How can we do criminal missions in notoriety systems?

Scaletho

Scaletho
I'm been doing "criminal" missions (heist, theft, assassination, extermination, etc.) exclusively on Anarchy systems. On anarchy faction, you got no fines or Notoriety.

But I wonder, considering the buggy state of on foot Notoriety, how can we do "criminal" missions in a Federal,Alliance, etc systems?

I mean, missions DON'T protect you to get Notoriety. This is absurd, considering you are doing a job for a Faction. You should get the Faction's protection.

I already did criminal mission activities in Federal or Alliance settlements, and confirm that we got notoriety anyway. Even in stealth mode.

Considering the reality of Odyssey (a release that put HUGE emphasis on "criminal" or combat missions, even creating a new "Mercenary" rank), I really don't understand this.

Anarchy systems are just a small part of the Galaxy. Most of populated systems are organized as Corporations, Democracy, Cooperative, etc...

Odyssey is a shallow game. If we are unable to do criminal missions, what remains? Trade, mining, etc. all missions present in Horizons already.

So, what gives?
 

ferus

ferus
I am trying to figure out the same.
There absolutely should be some stealth mechanic that would prevent Notoriety from going higher.

I am currently wanted in many systems because I can't pay off my bounties (some of which I accumulated on missions) because my Notoriety is too high.
So I go to another system, do a bunch of missions there... and of course gain more Notoriety because the C&P mechanics don't make sense.
It's a magic circle which can be only stopped by not doing anything illegal for as long as you are notorious.

And even if you manage to get your Notoriety to 0-1 and pay off your bounties it's just a matter of time when it all begins anew because you gain Notoriety for any kill (doesn't matter if you are undetected in a bar at the end of the universe) and even on missions.
Not. Fun.
 

alexzk

A
ferus said:
There absolutely should be some stealth mechanic that would prevent Notoriety from going higher.
Click to expand...
There are some:
1. It seems each kill gives +30 mins on 1 notority. Once you're at 1.5 hr timer (3 kills) -> next level of notority. Can't prove, but I feel so.
2. Scan them, if NPC has bounty - you can safe kill it.
3. APEX ignores notority.

So yeh, with extra care you can do such missions.
 

ferus

ferus
alexzk said:
There are some:
1. It seems each kill gives +30 mins on 1 notority. Once you're at 1.5 hr timer (3 kills) -> next level of notority. Can't prove, but I feel so.
2. Scan them, if NPC has bounty - you can safe kill it.
3. APEX ignores notority.

So yeh, with extra care you can do such missions.
Click to expand...
Thanks, but these are not stealth mechanics.

EDIT: What do you mean by APEX ignores notoriety? How does that help in missions?
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Scaletho said:
I mean, missions DON'T protect you to get Notoriety. This is absurd, considering you are doing a job for a Faction. You should get the Faction's protection.
Click to expand...

I agree there is a lot wrong from what i've read (note, only read, not experienced, since not playing Odyssey until things improve in terms of performance). However, i don't see how a faction can protect you from noteriety if you are going up against another faction's assets.

Its like James Bond killing people in Paris and MI6 saying to the French "No, don't kill him, we're protecting him"
 

ferus

ferus
Agony_Aunt said:
I agree there is a lot wrong from what i've read (note, only read, not experienced, since not playing Odyssey until things improve in terms of performance). However, i don't see how a faction can protect you from noteriety if you are going up against another faction's assets.

Its like James Bond killing people in Paris and MI6 saying to the French "No, don't kill him, we're protecting him"
Click to expand...
As far as I know it works this way in Horizons... I haven't done a lot of massacre missions lately but I think you did not gain notoriety while doing one of those.
 

ferus

ferus
alexzk said:
It's simulator. Meaning it has no "mechanics", it simulates real life. There is no "stealth" in RL except walking behind.
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If I decide to kill someone in an empty room in a deserted settlement in the middle of a desert I don't immediately get a bounty on my head in RL.
(I did not try it but I would say it works this way).

And ED stopped being a simulator a looong way ago.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
ferus said:
As far as I know it works this way in Horizons... I haven't done a lot of massacre missions lately but I think you did not gain notoriety while doing one of those.
Click to expand...

scratches head

I'm not one for doing illegal missions, so I can't say for sure. I'd be surprised if that was the case.... but there again, consistency isn't FD's strong suit.
 

Drelthar

Drelthar
Agony_Aunt said:
scratches head

I'm not one for doing illegal missions, so I can't say for sure. I'd be surprised if that was the case.... but there again, consistency isn't FD's strong suit.
Click to expand...
It is the case, you don't get notoriety for mission targets in Horizons (People complained)
 

Scaletho

Scaletho
alexzk said:
There are some:
1. It seems each kill gives +30 mins on 1 notority. Once you're at 1.5 hr timer (3 kills) -> next level of notority. Can't prove, but I feel so.
2. Scan them, if NPC has bounty - you can safe kill it.
3. APEX ignores notority.

So yeh, with extra care you can do such missions.
Click to expand...
My friend, you still get notoriety. That's my point, this shouldn't happen in missions.
 

Drelthar

Drelthar
Vandaahl said:
No, its not consistent when you murder on contract in a ship.
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Yeah, sensibly and intuitively, you should get notoriety when assasinating a politician, who has no bounties. Doesn't really matter if you are being paid by someone to do the assasinating... it's still an action that makes you notorius.

Killing Pirates, or other criminals, doesn't matter if a mission or not, shouldn't get you notoriety, cos, they are criminals and you're just claiming a bounty.

Doesn;'t work like that in a ship though because people complained they were getting notoriety "just for doing a mission"

I never got why the fact you're doing a mission should matter but... They need to pick one or the other and stick to it.
 

Screemonster

Screemonster
Drelthar said:
Yeah, sensibly and intuitively, you should get notoriety when assasinating a politician, who has no bounties. Doesn't really matter if you are being paid by someone to do the assasinating... it's still an action that makes you notorius.

Killing Pirates, or other criminals, doesn't matter if a mission or not, shouldn't get you notoriety, cos, they are criminals and you're just claiming a bounty.

Doesn;'t work like that in a ship though because people complained they were getting notoriety "just for doing a mission"

I never got why the fact you're doing a mission should matter but... They need to pick one or the other and stick to it.
Click to expand...
The reason notoriety isn't given for doing missions is that having a few points of notoriety very rapidly pushes the bounties you accrue for doing the mission way above what the mission actually pays, and the current C&P system seems to be designed by someone allergic to the idea that people not have to pay out eventually.

Pre-C&P you could lie low or move elsewhere until the bounty timer elapsed and it'd go away eventually, but under the current system, a "murder 12 cruise liners" massacre mission would max out your notoriety and leave you with a bounty of millions - in most medium ships doing a murder will land you with a bounty of a million a pop at notoriety 10. Doing it in a corvette you're looking at bounties of 5M per kill.

So in order to make criminal missions not be a complete nonstarter, they'd have three options:
  1. Actually boost the pay of criminal missions so they're worth the massive bounties you'd incur carrying them out.
  2. Have bounties actually go away through some means other than being forced to pay them off.
  3. Just make mission targets not give notoriety so the bounties don't get big.
They went with option 3 because god forbid criminal missions actually pay well or people not be forced to pay eventually for accruing a big bounty.
 

ferus

ferus
BTW, do we get Notoriety for killing scavengers? I haven't been able to test it reliably as my Notoriety seems to fluctuate all over the place.
 
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