlike blue whales or sperm whales(which I also wouldnt like in the game, by the way)
Sure, if I could pick 2 cetaceans for PZ I would take the orca (no suprise here, I guess) and the bottlenose dolphin. But I would pretty much take all dolphins^^
Release programms depends how you would mean them to take place. I had a simillar idea a long time ago. Frontier could make a career mode where you would have to take in rescued cetaceans and nurse them back to health and then release them back (there could also be some who could be unreleasebale, just as in real life) and of course bulid a succesful zoo around it for the funding. However I would not like to be forced to release them in all other game modes. Just as with every other animals this should be the players choice.

And I still disagree with the claim that adding cetaceans (no matter which) would go against the game and its message. Zoological associations like AZA/WAZA/EAZA/VdZ are not against keeping cetaceans captive at all. They pretty much are saying the same things about it as Frontier is about PZ (conversation, education and such). And the zoos who are keeping dolphins (like Zoo Duisburg) would also highly disagree. Now no one has to agree with them, but that is the truth. Thus if Frontier was to ask either of those association or any zoo the keeps dolphins about it, they would get another point of view.

Also my opinion is still that PZ would actually be good alternative from seeing those animal in RL captivity aswell as even whale watching, which also has some bad sides. Sure, it wont be the same as really seeing a real, living one, but its still good for those of us who cant or dont want to see them in captivity and/or in the wild.
And in the case of the cetaceans mentioned in the link, could even make people aware they exists and the problems they face in the wild and make people interested to find out how to help them in real life.

As someone who would really love to have orcas/dolphins in the game, I find it quite saddening that some people have the extreme view to even deny those of us that would love to have them even 1-2 animals spots. Sure, I could give a huge list with dolphins I would love in the game, but just give me an orca and I would be the happiest person alive. And maybe a bottlenose dolphin and PZ would be like "complete" for me. And I guess many others of the "pro-cetacean in PZ" players would also be very happy with just those 2.
But since sadly some people have their views against dolphins in PZ paired with lowkey threats (like "Frontier will get backlash if they add cetaceans" - and from whom would they get it? Right..) I see the chances for any cetaceans gets lower and lower. It does honestly bother me a bit when I see those people say they didnt even play PZ for months, while I still play it daily. What difference would it make for them, then? For me it would mean the world.
And worse, some people would even want Frontier not to add any cetaceans in hypothetical new games separated from PZ. Even though Frontier could advertise such a game different from how they did with PZ ect. It wouldnt even need to be a "Planet" game, though it could be. Not that I think they will ever make such a game, but it still makes me really bitter and heartbroken, honestly. No one would force them to buy such a game in the first place.
(I know Frontier never promised them or anything and its okay if others dont want them in the game, but its this kind of backlash and boycott threats, I already used to see, that bother me. Its a kind of unfair tactic to make sure Frontier never adds them.)

Cetaceans are awesome and yes there are strong opinions against keeping them in captivity in RL (aswell as for, actually), but they are not like holy that you couldnt add a virtual pixel version of them to any Zoo/Aquarium/Park game anymore. (Wildlife Park 3 did it in just 2017 and there was no backlash whatsoever, by the way. Sadly the game mechanics and graphics are rather bad and its not really fun, so nothing I could play anymore since I got addicted to PZ.)

Anyways, I am still always happy when I see other people wishing/request for any kind of cetacean in PZ. So this theread is great, in my opinion
Because that means even if we may never get them in PZ, Frontier (and/or maybe other new/indie devs) sees there is actually a demand for those animals aswell and maybe in a few years they will do a new game after all or have them in a possible PZ2. I do know the chances are low (lower than even getting them in PZ, I think), but I am still a dreamer, after all. And now after having the beautiful diving animals in PZ (and I am proud to say that I always had the faith the devs could make it work), my desire for orcas got even bigger. Just imagine how awesome PZ-orcas and dolphins would look like

 

[NL_Mutso]

Thanks for your replies everyone! There are often requests for dolphins on Reddit. It seems the desires of the players tend to be quite different there, it's good to know the differing opinions across the board.

You are right about that one.
I think NZfanatic is right about the ZT thing. imo a lot of requested features/dlc etc. all comes from experience with those games.
Requests for "exotic" animals are more frequent on Reddit compared to this forum, which tends to go with more "common" animals in captivity. (at least that's how I experience it)

It's a never-ending discussion. Some people who are against cetaceans in captivity, are also against every depiction of captive cetaceans in any media.
It's a 50-60 year old discussion and it's a principle matter for people.
Since the U.K. was one of Europe's first countries making "cetaceans in captivity" nearly impossible and with the increasing number of countries who ban this, i think chances are very slim.

 

[iloveyourzoos]

I suspect this may be a case of knowing your audience. The audience in the UK, where no zoos have had these for over 25 years (and where Frontier is located, of course), may be very different than the audience in a city/country that has had cetaceans in their zoo for decades. Similarly, the audience in these forums where realism plays such a large part (which i love, by the way, which is why I'm here to learn) may be different than the audience on reddit or for the game as a whole.

I wonder where people would fall if those worlds and playing styles started to collide in a way that was harder to dismiss. For example, if we started to see realistic recreations of the zoos that do actually have cetaceans: Barcelona, Duisburg, Nuremburg, Kolmarden, Attica, Nanning, Lisbon, Brookfield, Indianapolis, El Pinar, etc. I'm talking fully accurate, highly detailed, front and backstage, AZA/WAZA-researched, brick by brick, highly realistic recreations with true-to-life conservation efforts/strengths/failings/considerations -- that suddenly have a big empty hole in them for the missing infraorder of animals.

For many, there would still be a real-world moral imperative (that these zoos shouldn't house these animals, even if they actually do). I respect that. But it would at least clarify the issue based upon that, rather than infighting among different playing styles. This, I think, is what the OP was trying to do by suggesting the endangered species route -- assuming that crux of the objection was about conservation. But they misjudged the audience. From what I've seen in these forums, the real-life simulation argument may be stronger than the conservation one with this particular subset of the PZ audience. (Although, again, even realism and accurate simulation may not stand up as reasons for those who have a strong moral objection to this.)

 

[markun]

I wonder where people would fall if those worlds and playing styles started to collide in a way that was harder to dismiss. For example, if we started to see realistic recreations of the zoos that do actually have cetaceans: Barcelona, Duisburg, Nuremburg, Kolmarden, Attica, Nanning, Lisbon, Brookfield, Indianapolis, El Pinar, etc. I'm talking fully accurate, highly detailed, front and backstage, AZA/WAZA-researched, brick by brick, highly realistic recreations with true-to-life conservationefforts/strengths/failings/considerations -- that suddenly have a big empty hole in them for the missing infraorder of animals.

I’d say it’s no different to any other missing kinds of animals (except that it’s highly unlikely that we’ll get them) and it will make little difference to Frontier’s decisions on whether to include them or not.

 

[NL_Mutso]

I wonder where people would fall if those worlds and playing styles started to collide in a way that was harder to dismiss. For example, if we started to see realistic recreations of the zoos that do actually have cetaceans: Barcelona, Duisburg, Nuremburg, Kolmarden, Attica, Nanning, Lisbon, Brookfield, Indianapolis, El Pinar, etc. I'm talking fully accurate, highly detailed, front and backstage, AZA/WAZA-researched, brick by brick, highly realistic recreations with true-to-life conservation efforts/strengths/failings/considerations -- that suddenly have a big empty hole in them for the missing infraorder of animals.

Don't think it's a big deal either. People will still be able to build that building/habitat and replace that species with another one.
Also don't think PZ will ever be complete enough to recreate a specific zoo fully accurate.

Pretty sure that Barcelona doesn't have dolphins anymore. One of my "local" zoos - Harderwijk Dolphinarium has them, also got Harbour Porpoises but usually just for recovery and the ones who are still there aren't capable of returning to the wild.

This, I think, is what the OP was trying to do by suggesting the endangered species route -- assuming that crux of the objection was about conservation. But they misjudged the audience

I think a large portion of wildlife conservation in zoos is breeding and with cetaceans; captive breeding is a big issue in a lot of countries. Especially with the diving discussion of the current animals - imagine the diving requirements with dolphins or killer whales.

It's an interesting discussion, even when it's on the news - most people have a strong opinion about it.

 

[Lea_G]

The ethical questions aside (+ I personally don't need those animals in the game)

Has Frontier considered doing a special endangered species DLC that might feature these two dolphin species, as well some other rare animals? The requirements for these animals could be quite different. They could require special research centers with dedicated researchers, specialized habitats, possibly a catch and release program, high tech breeding centers, specialized educators, etc. In this way Planet Zoo could preserve the conservation and animal welfare philosophy of Planet Zoo but also sell a lot of DLC to the many, many players who still would love to see dolphins.

Good idea? Bad idea? Would love to hear any feedback.

I think a pack dedicated to (other) endangered species would possibly work well, but those "special requirement" sound too complicated to implement into the game. I think that would be an incredible effort to do on the technical level but also increase the management to an amount many players probably wouldn't follow.

 

[Aero-Bubbles]

I mean I don’t like the idea of having dolphins and whales in captivity for human based reasons. However close to where I live, there is a rescue, it’s in sea pens, so, no tanks, and these animals can’t be released for a variety of reasons, they are unfit and would die if they were released. Still they are in the ocean and have quite a bit of room, they aren’t bred, because 1) that’s no the purpose of the rescue and 2) there’s a ban on it. Anyways. These animals get to live in their “natural” environment while people get to learn about them and somewhat see them

If say, we had a beach map and instead of trees and hills in the distance it was the ocean, and it took up at least a large chunk of the playable map, and you kept rescues only, and they are unable to breed, it could be meeting people halfway on the “don’t want and do want” no glass walls, just correct sea pens and a large amount of space.

There will always be rescues, whether you like it or not, but hopefully the tanks will be emptied for the animals being kept for human based reasons

Of course, there are limitations on this too, like what marine mammals can live in what type/temperature of water. I guess depending on the beach map location would also dictate what marine mammals could be rescued by your facility

 

[Lea_G]

That sounds fine, just like a totally different game/gameplay in my opinion

 

[markun]

That sounds fine, just like a totally different game/gameplay in my opinion

I agree, it would be a marine mammal rescue game rather than Planet Zoo.